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IG: Some Emails on Clinton's Server Were Beyond Top Secret

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Too fabricated to be taken seriously.
lol Okay. So you're fine with Hillary maintaining her own server at her home. It's a fabricated scandal.

Let's assume she becomes our next President. Should she also have the right to maintain her own private server for all official White House business? If not, why not? We've already established that she has the right to exclusively control her correspondence without being subject to Congressional subpoena or Freedom of Information Act request - shouldn't she also have the right to extend that to the White House?
 
lol Okay. So you're fine with Hillary maintaining her own server at her home. It's a fabricated scandal.

Let's assume she becomes our next President. Should she also have the right to maintain her own private server for all official White House business? If not, why not? We've already established that she has the right to exclusively control her correspondence without being subject to Congressional subpoena or Freedom of Information Act request - shouldn't she also have the right to extend that to the White House?

You appear to be having the same issues as others and lack the ability to understand the difference between something that's not right and something that is illegal.
Otherwise I have no idea why you and other continuously bring up this straw man that we support Hillary having her own personal server for government business. We don't support it but that doesn't make what she did illegal.

But you already know this because it's been explained before.
 
The inspector general appeared to be of the opinion that she had information from the intelligence community. I agree that many things are only classified in the aggregate because collectively they point to something that individually is benign, they teach us to be aware of that. State department methodology might be different, and more crap as a result. I don't think that's all that is at play here. I find it interesting that Sid, who appears to have exactly 0 intelligence credentials in his CV and no discernible connection to the Sudan managed to generate a confidential report about a conversation that allegedly happened in the Sudan the day before. Also, I don't believe that he's officially affiliated with the State department so he probably shouldn't have been using their classified but not yet assets either.

SNIP
Couple interesting things about old Brother Sid. First, we absolutely know that his account was compromised, so hackers knew exactly where our Secretary of State's server resided. (But that's okay; since we don't know anything about it's security, we don't know that it isn't the greatest in the world.) Second, it's from Brother Sid's stash that we absolutely know Hillary did not do what she said she did, since we have emails between them that Hillary did not provide and some she provided with some material removed. And one more for a bonus: If she had used the State system, we'd already know who is “sbwhoeop” because we could track the email header.

And in case I haven't said it before: Thank you for your service.
 
Legality aside, why did she do it? I don't think any rational person buys the convenience excuse, and the longer this plays out the more people lose any confidence in her. In the general election it won't be like Bernie who for whatever reason doesn't call her out on it, the republican nominee whoever that will be will absolutely hammer her on the issue. Even if nothing becomes of it, it still shows extremely poor judgement.
 
You appear to be having the same issues as others and lack the ability to understand the difference between something that's not right and something that is illegal.
Otherwise I have no idea why you and other continuously bring up this straw man that we support Hillary having her own personal server for government business. We don't support it but that doesn't make what she did illegal.

But you already know this because it's been explained before.
Gotcha. You don't support what she did, but you do support her. Sort of hate the sin, love the sinner.

As far as breaking the law:

http://nypost.com/2015/09/27/yes-hillary-clinton-broke-the-law/
Since there has been much evasion and obfuscation about Hillary Rodham Clinton’s email use, it seems appropriate to step back and simply review what we know in light of the law. It’s also instructive to compare Clinton’s situation to arguably the most famous case of our time related to the improper handling of classified materials, namely, the case of Gen. David Petraeus.

Instead of turning his journals — so-called “black books” — over to the Defense Department or CIA when he left either of those organizations, Petraeus kept them at his home — an unsecure location — and provided them to his paramour/biographer, Paula Broadwell, at another private residence. (None of the classified information in the black books was used in his biography.)

On April 23, Petraeus pled guilty to a single misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or materials under 18 USC §1924. Many in the intelligence community were outraged at the perceived “slap on the wrist” he received, at a time when the Justice Department was seeking very strong penalties against lesser officials for leaks to the media.

According to the law, there are five elements that must be met for a violation of the statute, and they can all be found in section (a) of the statute: “(1) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, (2) by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, (3) knowingly removes such documents or materials (4) without authority and (5) with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location [shall be guilty of this offense].”

The Petraeus case meets those conditions. Does Clinton’s?

Clinton originally denied that any of her emails contained classified information, but soon abandoned that claim. So far, 150 emails containing classified information have been identified on her server, including two that included information determined to be Top Secret.

She then fell back on the claim that none of the emails in question was “marked classified” at the time she was dealing with them. The marking is not what makes the material classified; it’s the nature of the information itself. As secretary of state, Clinton knew this, and in fact she would have been re-briefed annually on this point as a condition of maintaining her clearance to access classified information.

Then there’s location. Clinton knowingly set up her email system to route 100 percent of her emails to and through her unsecured server (including keeping copies stored on the server). She knowingly removed such documents and materials from authorized locations (her authorized devices and secure government networks) to an unauthorized location (her server).

Two examples demonstrate this point.

When Clinton would draft an email based on classified information, she was drafting that email on an authorized Blackberry, iPad or computer. But when she hit “send,” that email was knowingly routed to her unsecured server — an unauthorized location — for both storage and transfer.

Additionally, when Clinton moved the server to Platte River Networks (a private company) in June 2013, and then again when she transferred the contents of the server to her private lawyers in 2014, the classified materials were in each instance again removed to another unsecured location.

Next we have the lack of proper authority to move or hold classified information somewhere, i.e., the “unauthorized location.”

While it’s possible for a private residence to be an “authorized” location, and it’s also possible for non-government servers and networks to be “authorized” to house and transfer classified materials, there are specific and stringent requirements to achieve such status. Simply being secretary of state didn’t allow Clinton to authorize herself to deviate from the requirements of retaining and transmitting classified documents, materials and information.

There is no known evidence that her arrangement to use the private email server in her home was undertaken with proper authority.

Finally, there’s the intent to “retain” the classified documents or materials at an unauthorized location.

The very purpose of Clinton’s server was to intentionally retain documents and materials — all emails and attachments — on the server in her house, including classified materials.

The intent required is only to undertake the action, i.e., to retain the classified documents and materials in the unauthorized fashion addressed in this statute. That’s it.

It borders on inconceivable that Clinton didn’t know that the emails she received, and more obviously, the emails that she created, stored and sent with the server, would contain classified information.

Simply put, Mrs. Clinton is already in just as bad — or worse — of a legal situation than Petraeus faced.

Does this mean she’ll be charged? FBI Director James Comey has a long history of ignoring political pressure. So it’s likely that the FBI will recommend prosecution, and then it will be up to President Obama’s Justice Department to decide whether to proceed. Stay tuned.
Let us assume for the moment that Hillary has the ability to make material unclassified at will, as long as it is not marked classified. The emails in question were undoubtedly classified afterward - that's the basis of denying the Freedom of Information Act requests. Yet Hillary not only continued hosting them, she moved them - twice. Either she broke the law, or she was above the law, so that she can simultaneously make the exact same material classified and unclassified for her own convenience and political advantage.
 
lol Okay. So you're fine with Hillary maintaining her own server at her home. It's a fabricated scandal.

Let's assume she becomes our next President. Should she also have the right to maintain her own private server for all official White House business? If not, why not? We've already established that she has the right to exclusively control her correspondence without being subject to Congressional subpoena or Freedom of Information Act request - shouldn't she also have the right to extend that to the White House?

Obviously her private server actually is subject to those. Because if they weren't, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
 
Legality aside, why did she do it? I don't think any rational person buys the convenience excuse, and the longer this plays out the more people lose any confidence in her. In the general election it won't be like Bernie who for whatever reason doesn't call her out on it, the republican nominee whoever that will be will absolutely hammer her on the issue. Even if nothing becomes of it, it still shows extremely poor judgement.
Quite frankly, the practice is actually the norm among senior leadership. Government and corporate.
 
Legality aside, why did she do it? I don't think any rational person buys the convenience excuse, and the longer this plays out the more people lose any confidence in her. In the general election it won't be like Bernie who for whatever reason doesn't call her out on it, the republican nominee whoever that will be will absolutely hammer her on the issue. Even if nothing becomes of it, it still shows extremely poor judgement.
I don't think Bernie can call her out without losing support and donors, and certainly not without losing voters and political capital. Politics is first and foremost a team sport. Sure, the Pubby nominee is going to hammer her for this, and rightly so. But one candidate hammering the other's honesty is kind of noise. A majority of Americans already know she is untrustworthy and dishonest. But to win, she just has to convince enough voters that she's a tiny bit less untrustworthy and dishonest than the Republican, OR that the virtue of electing the first female President is so great that it really doesn't matter that it's an untrustworthy and dishonest female.

I would not want my money betting against she and the media being able to do just that. I can't stand the Hildabeast and yet there are Republicans running that already would make even me vote for her. Just imagine after months of the media being able to concentrate on just one Republican. At least now they have to divide their time between Trump and Cruz.
 
Obviously her private server actually is subject to those. Because if they weren't, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Subject to those to the extent she wishes to be. Remember, the vast majority of those FOIA requests are still being denied, because those unclassified emails are still far too classified for us peasants. Unclassified for her, classified for us.

EDIT: And I assume I can take your answer as unqualified support for the Hillary White House operating from servers in the Hillary Chapaqua Server Wing?

Quite frankly, the practice is actually the norm among senior leadership. Government and corporate.
Really?

Perhaps you could "quite frankly" share with us the other senior leadership persons in "government and corporate" who operate solely on private servers in their basements. Must be some interesting news stories there.
 
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lol Clearly. No doubt that's why Justin Cooper was hired once she started her domain and then and then Brian Pagliano once she became SecState - to handle that 10 minutes and $15.

Hey, maybe it took two guys to convince Eric Hothem to misspell his name for a third time.
Cooper worked for the Clinton administration back in the 90's, and continued to work for the Clintons after Bill left office. Perhaps he was moved to Hillary's payroll, but the relationship wasn't new. Pagliano worked with Hillary Clinton before she became SoS, then worked for State for several years in IT. Given that Bill had an email system he couldn't manage himself, they had to hire someone to handle it. There's nothing special about it being Pagliano, except as a source of innuendo.
 
Subject to those to the extent she wishes to be. Remember, the vast majority of those FOIA requests are still being denied, because those unclassified emails are still far too classified for us peasants. Unclassified for her, classified for us.


Really?

Perhaps you could "quite frankly" share with us the other senior leadership persons in "government and corporate" who operate solely on private servers in their basements. Must be some interesting news stories there.

Pretty much all of them, in one way or another. Point the same finger of scrutiny and see. I would love it.
 
Cooper worked for the Clinton administration back in the 90's, and continued to work for the Clintons after Bill left office. Perhaps he was moved to Hillary's payroll, but the relationship wasn't new. Pagliano worked with Hillary Clinton before she became SoS, then worked for State for several years in IT. Given that Bill had an email system he couldn't manage himself, they had to hire someone to handle it. There's nothing special about it being Pagliano, except as a source of innuendo.
Are you a Clinton? Seriously, you seem to know so much about their atrocities.

-John
 
Gotcha. You don't support what she did, but you do support her. Sort of hate the sin, love the sinner.

As far as breaking the law:

http://nypost.com/2015/09/27/yes-hillary-clinton-broke-the-law/

Let us assume for the moment that Hillary has the ability to make material unclassified at will, as long as it is not marked classified. The emails in question were undoubtedly classified afterward - that's the basis of denying the Freedom of Information Act requests. Yet Hillary not only continued hosting them, she moved them - twice. Either she broke the law, or she was above the law, so that she can simultaneously make the exact same material classified and unclassified for her own convenience and political advantage.
That entire story presumes Clinton knew she had classified information her email. If she didn't know that, the whole premise collapses. That's why comparisons to Petraeus are irrelevant. Pertraeus knowingly kept and shared classified information.
 
Quite frankly, the practice is actually the norm among senior leadership. Government and corporate.



I don't buy it. And even if I did the "everybody else is doing" excuse never worked for me as a kid, nor should it work for someone who is Secretary of the State.
 
I don't buy it. And even if I did the "everybody else is doing" excuse never worked for me as a kid, nor should it work for someone who is Secretary of the State.
Last I checked, the Secretary of State was boss of the entire State department. So unless her actions were specifically against the law, as passed by Congress, you got nothing.
 
Cooper worked for the Clinton administration back in the 90's, and continued to work for the Clintons after Bill left office. Perhaps he was moved to Hillary's payroll, but the relationship wasn't new. Pagliano worked with Hillary Clinton before she became SoS, then worked for State for several years in IT. Given that Bill had an email system he couldn't manage himself, they had to hire someone to handle it. There's nothing special about it being Pagliano, except as a source of innuendo.
Odd that this "pre-existing server" suddenly needs administrating. Or is that more innuendo?

So vote #2 for President Hillary's White House Chapaqua server wing?

Pretty much all of them, in one way or another. Point the same finger of scrutiny and see. I would love it.
lol So you make the accusation with absolutely zero to back it up, then double down. Gotcha.

Why stop at the White House? Imagine how much money we can save if we simply move every government worker to Hillary's basement server at $15 a head. Maybe we'll get a group discount! Literally thousands of highly paid IT workers can be repurposed into community organizers. Hundreds of servers can be sold off - after all, nobody important is using them. Buildings can be donated to charities. No more Freedom of Information Act silliness - Hillary will show us what we need to see and we'll damn well thank Her.

As I said, Hillary's supporters like the fact that she operated on her own server. It's your preferred model for government - concentration of power and abolition of accountability.
 
That entire story presumes Clinton knew she had classified information her email. If she didn't know that, the whole premise collapses. That's why comparisons to Petraeus are irrelevant. Pertraeus knowingly kept and shared classified information.

Did Hillary not know what her job was, or what it entails? even if she didn't know because the email didn't have a big red CLASSIFIED mark in the subject line she knew that her job required her to deal with such information. Either she is utterly incompetent (which I don't believe for a second) or there are other reasons that she isn't willing to share.
 
That entire story presumes Clinton knew she had classified information her email. If she didn't know that, the whole premise collapses. That's why comparisons to Petraeus are irrelevant. Pertraeus knowingly kept and shared classified information.
... Hillary is far too stupid. 😀

-John
 
That entire story presumes Clinton knew she had classified information her email. If she didn't know that, the whole premise collapses. That's why comparisons to Petraeus are irrelevant. Pertraeus knowingly kept and shared classified information.
Man, you are waaay down the rabbit hole. She didn't know they were classified when she sent them and she also didn't know they were classified after they were denied for being classified either. Had she equipped her +5 Shield of Unknowing? Can she ever know anything? Evidently she should be President because she's literally unteachable. Am I missing some requirement that our President be able to hammer in nails with his or her head?

Last I checked, the Secretary of State was boss of the entire State department. So unless her actions were specifically against the law, as passed by Congress, you got nothing.
As I said, you guys worship the naked exercise of power and arrogance.
 
To accept your proposition, one also has to accept that all the classified material that has been found in her emails was unclassified then, even though it is classified now, AND that Hillary is too stupid to know what should be classified until someone else tells her.
Or, one can recognize that Clinton may be caught in an inter-agency pissing match over what is and is not classified. Based on the limited information we have, it appears that many of the purportedly top secret messages are links to or copies of news articles, e.g., an NYT article about a drone strike. The CIA insists such articles are classified, even though they are in the public domain. Perhaps they are legally correct, but it still seems pretty asinine to pretend the drone program is somehow secret.


Difficult to imagine how that leaves her qualified to be Secretary of State, much less President. However, you do make a valid point. I'll concede she could in theory have maintained one private server while correctly handling classified material (though still being in violation of established policy for operating her own private server) if you'll concede that she did not correctly handle classified material.
I agree it's possible she did not handle classified material correctly. Until the FBI weighs in, we don't know for sure.


And again, let's not forget that we have only the emails she has chosen to give us plus a few she denied having or altered but which turned up in other people's subpoenaed records. We already know from Blumenthal's emails that Mrs. Clinton deleted some email messages which were definitely work related AND altered some others. With complete control of her own private server and furnishing nothing but paper print-outs, Mrs. Clinton is free to delete or alter anything she wishes, as long as the other party plays along. If you feel this indicates good Presidential character, then clearly Mrs. Clinton is your ideal candidate. Absent a resurrected Nixon or Stalin anyway.
Note that providing paper printouts is the required procedure, as I understand it. Re. the rest, I can only speculate. I'm not a Clinton fan-boy who sees Clinton as a paragon of virtue. She is a professional politician with many flaws. I do see that she's being smeared, however, and that makes it difficult to accurately assess her character. Just because some RNC propagandist alleges something doesn't make it true.
 
Did Hillary not know what her job was, or what it entails? even if she didn't know because the email didn't have a big red CLASSIFIED mark in the subject line she knew that her job required her to deal with such information. Either she is utterly incompetent (which I don't believe for a second) or there are other reasons that she isn't willing to share.
Worse than that, according to Bowfinger Hillary cannot know something is classified even after the big red CLASSIFIED mark is added.

At least now I know why the Democrats so hate Palin - it's because they were perfecting their own perfect vision of stupidity and the Pubbies beat them to it. Hey, ours might not be quite as stupid, but at least she's hot.
 
Odd that this "pre-existing server" suddenly needs administrating. Or is that more innuendo?
WTF are you talking about? It's presumably been supported the whole time. The Clintons have several people working for them or providing contract services. Before Pagliano, it was somebody else. Believe it or not, there are lots of qualified server administrators out there.
 
Or, one can recognize that Clinton may be caught in an inter-agency pissing match over what is and is not classified. Based on the limited information we have, it appears that many of the purportedly top secret messages are links to or copies of news articles, e.g., an NYT article about a drone strike. The CIA insists such articles are classified, even though they are in the public domain. Perhaps they are legally correct, but it still seems pretty asinine to pretend the drone program is somehow secret.

I agree it's possible she did not handle classified material correctly. Until the FBI weighs in, we don't know for sure.

Note that providing paper printouts is the required procedure, as I understand it. Re. the rest, I can only speculate. I'm not a Clinton fan-boy who sees Clinton as a paragon of virtue. She is a professional politician with many flaws. I do see that she's being smeared, however, and that makes it difficult to accurately assess her character. Just because some RNC propagandist alleges something doesn't make it true.
lol I was just think that it was about time you pointed out that you are no fan of Clinton, just interested in fairness. After all, she's the victim here.

'Night, I gotta copy my homework and go home.
 
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