If you put in 8 hours/day every week, should you receive a wage you can live upon?

[OverVolt]

I think id normally vote yes but everyone is becoming so "gimme gimme gimme" mentality im inclined to say tough shit go get a skill that pays a living wage like people have had to do since the dawn of civilization.

 

[Vic]

myth?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/159029/americans-likely-say-belong-middle-class.aspx

That poll is self - identified social class so it's worthless for what you're trying to use it for.

Edit: and if I wanna go looking for tea partiers, I just head down to the trailer park.

 

[nehalem256]

Ok, you made the claim that Walmart provides a living wage. I showed you from your own charts that in at least a few areas of the US this is not the case. Add in the fact that Walmart is moving more and more to part time 'associates' and the above is just blah, blah, blah.

You showed no such thing. You can't take the average wage for Walmart, which has stores in many areas, and then assume it pays that same average wage in every location.

 

[spidey07]

Over the course of my life I don't think that I've actually met anyone who talked that 'tuff' who actually was.

Then you have nothing to lose.

I do. You'll grow up eventually.

 

[Vic]

I drove on roads I paid for.

And if someone wants to pay a little bit more for better quality roads, I suppose that makes them a socialist?

 

[spidey07]

And if someone wants to pay a little bit more for better quality roads, I suppose that makes them a socialist?

No. That makes them a capitalist.

Go make better roads. Peps will pay to travel them.

Lots of money to be made. Make it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

You showed no such thing. You can't take the average wage for Walmart, which has stores in many areas, and then assume it pays that same average wage in every location.

OK, here's just one. Chicago has an estimated living wage at $10.48/hr. Walmart apparently pays 'associates' in Chicago an average of $9.11 http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Walmart-Chicago-Salaries-EI_IE715.0,7_IL.8,15_IM167.htm

 

[Victorian Gray]

Then you have nothing to lose.

I do. You'll grow up eventually.

Yep sonny, I can see that you really are tough. Good for you.

 

[spidey07]

Yep sonny, I can see that you really are tough. Good for you.

I'm not tough. I just have a lot to protect.

You'll grow up and understand this.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I'm not tough. I just have a lot to protect.

You'll grow up and understand this.

What evs man.

 

[richaron]

I honestly lold at the keyboard warriors tarding on eachother. But their tarding did remind me of another stupid problem the US is having; gun control.

What could possibly help? Lets say we look at changing wage laws, raising minimum wage, how does that correspond to the worlds most livable cities?

...it's obviously going to be an instant and complete change, or I doubt any Americans could follow the logic.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm not tough. I just have a lot to protect.

You'll grow up and understand this.

When you grow up you realize that you have only failed.. Everything you have to protect will slip from your hands and with it the delusion of self importance that you ever had any real capacity. You protect your broken heart from pain because long ago you lost everything.

 

[Specop 007]

I just did. The purpose of government is to protect private property and thus maintain order. If you have property that is being protected, then you should be paying for that privilege. Otherwise, you're free loading just like these poor you hate so much.

I wish. . I really wish. . that we could have a system where someone like yourself could just opt out. Where if you don't want to pay your taxes, then (for example) the police won't come to your house if you get robbed. But we both know it doesn't work that way, and that you're just trying to freeload.

Courts have already ruled the police are not required to answer calls for help. So your argument has already fallen right flat on its ass. Now throw int he concepts of neighborhood watches and self defense laws and the idea the governments job is to protect property is just laughable.

 

[Zaap]

LOL! Does anyone actually think the *government itself* believes its job is to protect private property?

Thats is what you call a wake-up call in the making.

 

[cubby1223]

You know..I can remember the days when the "working class" could own a home..with a single-provider,take a 2-week vacation in their RV every year..and generally live.
It's not like that anymore.
No jobs=lower standard of living.
No manufacturing=no jobs.
It can't be all bosses and no workers.

And you look to the rest of the undeveloped world and there are hordes of people who work much harder than average American yet has a small fraction of the life that American has.

Barriers of transportation & communication helped allow the U.S. worker to prop himself up above the rest of the world. Those barriers are coming down. Worldwide travel and worldwide communication continues to improve as every year goes by. The working class abroad is rising up at the expense of the working class in the U.S.

It has little to do with politics. It has little to do with conservative versus liberal. It has little to do with whether your representative in gov't has a D or an R next to his name. It has much to do with those who place their value in the world above where it really is at.

 

[Zaap]

It has nothing to do with politics. It has nothing to do with conservative versus liberal. It has everything to do with those who place their value in the world above where it really is at.

So true.

 

[sourn]

Personally I don't think this topic should even be up for discussion. What we need to do is fire these fucking politicians every last one of the mother fuckers. Get real people in there that don't spend $10,000 for a damn toilet and start cutting some taxes.

People talk bullshit about somebody flipping burgers.. Well you know what at least their actually fucking doing something. Other than getting paid huge amounts of money to bitch back and fourth and not accomplish a damn thing.

 

[richaron]

It has little to do with politics. It has little to do with conservative versus liberal. It has little to do with whether your representative in gov't has a D or an R next to his name. It has much to do with those who place their value in the world above where it really is at.

Not true. It has to do with the health of the economy, the faith and the long term plans of your employers/legislators. And to a certain extent education; a sense of pride & morality.

If you choose to compare your economy to some 3rd world cesspit, that is exactly what you get. Along with accompanying bottom dwellers, & detached lower-middle class conservatives on a power trip (see above).

People talk bullshit about somebody flipping burgers.. Well you know what at least their actually fucking doing something. Other than getting paid huge amounts of money to bitch back and fourth and not accomplish a damn thing.

word.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Fixed quote Zaap, my bad.

 

[Zaap]

^ That's not my quote.

Whatever else you spewed I couldn't care less.

 

[disappoint]

Thats more a problem for the Democrats who seem to think they can fix any problem with just "a bit more legislation". The fact is its quite the opposite. You see Democrats tend to view the economy as something which fundamentally would no work without interference. As if its a broken idea which only works through government control and interference.

Its precisely the opposite. The economy is perfectly capable of continuing on without and government interference. It has for centuries. The problem in fact is the government trying to "fix" the economy which actually makes things worse. Check the views of SBO's on the economy. Check the polls of people as to whether they would start a SBO in this climate. It isnt the economy thats the problem. Its the constant interference by the government thats essentially breaking the system.

Why WOULDNT a business want to offshore with the government we have? Why WOULDNT money leave the country with the government we have?

Why wouldn't you want to go work at Foxconn?

 

[Vic]

Courts have already ruled the police are not required to answer calls for help. So your argument has already fallen right flat on its ass. Now throw int he concepts of neighborhood watches and self defense laws and the idea the governments job is to protect property is just laughable.

What government should do and what it actually does are of course two very different things.
However, the notion that the primary purpose of government is to protect private property is the fundamental basis of libertarian ideology. Which itself goes back to Locke and classical liberalism. Any actual conservative should appreciate this.

Edit: I did not at any time imply that a person does not or should not have the right to protect their own property. You're incapable of arguing without a straw man, aren't you?

 

[Vic]

No. That makes them a capitalist.

Go make better roads. Peps will pay to travel them.

Lots of money to be made. Make it.

Yeah I'll run down to BofA for that multi - billion dollar loan first thing in the morning.

 

[cubby1223]

Not true. It has to do with the health of the economy, the faith and the long term plans of your employers/legislators. And to a certain extent education; a sense of pride & morality.

If you choose to compare your economy to some 3rd world cesspit, that is exactly what you get. Along with accompanying bottom dwellers, & detached lower-middle class conservatives on a power trip (see above).

You don't "get" it, and maybe never will. The conditions for working class America doesn't matter one bit whether I choose to make comparisons to 3rd world "cesspits" or not.

Products that are cheaper to manufacture overseas will continue to be manufactured overseas. Products and services that cost less will continue to be purchased by consumers more than higher cost alternatives.

There are many ways to play to America's strengths and compete in a global economy. Throwing fits until people give you money to shut up, is not a strength.


When you get down to the basics of your argument, you believe that the average United States citizen is entitled to a better life than an average citizen of a 3rd world country. The cold hard truth is there are far, far more people in the world who disagree with you than who agree with you. With the continuing advancements in global transportation & communication, those who disagree with you have more power behind them. Watch what will happen to Europe over the next decade, they are even more so on the brink of collapsing into irrelevance. If Europe makes a rebound, then pat yourself on the back, there is hope you will continue your comfortable life in the U.S. If Europe continues it's downhill slide...

 

[richaron]

When you get down to the basics of your argument, you believe that a commoner in the United States is entitled to a better life than a commoner born in a 3rd world country. The cold hard truth is there are far, far more people in the world who disagree with you than who agree with you.

Yes I do believe a "commoner" in the United States, the worlds largest economy (still?), is entitled to financial security as reward for working full time. Yes I believe this is a "better life" than a "commoner" in the 3rd world.

Your arguments for cheaper manufacturing are all fine, of course local production can't compete in some areas, and if they can't compete then they'll go out of business. That's fine, that's the way the world works.

Manufacturing cheap foreign goods isn't the whole picture, and it has little to do with the guys who "flip burgers", serve drinks, collect garbage, drive busses, deliver mail, fix roads, paint houses, etc..

 

[theeedude]

Welfare is not going anywhere, corporate nor for the public, but the working middle class can no longer afford to support the programs.

When facebook and a welfare family both get a big tax return, who is left to pay the bill?

Raise taxes on capital gains, dividends, estates, and top marginal income tax rates.