If you put in 8 hours/day every week, should you receive a wage you can live upon?

[spidey07]

What you are describing sounds an awful lot like extortion.

That's what welfare and food stamps are. The compasionate liberal will tell you "it's to keep them from rioting".

When what they really mean is "have to keep the savages at bay through appeasement", but they won't come right out and say it.

 

[Vic]

Sounds good. When do we start? Now please?

I can guarantee they wouldn't last long in my neighborhood. All my neighbors know how to use long rifles and scopes and are armed to the teeth with 10s of thousands of rounds. when you get to where I am on life, you have means to protect what's yours, same as my neighbors.

Rioting is good, they only destroy their own neighborhoods. I say let 'em.

Good luck with that.

 

[spidey07]

Good luck with that.

You got me all excited. Can we start now please?

Should we look at post Katrina for a good example?

 

[nehalem256]

Duh. Welfare and other such programs have little to do with generosity.

2.) The reason for not giving into the Republicans on the government shutdown was always one thing and one thing alone: you don't give in to hostage taking. It didn't matter if it was about the ACA, about taxes, about spending, about anything. Did you guys forget about how the Republicans tried to move away from the ACA and talk about spending cuts instead and that was ignored as well?

Repeat after me: the debt ceiling/government shutdown was about not giving in to hostage taking. Nothing else.

Enough said I think

 

[Texashiker]

So lets end welfare and food stamps.

Problem fixed, since in your mind it is such a problem.

If there were no social programs such as medicaid, food stamps and public housing, would the working poor demand a higher wage?

 

[Specop 007]

Just for my future knowledge, is it normal for you to make up other people's arguments? I never argued to cancel welfare or that Walmart will increase its wages in that event. I will however argue that you're a clueless douchebag.

Your words, not mine. Which means maybe you should better use your words.

And the availability of public assistance dollars is affecting the bottom end of the labor market, holding wages down.

 

[theeedude]

Welfare and foodstamps aren't going anywhere. In fact, now that even working class relies on food stamps, welfare, and Medicaid, it's going to make social programs much more entrenched. They aren't for the lazy anymore like Republicans would like to have marginalized the beneficiaries as. They are now for broad swaths of the electorate. If business is breaking the social contract that if you work hard you will succeed, then government will step in. Of course it will be paid with higher taxes at some point.

 

[schmuckley]

You know..I can remember the days when the "working class" could own a home..with a single-provider,take a 2-week vacation in their RV every year..and generally live.
It's not like that anymore.
No jobs=lower standard of living.
No manufacturing=no jobs.
It can't be all bosses and no workers.

 

[nehalem256]

Welfare and foodstamps aren't going anywhere. In fact, now that even working class relies on food stamps, welfare, and Medicaid, it's going to make social programs much more entrenched. They aren't for the lazy anymore like Republicans would like to have marginalized the beneficiaries as. They are now for broad swaths of the electorate. If business is breaking the social contract that if you work hard you will succeed, then government will step in. Of course it will be paid with higher taxes at some point.

Its more like for the stupid. Or those lacking proper values.

As I have shown simply having children within marriage, instead of being a single mom, effectively boosts your income by 30% :thumbsup:

Work hard or work smart.

 

[Vic]

That's what welfare and food stamps are. The compasionate liberal will tell you "it's to keep them from rioting".

When what they really mean is "have to keep the savages at bay through appeasement", but they won't come right out and say it.

I just did. The purpose of government is to protect private property and thus maintain order. If you have property that is being protected, then you should be paying for that privilege. Otherwise, you're free loading just like these poor you hate so much.

I wish. . I really wish. . that we could have a system where someone like yourself could just opt out. Where if you don't want to pay your taxes, then (for example) the police won't come to your house if you get robbed. But we both know it doesn't work that way, and that you're just trying to freeload.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So then why isn't the Democratic party pushing to cut welfare programs? Do they like subsidizing evil corporations like Walmart?



As per the numbers I posted previously Walmart almost certainly pays a living wage for a single adult.

According to your own chart, not in New York City, or a heck of a lot of other American cities.

Examples.

Average wage of a Walmart 'associate is $8.81/hr ( http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115003/living-wage-walmart-can-solve-inequality-problem ) and your chart shows a living wage in New York City to be $12.75 for a single adult. In Los Angeles City it's $11.75. Cook County it's $10.48. Miami Beach it's $10.79.


Another thing to remember is that many/most 'associates' are not able to get full time work at Walmart (or most similar companies).

And from Bloomberg http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-18/always-low-wages-wal-mart-s-other-choices.html

"Wal-Mart's low wages have led to full-time employees seeking public assistance. These are not the 47 percent, lazy, unmotivated bums. Rather, these are people working physical, often difficult jobs. They receive $2.66 billion in government help each year (including $1 billion in healthcare assistance). That works out to about $5,815 per worker. And about $420,000 per store. But the federal and state aid varies widely; in Wisconsin, a study found that it was at least $904,542 a year per store. (See the accompanying chart.)

Why, I keep asking myself, do we effectively want to subsidize a private company’s employees? Wouldn’t it make much more sense to raise the minimum wage to a level that a full-time worker could support the average American family of four? Just $11.33 puts a 40-hour employee over the poverty line. The costs of this increase would be borne by the company and its consumers -- not the taxpayer.

Perhaps the most ironic aspect of this are the advantages to the retailer of higher associate salaries. Some stores have discovered that raising wages provides a competitive advantage. Retailers like Trader Joe's and Costco pay significantly more than their giant competitor. At Costco, employees earn 40 percent more than at Wal-Mart’s Sam’s Club. Average employees wages at the warehouse retailer are $21.96 per hour, and most of Costco’s U.S. employees are eligible for benefits."

 

[nehalem256]

You know..I can remember the days when the "working class" could own a home..with a single-provider,take a 2-week vacation in their RV every year..and generally live.
It's not like that anymore.
No jobs=lower standard of living.
No manufacturing=no jobs.
It can't be all bosses and no workers.

Liberals are just as bad as conservatives on wages.

They pander to a bunch of low-skill 3rd world immigrants(many illegally here) and pushed women into the workforce.

Do those seem like ways to boost wages?

 

[theeedude]

Its more like for the stupid. Or those lacking proper values.

As I have shown simply having children within marriage, instead of being a single mom, effectively boosts your income by 30% :thumbsup:

Work hard or work smart.

Insulting a big chunk of the electorate as stupid and lacking proper values. Stick with that. Worked out great for Romney with his 47%. :thumbsup:

 

[spidey07]

I just did. The purpose of government is to protect private property and thus maintain order. If you have property that is being protected, then you should be paying for that privilege. Otherwise, you're free loading just like these poor you hate so much.

I wish. . I really wish. . that we could have a system where someone like yourself could just opt out. Where if you don't want to pay your taxes, then (for example) the police won't come to your house if you get robbed. But we both know it doesn't work that way, and that you're just trying to freeload.

I'd be fine with that option as well

The police do not protect. They don't stop me from being robbed.

 

[nehalem256]

According to your own chart, not in New York City, or a heck of a lot of other American cities.

Examples.

Average wage of a Walmart 'associate is $8.81/hr ( http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115003/living-wage-walmart-can-solve-inequality-problem ) and your chart shows a living wage in New York City to be $12.75 for a single adult. In Los Angeles City it's $11.75. Cook County it's $10.48. Miami Beach it's $10.79.

Average wage is for the whole US. So lets find out how the cost of living in Minneapolis compares to the average in the US.

http://www.infoplease.com/business/economy/cost-living-index-us-cities.html

Gives Minneapolis as having a cost of living of 111.0.

So up the average Walmart wage by 11% = $9.78/hr or above the living wage for a single person :thumbsup:

Also, remember the Walmart skews rural which will tend to have a lower cost of living than say New York City.

 

[nehalem256]

Insulting a big chunk of the electorate as stupid and lacking proper values. Stick with that. Worked out great for Romney with his 47%. :thumbsup:

So we should avoid speaking truths because it will upset people?

Does that seem like the path to long-term prosperity to you?

 

[Lithium381]

Of course we have a say in how walmart is run, don't be absurd. What do you think the law is?

Also, I'm explicitly advocating to change the system.

Finally, I'm also advocating for personal responsibility. You appear to be content with subsidizing walmarts wage policy. I am not.

the law is immoral when used in that way, to manipulate people through the threat of force. You seem to think that majority rule is what's best for us, and if someone else has something you want you're free to take it. That's theft.

I'd rather not subsidize walmarts wage policy, and i'm not content with it. What kind of personal responsibility are you advocating?

 

[theeedude]

So we should avoid speaking truths because it will upset people?

Absolutely not! It's the Republicans' duty to have a 47% speech in every election and tell us all the "truth" as they see it.

 

[Lithium381]

According to your own chart, not in New York City, or a heck of a lot of other American cities.

Examples.

Average wage of a Walmart 'associate is $8.81/hr ( http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115003/living-wage-walmart-can-solve-inequality-problem ) and your chart shows a living wage in New York City to be $12.75 for a single adult. In Los Angeles City it's $11.75. Cook County it's $10.48. Miami Beach it's $10.79.


Another thing to remember is that many/most 'associates' are not able to get full time work at Walmart (or most similar companies).

And from Bloomberg http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-18/always-low-wages-wal-mart-s-other-choices.html

"Wal-Mart's low wages have led to full-time employees seeking public assistance. These are not the 47 percent, lazy, unmotivated bums. Rather, these are people working physical, often difficult jobs. They receive $2.66 billion in government help each year (including $1 billion in healthcare assistance). That works out to about $5,815 per worker. And about $420,000 per store. But the federal and state aid varies widely; in Wisconsin, a study found that it was at least $904,542 a year per store. (See the accompanying chart.)

Why, I keep asking myself, do we effectively want to subsidize a private company’s employees? Wouldn’t it make much more sense to raise the minimum wage to a level that a full-time worker could support the average American family of four? Just $11.33 puts a 40-hour employee over the poverty line. The costs of this increase would be borne by the company and its consumers -- not the taxpayer.

Perhaps the most ironic aspect of this are the advantages to the retailer of higher associate salaries. Some stores have discovered that raising wages provides a competitive advantage. Retailers like Trader Joe's and Costco pay significantly more than their giant competitor. At Costco, employees earn 40 percent more than at Wal-Mart’s Sam’s Club. Average employees wages at the warehouse retailer are $21.96 per hour, and most of Costco’s U.S. employees are eligible for benefits."

yeah, that's for a bottom of the barrel job. walmart does have FTE positions available that pay better than your $12/hr mark. . . assistant store managers, managers, corporate positions etc...

 

[Lithium381]

I'd be fine with that option as well

The police do not protect. They don't stop me from being robbed.

Yeah, but spidey, who will come 20 minutes after the break in/murder of your whole family and fill out all of that annoying paperwork?

 

[nehalem256]

Absolutely not! It's the Republicans' duty to have a 47% speech in every election and tell us all the "truth" as they see it.

Is that like the "truth" where liberals want Walmart to pay single mom's $25/hr so they can support 2 bastard kids?

I can only hope Democrats finally come out and make that part of their official platform.:thumbsup:

 

[theeedude]

Is that like the "truth" where liberals want Walmart to pay single mom's $25/hr so they can support 2 bastard kids?

I can only hope Democrats finally come out and make that part of their official platform.:thumbsup:

If Republicans want to call every working poor mom's kid a "bastard," they should add that to their 47% speeches for sure!

 

[Vic]

Your words, not mine. Which means maybe you should better use your words.

Clearly what I wrote was beyond your comprehension. Either that or you don't understand how markets work.

 

[spidey07]

Yeah, but spidey, who will come 20 minutes after the break in/murder of your whole family and fill out all of that annoying paperwork?

Sad. But true. I have utmost respect for police as i couldn't do their job.

But when it comes to my family and property that's my responsibility as I'm the best man for that job.

 

[Vic]

You got me all excited. Can we start now please?

Should we look at post Katrina for a good example?

You're so naive and entitled. It's amazing. Meanwhile, I'll be sleeping comfortably at my house while you're reenacting the Alamo at yours. Money well spent.