If you could opt out of social security, would you do it?

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Instead of complaining about SS, which has worked these past 70 years, why not complain about the politicians who are ruining it? I can tell you, you just want more money for yourself. Justafiably selfish? Maybe. But it's selfish all the same, and you shouldn't be all surprised when people call you on it.

You are missing a key fact. SS is NOT the same as it was 30 years ago. Someone can dig up the exact numbers, but I believe about 30 years ago there were about 6 people paying into SS for every 1 getting benefits. That number is now 2:1 and will hit 1:1 in our lifetime.

What does that mean? It means that we are paying (or will be paying) 3-6x what our parents paid because they refused to vote to pay more in. By pushing it off a generation they were able to get what they wanted without paying more themselves.

 

[charrison]

I would do it in a heartbeat. Why should the goverment take almost 15% away from working person out there and give them very little in return.

 

[Dissipate]

So do we all agree that SS is pretty much a complete scam?

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Probably, but I'd feel bad about it. Maybe because I realize SS isn't an investment plan, and treating it as such would hurt people who currently rely on the program. On the other hand, I was never really asked about it...so I don't know.

Yeah taht is what I was thinking...a lot of these old people now paid into the system like I will do...I would feel like I'm abandoning them.

But part of it is not because I want out for myself, but I feel the system is being destroyed and abused; and I don't want to give more money for politicians to misplace and mis appropiate money, but at the same time I do want to "do my deed" for the old people.

So I would yes, but I would feel bad about it since its supposed to be the apparatus to where we help take care of our eldery generation...but when politicians abuse it the way they do then to me it has lost its purpose...

Oh...20 fulltime student

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
So do we all agree that SS is pretty much a pyramid scam?

Fixed.

 

[judasmachine]

absolutely. the year i heard on npr that it's supposed to run out is the year i turn 65. ain't that a biatch!

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
If you could opt out of social security starting tomorrow, would you do it? This means that you would cease having to pay 7% and your employer wouldn't have to pay anything either. But to go along with that you would only receive benefits up to the point that you already paid in.

State your age as well as your answer.

Considering all of you selfish assholes who want to see grandma out on the street would opt out, I guess I would too. Since, after all, one you had succeeded in bankrupting the program, my money would just end up going for some idiotic war or into some executive's pocket.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Aisengard
It's selfish because you want more money for yourself. Like I said, SS is a safety net, a wealth redistribution, not an investment plan. Richer people are not going to get out as much as they put in, that's how welfare works, and that's how SS works. [EDIT] You're not even 'putting in' money, you're not getting that back. SS worked, and has always worked, by funding the elderly with the people who work. And then they get funded by the next generation. And so on. SS operates on that principle. It's American, and if you don't like it, then you can move. I mean, isn't that the Republican mantra? [/EDIT]

Instead of complaining about SS, which has worked these past 70 years, why not complain about the politicians who are ruining it? I can tell you, you just want more money for yourself. Justafiably selfish? Maybe. But it's selfish all the same, and you shouldn't be all surprised when people call you on it.

I don't see why I should give money to millionaries. Can you explain why someone who has more money then I will make in 10 years should get to steal part of my wages? How is it selfish to want to stop such theft?

Edit: There is nothing the goverment could have done to fix SS. SS is fundimential flawed in that it requires many more births person then we have now.

Millionaires who are forced to pay into social security should get full benefits out of it.

I'm forced to pay for the Iraq war and foreign aid to Israel, but I don't see any benefit from that. I should get a percentage of the kickback that people like Dick Cheney get.

 

[JJWalker]

This may be a stupid question, but is there any sort of means testing to receive SS? I mean, if you're a millionaire when you reach retirement age, are you still able to receive SS benefits?

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: JJWalker
This may be a stupid question, but is there any sort of means testing to receive SS? I mean, if you're a millionaire when you reach retirement age, are you still able to receive SS benefits?

Yes, millionaires receive SS... and people like Zendari will argue that they deserve, and indeed NEED every penny.

 

[Darkhawk28]

I'm torn on the subject.

Although I feel that Social Security is a great program, it comes down to a matter of self-preservation. I would have to make a judgement on how stripped, robbed and bludgeoned the program will get in the next 30+ years.

Right now, I'd have to say that Social Security is going the way of the dodo-bird, not because of a flaw in its design or concept, but from being stripped of its resources by a spend-thrift governement.

If I could get back every single dime I'd ever put into the system plus modest interest, then yes, I would opt out and try to invest it wisely.

 

[BriGy86]

so what will happen when social security runs out

lets say some guy goes to collect, are they going to just say "sorry we have no money"?

i wonder how people will lash out that can't collect

 

[Legend]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Dissipate
If you could opt out of social security starting tomorrow, would you do it? This means that you would cease having to pay 7% and your employer wouldn't have to pay anything either. But to go along with that you would only receive benefits up to the point that you already paid in.

State your age as well as your answer.

Considering all of you selfish assholes who want to see grandma out on the street would opt out, I guess I would too. Since, after all, one you had succeeded in bankrupting the program, my money would just end up going for some idiotic war or into some executive's pocket.

First, I don't think we should stop SS and let the elderly become homeless. We should have a transistional period. Second, the reformed SS system should give ownership to the individual, but also price match contributions to low income people so they can retire on something at least more than what SS gives now. Third, fiscal conservatives != neocons. Probably the exact opposite. I'm fiscally conservative, but I'm weak Libertarian. I don't support the war.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Dissipate
If you could opt out of social security starting tomorrow, would you do it? This means that you would cease having to pay 7% and your employer wouldn't have to pay anything either. But to go along with that you would only receive benefits up to the point that you already paid in.

State your age as well as your answer.

Considering all of you selfish assholes who want to see grandma out on the street would opt out, I guess I would too. Since, after all, one you had succeeded in bankrupting the program, my money would just end up going for some idiotic war or into some executive's pocket.

First, I don't think we should stop SS and let the elderly become homeless. We should have a transistional period. Second, the reformed SS system should give ownership to the individual, but also price match contributions to low income people so they can retire on something at least more than what SS gives now. Third, fiscal conservatives != neocons. Probably the exact opposite. I'm fiscally conservative, but I'm weak Libertarian. I don't support the war.

Sigh. Don't you understand? If individuals who die before they use up their retirment savings "keep" the money and pass it on to their family than what happens to the 50 percent of people who live past the average death age? the government would have to support them. SS is not only a retirement program but an insurance program. Without the insurance part than everyone(98 percent) would have to save for the possibliity they would live to 100.
Which is why private retirement accounts can't work. They would need so much money in them to account for living to 100 years old that 90 percent of Americans can't save enough. Remember that if you have to provide for a certain standard of living for the 35 years of retirement if you live to 100 you have to take out very little each year of retirement. Forcing almost everyone onto welfare.

 

[PingSpike]

The government seems to have positioned itself as a gigantic money wasting machine. Without a question, yes I would. I think I'd get a better return out of that money by stuffing it in a mattress.

 

[MonkeyK]

Nope, I am 37 and make about 65K/year.


From my general recollection, my SS benefits are something like:
1) If I live to the age that SS say I can retire, I will recieve 1600/mo in current dollars
2) If I become completely disabled before my retirement age, I will still recieve the 1600/mo in current dollars
3) If I die before my retirement age, my wife will recieve 1600/mo in current dollars plus another 1400/mo for my children until they turn 18

Try and find a private plan that can do that. If you can, tell me what it costs.
To simplify your research, you can replace the numbers above with
1) Any retirement account that results in 300K at retirment age
2) Disability insurance with a benefit of 1600/mo and cost of living adjustments
3) 300K in Life Insurance with a 30 year term



I suspect that the costs will be very comperable.
I also suspect that a good number of those who complain about SS do not have adequete disability insurance (I think that the stat is 3x as likely to become disabled than to die during a 20yr period)

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: Dissipate
So do we all agree that SS is pretty much a pyramid scam?

Fixed.

Absolutely not! On both accounts. SS is not a scam, and it is certianly not a pyramid scheme any more than life insurance companies are.

The scam is that those who represent us are spending that money without restraint.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I'm torn on the subject.

Although I feel that Social Security is a great program, it comes down to a matter of self-preservation. I would have to make a judgement on how stripped, robbed and bludgeoned the program will get in the next 30+ years.

Right now, I'd have to say that Social Security is going the way of the dodo-bird, not because of a flaw in its design or concept, but from being stripped of its resources by a spend-thrift governement.

If I could get back every single dime I'd ever put into the system plus modest interest, then yes, I would opt out and try to invest it wisely.

Hey did those tables I posted from the trustee report change your mind a bit?

Truely mind boggling when you think about it isnt it?

As for the OP I would opt out of SS in a heartbeat. The govt has shown over and over again it is unable to run anything efficiently. All the promised social programs havent lived upto expectations and cost twice as much.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Nope, I am 37 and make about 65K/year.


From my general recollection, my SS benefits are something like:
1) If I live to the age that SS say I can retire, I will recieve 1600/mo in current dollars
2) If I become completely disabled before my retirement age, I will still recieve the 1600/mo in current dollars
3) If I die before my retirement age, my wife will recieve 1600/mo in current dollars plus another 1400/mo for my children until they turn 18

Try and find a private plan that can do that. If you can, tell me what it costs.
To simplify your research, you can replace the numbers above with
1) Any retirement account that results in 300K at retirment age
2) Disability insurance with a benefit of 1600/mo and cost of living adjustments
3) 300K in Life Insurance with a 30 year term



I suspect that the costs will be very comperable.
I also suspect that a good number of those who complain about SS do not have adequete disability insurance (I think that the stat is 3x as likely to become disabled than to die during a 20yr period)

I am pretty sure disability doesnt cost 12.8% of your salary.
As for the retirement tables. Take 12.8% of your salary and put it into a blanced mutual fund for 40 years.

At 50K a year salary with a 8% annual return you retire with about 3.2 Million.

That is ~10,800 per month for 30 years providing you see zero growth in that asset over that 30 year span. Oh and this is passable via your estate to your kids, unlike SS.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I'm torn on the subject.

Although I feel that Social Security is a great program, it comes down to a matter of self-preservation. I would have to make a judgement on how stripped, robbed and bludgeoned the program will get in the next 30+ years.

Right now, I'd have to say that Social Security is going the way of the dodo-bird, not because of a flaw in its design or concept, but from being stripped of its resources by a spend-thrift governement.

If I could get back every single dime I'd ever put into the system plus modest interest, then yes, I would opt out and try to invest it wisely.

Hey did those tables I posted from the trustee report change your mind a bit?

Truely mind boggling when you think about it isnt it?

As for the OP I would opt out of SS in a heartbeat. The govt has shown over and over again it is unable to run anything efficiently. All the promised social programs havent lived upto expectations and cost twice as much.

No, not really, right now, SS CAN be saved. I just have zero confidence in people like you having the moral fibre to actually do it.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I'm torn on the subject.

Although I feel that Social Security is a great program, it comes down to a matter of self-preservation. I would have to make a judgement on how stripped, robbed and bludgeoned the program will get in the next 30+ years.

Right now, I'd have to say that Social Security is going the way of the dodo-bird, not because of a flaw in its design or concept, but from being stripped of its resources by a spend-thrift governement.

If I could get back every single dime I'd ever put into the system plus modest interest, then yes, I would opt out and try to invest it wisely.

Hey did those tables I posted from the trustee report change your mind a bit?

Truely mind boggling when you think about it isnt it?

As for the OP I would opt out of SS in a heartbeat. The govt has shown over and over again it is unable to run anything efficiently. All the promised social programs havent lived upto expectations and cost twice as much.

No, not really, right now, SS CAN be saved. I just have zero confidence in people like you having the moral fibre to actually do it.

Like me? I am willing to give up my benefits for the betterment of the program, are you? Your bitterness gets in the way of your ability to see past partisan politics in this game.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I'm torn on the subject.

Although I feel that Social Security is a great program, it comes down to a matter of self-preservation. I would have to make a judgement on how stripped, robbed and bludgeoned the program will get in the next 30+ years.

Right now, I'd have to say that Social Security is going the way of the dodo-bird, not because of a flaw in its design or concept, but from being stripped of its resources by a spend-thrift governement.

If I could get back every single dime I'd ever put into the system plus modest interest, then yes, I would opt out and try to invest it wisely.

Hey did those tables I posted from the trustee report change your mind a bit?

Truely mind boggling when you think about it isnt it?

As for the OP I would opt out of SS in a heartbeat. The govt has shown over and over again it is unable to run anything efficiently. All the promised social programs havent lived upto expectations and cost twice as much.

No, not really, right now, SS CAN be saved. I just have zero confidence in people like you having the moral fibre to actually do it.

Like me? I am willing to give up my benefits for the betterment of the program. Your bitterness gets in the way of your ability to see past partisan politics in this game.

Your sacrifice is so duly noted. :roll:

I do not put confidence in people that hate the program so deeply to actually fix it.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I'm torn on the subject.

Although I feel that Social Security is a great program, it comes down to a matter of self-preservation. I would have to make a judgement on how stripped, robbed and bludgeoned the program will get in the next 30+ years.

Right now, I'd have to say that Social Security is going the way of the dodo-bird, not because of a flaw in its design or concept, but from being stripped of its resources by a spend-thrift governement.

If I could get back every single dime I'd ever put into the system plus modest interest, then yes, I would opt out and try to invest it wisely.

Hey did those tables I posted from the trustee report change your mind a bit?

Truely mind boggling when you think about it isnt it?

As for the OP I would opt out of SS in a heartbeat. The govt has shown over and over again it is unable to run anything efficiently. All the promised social programs havent lived upto expectations and cost twice as much.

No, not really, right now, SS CAN be saved. I just have zero confidence in people like you having the moral fibre to actually do it.

Like me? I am willing to give up my benefits for the betterment of the program. Your bitterness gets in the way of your ability to see past partisan politics in this game.

Your sacrifice is so duly noted. :roll:

I do not put confidence in people that hate the program so deeply to actually fix it.

The truth hurts the most, people who dislike the program dont buy into its BS claims.

People like you still believe it is fixable which clearly indicates your lack of grasp on the failures of the system. Without raising taxes or the age of eligibility to ~75 years of age the system will draw from the general fund.

I am positive the raising of the tax is not something I am willing to do. Mending a broken system with bandaids is failing to fix it.

And yes me willing to sacrafice my SS benefits for the whole of the people is > than your selfish attitude to preserve it best you can so you can rape another generation of its hard earned money for poverty wages.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: JJWalker
This may be a stupid question, but is there any sort of means testing to receive SS? I mean, if you're a millionaire when you reach retirement age, are you still able to receive SS benefits?

Yes, millionaires receive SS... and people like Zendari will argue that they deserve, and indeed NEED every penny.

Well they pay in, and they get far less than that out even under the current rules. Consider your iraq war taxes your equivalent of thier sacrifice.

It was meant to be an individualized program where everyone puts in; but people are trying to get rid of that too.

2% on $2000 indeed.

 

[piasabird]

I am already maxed out.

I dont pay social security any more because I work in Education.