if you are Asian and have a perfect sat score you still may not get in to any ivy schools

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Clocker

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,353
0
76
browntown it is not silly. the person interviewed who said people can buy their way in the university rep or dean or something. i suppose you could disagree with him.

but here is an example, again 20/20, ralph lauren's kid gets accepted as a conditional admitee, ralph lauren donates millions to school, later the school's dean becomes a member of the board of ralph lauren's company, kid graduates.

 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
on the flip side, if ur SAT is less than 1000 and u are black u can become a quota filler

I'd still rather be the asian with the perfect SAT score

 

fire400

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2005
5,204
21
81
The American Spirit by Thomas A. Bailey, David M. Kennedy
Eighth Edition, Volume II

Introdution to 5. in Chapter 45

a. Ronald Takaki, "Have Asian Americans made it?" San Francisco Examiner (January 10, 1984): 12
b. Ronald Takaki, "Asian Americans in the University," San Francisco Examiner (April 16, 1984): 14.

introduction quote:
-"
Thousands of Chinese and Japanese immigrants in the United States nearly a century ago, but the Chinese influx was shut down by Congress in 1882, and prospective Japanese migrants were prohibited by a series of agreements in the arly twentieth century, culminating in their total exclusion in the Immigration Act of 1924 as "aliens inelegible to citizenship." As a result, until recent decades both the Chinese-American and Japanese-American communities remained exceedingly small and strictly isolated by racial prejudice. Since immigration-law reforms in the 1960's, however, Asian immigration to the United States has increased dramatically. Asian-Americans, including Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, and Filipinos, now constitute a large, growing, and remarkably successful component of American's multiethnic mosiac. Their economic and educational achievements, in fact, have earned them the title of a "model minority." Yet in the following articles, Ronald Takaki, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of California at Berkeley and a leading commentator on Asian-American affairs, questions the accuracy of that description. What does he see at most misleading about it? To what factors does he attribute the relative success of Aisan-Americans? What does he see as the particular needs of Asian-American university students?
"-end of quote for introduction

a. Have Asian Americans Made It? (select quotes)
"Lily Lee Chen is not merely the first Chinese American women to be mayor in the United States... elevated by Jay Mathew... She is a graduate of San Francisco State University, whose President is Dr. Chia-Wei Woo... she was sworn in as mayor of Monterey Park... by U.S. Disctrict Court Judge Robert M. Takasugi, one of the 110,000 Japanese Americans interned by the fed. gov. during World War II..."

"Mathews provides surprising statistics on incomes which seem to demonstrate convincingly that Chinese Americans and Asian Americans in general have not only entered the middle class - they have overtaken white Americans. Chinese American family incomes in California in 1980 have surpassed white family incomes: $24,409 to 22,753. And Asian American families earn annually $699 more than white families."

"This Asian American success has already been celebrated by Hoover Institution scholar Thomas Sowell in his book 'Ethic America,' published in 1981. According to Sowell, family incomes for Chinese and Japanese Americans exceed the national average by 12 and 32 percent, respectively."

"How can we know whether or not Asian Americans are as successful as Mathews and Sowell claim? Statistics can often yield conclusions we are looking for rather than ones we need to understand reality. In other words, how we measure success may determine our conclusions."

b. Asian Americans in the University (select quotes)
"In its recent celebration of Aisan American success in higher education, 'Newsweek' reported the dazzling achievements of a new generation of Asian Americans on college campuses. At leading universities everywhere - from Cornell and MIT to Stanford and UCLA, they represent a rapidly increasing student population. One of four undergraduates at UC Berkeley is an Asian American. In fact, Asian Americans are the most highly educated group in the United States: in 1980, one third of all Asian Americans aged 25 and over had four or more years of college education, compared with eight precent of Blacks and 17 percent of whites.

"For most Asian Americans, the university has become a technical school: they are almost twice as likely as whites to major in science, mathematics or engineering. At Berkeley, the overwhelming majority of them are in technical disciplines, especially electrical engineering and computer sciences."

"Thus, many Asian Americans in the university find themselves avoiding fields which require strong competency in English - their second language."

"When Asian American students arrive at the university, they find little there to interest them in the humanities and social sciences. Even those who are American-born and those who have a perfect command of the English language are not drawn into these areas of learning. In terms of role models, they do not see Asian American professors in fields like sociology, history, psychology, political science and literature. And when they teke courses in these areas, they often feel left out."

"And 'Newsweek' sanguinely concludes: 'Given Asian Americans' extraordinary record of accomplishmen, this too will surely come.' Actually, give what is happening without and whithin the university, I would not be so sure."

-end of quotes-

In conclusion, I'd like to say that regardless of nationality, it is the core of internal character and one's personal outlook of life that will greatly determine whether you are willing to allow society to weigh you down, or to even attempt to perceive all/or any of the factors that may or may not logically come together, but to say, if you are willing to lead society to brigher horizons?
If you don't get accepted into a college, try another. If you still can't figure it out, do a community college, then go to a university, then to almost any school that will accept you afterwards.

As ATI would put it, "made with no limits in mind."

p.s. There are only 2 rules to life =

1. the ones you accept,
2. and the ones you make for yourself.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
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You guys give SAT scores too much credit...if you can prep for the test and improve your score a few hundred points you know it isn't really that great of a measurement of much. I've seen friends go from 1100 to 1500 because after the first time they got a book and spent 30 minutes a day.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: senseamp
Having gone to an Ivy League school, I will certify that there are plenty of Asian students there.
I assume they are all stuck up little sh*ts too.

Actually, no they are not. All that I knew were well rounded down to earth people, and they didn't have perfect SATs. Maybe therein lies the issue. It's not enough, nor is it necessary to have perfect SATs. Maybe their essays were cookiecutter and boring. Colleges have specific ideas for who they want for their student bodies. Maybe a lot of asian students are doing the exact same things, and there is only so much of that a university wants. So diversify, do something different from your peers.
 

LordMorpheus

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2002
6,871
1
0
I had a good SAT score (~1500) and good grades (~3.7).

I wasn't near the top of my class, but I had two years as the lead design on the school's FIRST robotics team as well as several other major activities I stayed involved in, not to mention a solid employment history. I'm convinced that if your grades/scores are acceptable to the school they really don't care all that much about them, it's those other boxes you want to worry about on the app.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Vertimus
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: Clocker
i am not saying or implying that this kid or even i the op was naive. in fact it was kind of sad. since if you were very rich you could buy your way into any of those ivy league schools. 20/20 illustrated a good example (Pres Bush C student).

What sort of chance will the 1600/4.3 kid have of being elected President in his lifetime?
smart people shouldn't waste their time in politics

Lemme guess- you're fed up with politics, and your solution is to ban all smart people from politics so it will become worse.

Smart does not mean they will make a good politician.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Clocker
browntown it is not silly. the person interviewed who said people can buy their way in the university rep or dean or something. i suppose you could disagree with him.

but here is an example, again 20/20, ralph lauren's kid gets accepted as a conditional admitee, ralph lauren donates millions to school, later the school's dean becomes a member of the board of ralph lauren's company, kid graduates.

it's not just money, it's also networking. i know the Forever 21 family...one of the daughters got rejected from every Ivy League. She transferred to the fake Ivy league after attending an East coast school for a year.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
For most Asian Americans, the university has become a technical school: they are almost twice as likely as whites to major in science, mathematics or engineering. At Berkeley, the overwhelming majority of them are in technical disciplines, especially electrical engineering and computer sciences.

Translation: Asian Americans are training to be employees while the rest are bound to be their employers.

So sad.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
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Originally posted by: JS80
For most Asian Americans, the university has become a technical school: they are almost twice as likely as whites to major in science, mathematics or engineering. At Berkeley, the overwhelming majority of them are in technical disciplines, especially electrical engineering and computer sciences.

Translation: Asian Americans are training to be employees while the rest are bound to be their employers.

So sad.

Maybe but we all know there can only be so many employers, so what do the rest of you people who aim to be employers do? You can only claim so many positions before the 1600/4.5 GPA kids have a clear edge over you. We Asians get into your top schools, and we ask where are all the white people? Only a few white people rule this country and just because that is so doesn't mean the rest of the white population wields that much power. The rest of them whine and land in the middle class and live a life of debt. While we Asians don't shoot for the top, we aim for middle-upper class. A family of two engineers is easily middle-upper class with each person earning double the average national income already. A family of doctors makes enough money that they can easily retire by the time they're 50.

So sure we may not aim at the highest levels, but Asians do well enough that we don't need to b!tch about things like affirmative action and minimum wage.

Finally, sure it may be true that someone got rejected from every Ivy, but we all know that the personal statement is the main factor.

My stats were not impressive. I had what.. a 1390 on my SAT I? 800 on my Math IIC, 800 on Writing, and 780 on Chem. I had a 4.3 GPA making me around rank 43 out of a class of 515 people. I didn't stand out that much. I got into all the schools in the UC system, an Ivy (I only applied to 1) and pretty decent schools like GA Tech, CMU, U$C, etc... The only schools I got rejected from were MIT, StanFUrd, WUSTL (waitlist), Harvey Mudd (waitlist). Big deal. You hear tons of stories of kids with 1200s get into UCLA and then you hear people who can't get into Ivies with 1600s.

I had a friend who scored a 1580 and he turned in a BS essay to UPenn 2 months late. hE thought he was screwed so he BSed an essay for fun 58 days later and got in... Hah.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: DLeRium
Originally posted by: JS80
For most Asian Americans, the university has become a technical school: they are almost twice as likely as whites to major in science, mathematics or engineering. At Berkeley, the overwhelming majority of them are in technical disciplines, especially electrical engineering and computer sciences.

Translation: Asian Americans are training to be employees while the rest are bound to be their employers.

So sad.

Maybe but we all know there can only be so many employers, so what do the rest of you people who aim to be employers do? You can only claim so many positions before the 1600/4.5 GPA kids have a clear edge over you. We Asians get into your top schools, and we ask where are all the white people? Only a few white people rule this country and just because that is so doesn't mean the rest of the white population wields that much power. The rest of them whine and land in the middle class and live a life of debt. While we Asians don't shoot for the top, we aim for middle-upper class. A family of two engineers is easily middle-upper class with each person earning double the average national income already. A family of doctors makes enough money that they can easily retire by the time they're 50.

So sure we may not aim at the highest levels, but Asians do well enough that we don't need to b!tch about things like affirmative action and minimum wage.

Finally, sure it may be true that someone got rejected from every Ivy, but we all know that the personal statement is the main factor.

My stats were not impressive. I had what.. a 1390 on my SAT I? 800 on my Math IIC, 800 on Writing, and 780 on Chem. I had a 4.3 GPA making me around rank 43 out of a class of 515 people. I didn't stand out that much. I got into all the schools in the UC system, an Ivy (I only applied to 1) and pretty decent schools like GA Tech, CMU, U$C, etc... The only schools I got rejected from were MIT, StanFUrd, WUSTL (waitlist), Harvey Mudd (waitlist). Big deal. You hear tons of stories of kids with 1200s get into UCLA and then you hear people who can't get into Ivies with 1600s.

I had a friend who scored a 1580 and he turned in a BS essay to UPenn 2 months late. hE thought he was screwed so he BSed an essay for fun 58 days later and got in... Hah.

touche
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: JS80
For most Asian Americans, the university has become a technical school: they are almost twice as likely as whites to major in science, mathematics or engineering. At Berkeley, the overwhelming majority of them are in technical disciplines, especially electrical engineering and computer sciences.

Translation: Asian Americans are training to be employees while the rest are bound to be their employers.

So sad.

Not really. EE and CS are actually very good fields to major in if you want to move on to MBA later. Especially fields like finance that require good quantitative skills. Engineering training makes you much better prepared for a lot of different professions that depend on logical and rigorous thinking. So even if you plan to go into business, engineering is a good educational choice. You can start your own business if you are a good engineer and want to venture out on your own. Of course if you are pulling in 6 figures with bennies after a few years, you may just want to stay in a corporation and work normal hours.
Different strokes for different folks.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
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stepping on asians is just dandy it seems. if he were black and got rejected this way it would create a sh*t storm. a minority becoming too successful? how dare they! down in the muck u should stay, know your place.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
eh shelby steele has a good book called "white guilt" on why we have this kind of bs
 

LongCoolMother

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2001
5,675
0
0
ivy league schools do not necessarily look for high scores. Stanford (whose admissions are as tough or tougher than ivy leafue admissions) accepted two of my friends. One had a 2240 on his Sats, the other had 2170. far from perfect. Yet they were incredibly intelligent and capable people. The one with a 2170 was offered a full ride to Princeton (with a personal letter from the dean of admissions) and Yale. He chose stanford.

my SAT was 2190, higher than one of them. I was neither accepted to stanford nor Yale-- I was not as well qualified as this friend of mine was-- he had a better personal statement, clear goal, etc. etc. One of my current floormates had a 2340 on his SAT. He was not accepted to Stanford. My other friend scored in the 2300s as well. She was not accepted to Stanford, but instead attends MIT.

The other thing is that not all Ivies are so competitive. People with lower stats (like mine) could much more easily attend one of the 'smaller' ivies such as dartmouth/brown/upenn/cornell/etc.

My point is, perfect SAT scores will do nothing for you. Its the combination of good scores with an array of other good qualities that colleges look for.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
39
91
Originally posted by: Baked
LOL, ownage. It's the ivy league schools' way of telling you that you need to do a lot of things besides hiding in your room and memorizing all the SAT answers you bought from the black market.

:thumbsup:
You could have the best GPA and the highest SAT score.. but that doesn't mean you're intelligent. But what it could mean is that you have no life/personality, and just spend all day studying like a lifeless, conformist soldier.
That and paying $40/year to join honor societies so you can have your name on a bullsh!t money raking list to proudly present on your college transcripts doesn't mean jack sh!t either. People are all worked up in creating this bullsh!t image to get into bullsh!t prestigious schools. It's not about merit, talent, or passion anymore. It's all fvcking packaging your bullsh!t nicely.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,359
1,543
126
There's no such thing as reverse discrimination.

They need to take all mention of race off of the applications.
They need to take the names off of applications and put numbers in their places.
They need to approve/deny applications on their merit.
Then they need to match the numbers up with their names and send out acceptance and rejection letters.
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
2
81
SAT scores and grades aren't everything to a school that can almost have their pick of straight A students.

 

flyboy84

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2004
1,731
0
76
1. the SAT is becoming much less important in college admissions these days.
2. asians are not considered an "underrepresented minority," which is what affirmative action programs, etc. usually apply to.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
some schools have quotas for asians (harvard does)... you know if this kid was hispanic he'd be in
 

Paddington

Senior member
Jun 26, 2006
538
0
0
I know lots of people with perfect SAT scores who got rejected Harvard, MIT, Cornell, etc.

Having a perfect SAT score is not some kind of entitlement. It's also not even that hard to get. Many people take the SAT over and over again, and the schools only look at your highest score.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,965
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..institutional liberals in academia don't consider you minorities. You don't fit the liberal/socialist paradigm of dependency. That's what happens when you do things the old fashioned way..you earned your good grades and station in life rather then affirmative action/social welfare junkies. :Q
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,732
10,259
146
:laugh:Thank you, OP, thank you!

This news both restores a good portion of my faith in humanity and makes me indescribably happy!