No, quotas are illegal and have been for a while (as best I can remember). What's not illegal is using race as a factor in determining a candidate's credentials.
Just a few interesting findings/facts related to the whole affirmative action deal:
1) Regardless of grades/standardized test scores/extracurriculars, minorities as a whole tend to hold more positions of community leadership/activism after graduation than their non-minority counterparts.
2) "Stereotype threat" effects can occur with any given population if the stereotypes are invoked prior to testing, resulting in some pretty serious drops in performance.
3) Just using the SAT as a scapegoat/example, its results have only been correlated with first semester freshman year grades in males. That's it.
These are the types of issues that pop up when people try to debate the race topic in education, and are part of the reason why coming up with a viable solution is so difficult.
you're right, i was wrong... i shouldn't have used the word 'quota'. what i meant to say is that they don't want to admit too many asians, so while there is no official hard quota, being asian counts against you in their admissions decision and they will do their best to end up with the racial composition they want
Its not so much as being asian, its moreso being of not being a under-represented minority. The same problem exists if you are white. But then some argue that whites have the advantage of legacy which some consider just as unfair.
My take on affirmative action is that I do not believe in it. I understand that these under-represented minorities as a whole have a more difficult time of getting a good K-12 education, and because of that, their SAT scores, etc are not as high as they could be. I also understand the need to give them some sort of preferential treatment when it comes to admissions. My problem with affirmative action is, what about the whites/asians who were also raised in the same lower-socioeconomic conditions? Why do they not get the same treatment when it comes to admissions?
My other problem is that those belonging to the under-represented minority group who are not poor, who grew up in a privledged environment. Why do they deserve to get a boost in admissions based solely on their race? They could afford the same private schools, the same tutors, etc.
I had a 3.1 gpa in highscool and still managed to get waitlisted at 3 ivies.
Why? No, not my SAT's
Because I went out and busted my ass for other people doing thousands of hours of community service rather than being subservent to my academic ego/gpa. That said, I could have worked harder and watched less college football ^-^
Why? No, not my SAT's
Because I went out and busted my ass for other people doing thousands of hours of community service rather than being subservent to my academic ego/gpa. That said, I could have worked harder and watched less college football ^-^
It has very little to do with good schools and $$ provided to those schools, it is the domestic learning environment. Children who don't have books at home or parents who read to them or value education in their vocation.
Read Class and Schools by Richard Rothstein for a good summary. (Published at an IVY TOO
Columbia)i'm not entirely certain on this, but i believe that often times it hurts more to be asian than white for admissions, because there are many more qualified asians relative to their representation in the general population than compared to whites, and schools try to get the racial breakdown something close to that of the general population. this is just what i've heard through the grapevine though.
Actually no, in my experience it means they are hard working, not intelligent. I have a freind who is a chinese female, 4.0 GPA IB Diploma, 2400 SAT's, 800 on all her subject tests. However, she is not "intelligent" she is very very very hard working. Another freind of mine is also Diploma, pretty good SAT scores, above 3.5 GPA but he is much more intelligent than that chinese girl. In my math class he came up with theorems that my math teacher had not even heard of (This is IB Calculus btw).
Also I have to add that these kind of Asians are not quite unique anymore. There are plenty of Asian kids with a 4.0 and 2400, which is why Ivy's look for that special something.
Originally posted by: Brackis
It has very little to do with good schools and $$ provided to those schools, it is the domestic learning environment. Children who don't have books at home or parents who read to them or value education in their vocation.
Read Class and Schools by Richard Rothstein for a good summary. (Published at an IVY TOO
Well, if you can afford to attend a prestigious prep school, I am going on the assumption that your parents are well-educated, and therefore are prividing a good home environment. While it may be a little basic to say that poor neighborhoods offer poor public schools, and rich neighborhoods offer good public schools (or at least allow the parents to send their children to good private ones).
I took a class last year in college all about asian americans in the work place, and the whole affirmative action. The idea of a glass ceiling exists, whereas Asian-Americans are able to make it through entry level and middle level positions, but at some point they hit a wall and are unable to move up more senior/management positions. This was actually pretty surprising to me, as it never occured to me this was happening. If you think about it however, the number of Asian CEOs in America is very low when you compare it to the % of Asians who are working at such companies.
so other posters have brought this up. i guess if you were any other minority except asian then there would be a much greater chance of acceptance. For example, clarence thomas supreme court judge was asked to attend yale law. i dont take anything away from clarence thomas. because if i was given the opportunity i would take it.
Originally posted by: jaybert
Originally posted by: Brackis
It has very little to do with good schools and $$ provided to those schools, it is the domestic learning environment. Children who don't have books at home or parents who read to them or value education in their vocation.
Read Class and Schools by Richard Rothstein for a good summary. (Published at an IVY TOO
Well, if you can afford to attend a prestigious prep school, I am going on the assumption that your parents are well-educated, and therefore are prividing a good home environment. While it may be a little basic to say that poor neighborhoods offer poor public schools, and rich neighborhoods offer good public schools (or at least allow the parents to send their children to good private ones).
I took a class last year in college all about asian americans in the work place, and the whole affirmative action. The idea of a glass ceiling exists, whereas Asian-Americans are able to make it through entry level and middle level positions, but at some point they hit a wall and are unable to move up more senior/management positions. This was actually pretty surprising to me, as it never occured to me this was happening. If you think about it however, the number of Asian CEOs in America is very low when you compare it to the % of Asians who are working at such companies.
Studies have shown that children of minority parents who have the IQ levels of their peers and go to elite private schools underperform compared to their white counterparts. Read the book, it's a good one.
- Jun 10, 2004
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It's not that uncommon. Aced the SAT I/II's, was co-val. I didn't get accepted to any of the Ivies either. Duke is a better fit for me though
Edit: And those people saying they're looking for more "well-rounded" candidates - you're right to some extent, but I believe they look for students exceptional in one area/activity more. I was a "well-rounded" student with excellent academics but was not exceptional in any particular extra-curricular activity. Mainly because I spent too much time on ATOT (j/k)
who cares? Ivy schools are over-rated for undergrad. Getting your ph.D at an Ivy can have great impact however. Do well, in undergrad, get some patents and papers in undergrad research, and you have a decent chance of getting into a school with the best respective program.
ColdFusion718
Diamond Member
- Mar 4, 2000
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Not all of them are like that man. My high school physics teacher went to Harvard (his roommate was Matt Leblanc <---I think that's what he said) and the guy is totally down to earth. He took a teaching job in a crappy neighbhorhood which paid $30k/year vs. taking an investment banker job which would have paid him $120k/year.
I went to an Ivy League, i dont consider myself stuck up. Granted, I went to Cornell and not HYP. We're more of the working man's ivy league
While I'm sure there are a bunch of stuck up people @ Ivy league schools, thats like that everywhere.
so I'm now wondering. what does it take to get a full ride to an ivy league school?
any experiences or information?
If getting in is that hard already, how bout a full scholarship?
any experiences or information?
If getting in is that hard already, how bout a full scholarship?
Pretty sure none of the ivy league schools give out academic scholarships, financial aid only (at least the case at cornell, but i'm pretty sure its all ivy league schools). No athletic scholarships either, but there are ways around that I'm sure (i.e. awarding them a larger than normal need-based scholarship)
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