If THIS is the best HDR can do...

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: xtknight
This does no justice to HDR. They should show stuff like this instead: http://www.bit-tech.net/content_images/hl2_hdr_overview/hdr_demo1.jpg

thats a horrid example. to do a fair comparison, you need to compare the same areas of picture to show the difference.

At least it's not oversaturated. Here's one from Far Cry:

http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5ODgwOTkwNERKN2E2QlpNZmRfNF8zX2wuanBn

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Nope, and no AF with soft shadows either.

soft shadows
soft shadows with af

I have no clue where that silly myth came from but it needs to die already.

Wow, that difference is way too minute to be worth any frame drop.

I'm confused about what I'm going to be able to run. Everyone says you'll need dual-core and likely a PPU card to be able to run UE3 stuff well, but the first UE3-based game will be out this year? Uh, I don't think MOST people will have dual core CPUs anytime this year, let alone a PPU card, let alone a next-gen graphics card.

Then, with ANY game with HDR, will my X800 XL run it at all? Run it but poorly? Run it okay? Or does it just depend on the game and its methods?

Judging AF IQ with that static screenshot is akin to judging HDR from your OP screenshot:roll: You can really tell from that shot that its not worth the penalty?

You'll know what it takes to run software when it comes out..untill then its all BS speculation. Chances are you'll be running advanced features of future software at less than than the highest settings with your X800 XL, and HDR implementations will probably run poorly.

Although my experience with Unreal engines is that it runs pretty good on a lot less hardware than pre-launch speculation makes it out.

I won't deny that in each I was judging static shots. And make no mistake, I never said HDR is a pointless feature. I just said that if that screenshot was any indication of what it did for games, it doesn't excite me. But of course, as people have proven in this thread, that screenshot alone does not do HDR true justice.

For the other screen, it was enough for me to determine that the AF wasn't very important. I only see its effects on that ground texture in the background. That's something I'd hardly notice during gameplay.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Speaking of NV and their quality... http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/g70_flimmern/

LOL

Were you surfing German websites today Ackmed?

Actually, no. I found that surfing B3D.

And that German site is very reputable, and several years old. Just because they're in Germany, doesnt mean they dont know what they're talking about. There are LOTS of non-native English speaking hardware sites out there, that are very good.

The shimmering in AF is a real problem. No matter if you accept that or not.

 

[botd4u]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Speaking of NV and their quality... http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/g70_flimmern/

Are we germans? Do we look like krautz in anyway? I think not

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: botd4u

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Speaking of NV and their quality... http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/g70_flimmern/

Are we germans? Do we look like krautz in anyway? I think not

That depends on who you ask. Im 50% German, so I would say I do.

Because the issue is divided by the north atlantic ocean... it doesnt happen over here, right?

Use a translator, its not hard. You should already have one as a favorite.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Speaking of NV and their quality... http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/g70_flimmern/

LOL

Were you surfing German websites today Ackmed?

Actually, no. I found that surfing B3D.

And that German site is very reputable, and several years old. Just because they're in Germany, doesnt mean they dont know what they're talking about. There are LOTS of non-native English speaking hardware sites out there, that are very good.

The shimmering in AF is a real problem. No matter if you accept that or not.

Only English speaking sites are reputable.






Not. You know that's not what I meant, I meant it's odd you were out looking at a German review of AF.

I don't personally like translations much, half the time the text comes out like "GeForce blitzing shaders mount ferocious attack on gaming artichokes." I usually don't bother.

BTW- what does a German review of AF IQ have to do with HDR? Totally OT

 

[rbV5]

For the other screen, it was enough for me to determine that the AF wasn't very important. I only see its effects on that ground texture in the background. That's something I'd hardly notice during gameplay

For me anyway, AF is something I use the highest setting I possibly can. Even as dark as that particular shot is, I can clearly see the better texture filtering on the floor textures and the mip-map boundary on the right (many times those mip-map boundaries can be pretty distracting) From that I'll assume a pretty fair IQ difference at least in some areas.

I can also see the 1 fps difference, which I don't know if its indicative of the actual performance hit, (and setting aside the unplayable 30fps) , I'd take that hit anyday.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Speaking of NV and their quality... http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/g70_flimmern/

LOL

Were you surfing German websites today Ackmed?

Actually, no. I found that surfing B3D.

And that German site is very reputable, and several years old. Just because they're in Germany, doesnt mean they dont know what they're talking about. There are LOTS of non-native English speaking hardware sites out there, that are very good.

The shimmering in AF is a real problem. No matter if you accept that or not.

Only English speaking sites are reputable.






Not. You know that's not what I meant, I meant it's odd you were out looking at a German review of AF.

I don't personally like translations much, half the time the text comes out like "GeForce blitzing shaders mount ferocious attack on gaming artichokes." I usually don't bother.

BTW- what does a German review of AF IQ have to do with HDR? Totally OT

I told you why I was looking at that site. It was linked from the best techincal forums (imo) there is.

If your translations are that bad, then you need a new one. I linked it because no English speaking hardware site has written about it, yet.

btw - this was off topic long ago, you were posting about AF already with soft shadows

edit, whats funny is I thought about you when I was out driving. Had to run a few errands, and my wife called me asking for me to get some Rollos, her favorite candy. She can eat two easily in a sitting. You follow me even irl, sigh.

 

[archcommus]

Alright, so we've already established that HDR will be good but just possibly isn't implemented real well yet.

I'm interested in what games will be using it WELL soon, what cards will run it decently, and of course how UE3 will implement it and what the first game to be doing it with that engine is.

 

[fstime]

Without HDR looks better to me.

 

[BFG10K]

Wow, that difference is way too minute to be worth any frame drop.

Screenshots don't really do AF justice and modern cards can do 16xAF at basically no performance hit.

As far as I'm concerned running less than 16xAF is sub-standard rendering.

 

[Rock Hydra]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
2 things:
1) That's use of HDR in an RTS - FPS may be different, plus it's only one shot, and when moving it may seem totalyl different to a static image.
2) It's early days yet

Yeah. Who says it should be the perfect solution in the first attempt at something like this. But I think it's a step in the right direction.

 

[CP5670]

HDR is awesome in the handful of games that support it right now, but it looks terrible in that particular screenshot. I don't like the HDR bloom effect that appears in some games (looks more goofy than realistic), but the HDR lighting is worth dropping the resolution down for. There is a performance hit but it's not much more than that of 4X AA. I don't use AA in newer games anyway (increasing the resolution looks better) so that's not an issue for me.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Speaking of NV and their quality... http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/g70_flimmern/

There is a perfectly legitimate English site that talked about this some time ago (like the launch of the 6-series), you may have heard of it, it's called Anandtech.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2023&p=8

The advantage is that NVIDIA now has a lower impact when enabling anisotropic filtering, and we will also be doing a more apples to apples comparison when it comes to anisotropic filtering (ATI also makes use of a weighted Manhattan scheme for distance calculations). In games where angled, textured, surfaces rotate around the z-axis (the axis that comes "out" of the monitor) in a 3d world, both ATI and NVIDIA will show the same fluctuations in anisotropic rendering quality. We would have liked to see ATI alter their implementation rather than NVIDIA, but there is something to be said for both companies doing the same thing.

Nice how you will point this out about NVIDIA, but just forget to mention that ATI is using the same method and suffers from the same IQ degredation.

 

[bonhimself]

this

and

this

do A LOT more justice to HDR. those screens were just bad, plus im sure the effect will improve over time.

 

[Ackmed]

That was well over a year ago, and has not been talked about with the new cards.

You can clearly see in the video clips that NV suffers far more image quality loss, than ATi. Its up to you to accept it, admit it, and move on or not.

 

[imported_Soldier]

Originally posted by: CP5670
HDR is awesome in the handful of games that support it right now, but it looks terrible in that particular screenshot. I don't like the HDR bloom effect that appears in some games (looks more goofy than realistic)

I think a lot of people feel like you do, but if you go outside (I doubt some people here have seen sun in weeks..lol) and look around at cars, houses, etcetera, you'll see that the HDR lighting is actually quite realistic. I think people have just gotten used to clear/sharply rendered textures in most recent games and when presented with slightly glossy/glowing reflective surfaces in a game people dont like it. Too much reality...lol

 

[CP5670]

Well as I said, I do really like the HDR lighting and use it in any game that supports it. It's just that overexposure/bloom thing that looks silly, which seems to be a separate effect that only appears in some of the current HDR games (it's in Far Cry, for example, but not SCCT).

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
edit, whats funny is I thought about you when I was out driving. Had to run a few errands, and my wife called me asking for me to get some Rollos, her favorite candy. She can eat two easily in a sitting. You follow me even irl, sigh.

We'd probably be friends irl. How many people irl do you know that could talk about video cards with you like me, and vice-versa?

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
That was well over a year ago, and has not been talked about with the new cards.

You can clearly see in the video clips that NV suffers far more image quality loss, than ATi. Its up to you to accept it, admit it, and move on or not.

With the NV optimizations on, I agree. However, with them off, NV and ATI look about the same to me.