if the south had won the Civil War....

[techs]

I think the world has figured out that paying poor people is much more productive than slavery.

Yes, the illusion of freedom works much better than slavery.

 

[sonicdrummer20]

Well i can tell you one thing, we wouldn't have as much of a problem with crime in the south...

*dons flamesuit*

 

[techs]

Well i can tell you one thing, we wouldn't have as much of a problem with crime in the south...

*dons flamesuit*

Yes, we all know how safe it was in South Africa before the white regime gave up power.
And California would be rolling in money, since it wouldn't have to subsidize the failed southern states like it has the last 50 years.

 

[ViviTheMage]

We'll never know.

 

[Codewiz]

Yeah, if they did that it would have been great.
Only problem was they didn't. And if left on their own they might still have slavery. So a "somewhat later date" might STILL be in the future.
I wonder how you would feel as a slave knowing you and your kids, and grandkids and their kids would be slaves, because it was better if your master willingly freed you, instead of being forced to free you.

I love how people act like the south is the only place in the US racism really exists.

I hate to shatter your glass house but racism exists just as much in california as it does in South Carolina.

Do you really want to know the difference? Do you want to understand why you hear about it more in the south? Because unlike other places the population of whites and blacks is FAR FAR more equal here. Why do you think people pay attention to South Carolina during election time?

Whites in SC
2,695,560

Blacks in SC
1,185,216

So of course there are going to be MORE racist issues that are brought to light because there is a bigger chance of it happening in general.

I don't judge any person by their skin color. I somehow escaped the grip of racism. My mom is racist. She knows better than to say anything out of line with me.

She is also learning that shortly, she will be in a WORLD of hurt because my wife and I are going to be adopting a child(most likely black). And while race doesn't matter to us, we know it matters to a lot of people. Especially when you become a multi-racial family. A whole new set of problems come up.

So my point is that racism exists. No doubt. I see it where I live. I just find it amazing that people think it really only exists in the south. Or that it is that much worse in the south. It isn't. We just have more opportunity for it to occur as blacks and whites are living together. Specifically, my neighborhood(upper middle class) has people of all races in it. No one cares. You don't see white flight like you do in places in California.

 

[darkxshade]

Assuming the South had won and didn't affect the continuity of the rest of the world such that Nazi Germany still came to power, I wonder if America would have allied with them instead?

 

[rudder]

would we still have slavery?

There still is slavery. Even in the U.S. In the U.S. it is not as open, but it exists.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Yeah, if they did that it would have been great.
Only problem was they didn't. And if left on their own they might still have slavery. So a "somewhat later date" might STILL be in the future.
I wonder how you would feel as a slave knowing you and your kids, and grandkids and their kids would be slaves, because it was better if your master willingly freed you, instead of being forced to free you.

They would have freed the slaves, and for reasons that would have been largely out of their control anyway. Appearances are everything though. The time would have come when slaves were no longer the most efficient way to do the things the southern states needed to do. There was already a movement in the south that favored the freeing of slaves, and it would have quickly gained traction when slavery was already seeming less necessary. Indeed, when farmers moving to steam-powered agricultural tools began out producing their neighbors who still used slaves the plantation owners themselves would probably jump on board. People are always looking for a reason to feel good about themselves.

This change likely would have occurred within 20 years of the end of the Civil War. Of course you'll wonder if better white/black relations in the south is worth an additional 20 years of forced servitude by an entire race of people, and I couldn't say for sure. I can say that the conditions freed blacks lived in for the 20 years following their emancipation weren't any better than the conditions they had as slaves. In fact, with a spiteful white population still in control of most aspects of southern life, it was likely worse for freed blacks. A south that had voluntarily decided to free slaves might have followed that up with immediate reparations, or if not it would at least be constituted of a population that was far more willing to support recently freed blacks rather than motivated by anger to continue oppressing them in any way possible.

 

[ShawnD1]

Yes, the illusion of freedom works much better than slavery.

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure the Chinese know they're slaves

 

[destrekor]

No but, we'd probably have become an English colony again.

this.

The U.S. going to war with the south, and making it chiefly about slavery, was the only thing keeping the Brits out of the mess. While the Brits would love to claim the territory again, fighting over slavery was kind of something in common with the Brits since they basically completely abolished the practice all over their empire at that point. And they respected that, and also conveniently bought into Lincoln's entire ruse.

Why they didn't come and kick both our asses during that time is beyond me. Maybe they cared less for colonies in general at that point in time, or maybe they realized they still hadn't figured out a way to actually manage warfare across the ocean. Considering under normal circumstances they should have easily decimated us in both wars, we got very lucky they had a knack for making terrible management and policy decisions.

 

[meltdown75]

What if Wolverine was an agent of SHIELD?

 

[techs]

this.

The U.S. going to war with the south, and making it chiefly about slavery, was the only thing keeping the Brits out of the mess. While the Brits would love to claim the territory again, fighting over slavery was kind of something in common with the Brits since they basically completely abolished the practice all over their empire at that point. And they respected that, and also conveniently bought into Lincoln's entire ruse.

Why they didn't come and kick both our asses during that time is beyond me. Maybe they cared less for colonies in general at that point in time, or maybe they realized they still hadn't figured out a way to actually manage warfare across the ocean. Considering under normal circumstances they should have easily decimated us in both wars, we got very lucky they had a knack for making terrible management and policy decisions.

In the age of sail it would have been impossible for the British to have come over and kicked both our "asses".

And the army of either the North or the South would have wiped out the very small British army if they had tried it.

 

[Bo Jackson]

I'm not sure what direction this thread was going but I'll throw my two cents in because I am from Louisiana and live in New Orleans.

I think most people have the wrong idea about the South. Its really not full of inbred, retard, backwards, racist, religious bigots.

Before you judge, I just ask you to visit New Orleans one day, preferably during a fun event. New Orleans has tons of beautiful women (as does the rest of the South), amazingly great food, and it has a really special culture to this city.

Examples:

Sports:

Sugar Bowl (if you are into College Football)
New Orleans Saints Game
LSU Football Game (This is in Baton Rouge, but only an hour away, not bad)

Music:
French Quarter Fest
Jazz Fest
Voodoo Fest

Party:
Mardi Gras (A must before you die)

 

[Daverino]

A lot would have depended on when they won the war. If they won in 1861, slavery would likely have continued for some time. If they had won in 1863 or later it would have died rapidly. By 1863 the slave population in the South was seriously depleted because so many were behind Union lines and had fled. There were slaves remaining, of course, but not enough to keep the economy going. Barring a reopening of the international slave trade, slavery was dead before the war ended.

 

[nageov3t]

I'm not sure what direction this thread was going but I'll throw my two cents in because I am from Louisiana and live in New Orleans.

I think most people have the wrong idea about the South. Its really not full of inbred, retard, backwards, racist, religious bigots.

Before you judge, I just ask you to visit New Orleans one day, preferably during a fun event. New Orleans has tons of beautiful women (as does the rest of the South), amazingly great food, and it has a really special culture to this city.

Examples:

Sports:

Sugar Bowl (if you are into College Football)
New Orleans Saints Game
LSU Football Game (This is in Baton Rouge, but only an hour away, not bad)

Music:
French Quarter Fest
Jazz Fest
Voodoo Fest

Party:
Mardi Gras (A must before you die)

I think New Orleans is an island unto itself, kinda like Austin.

drive a mile out from either city and you're in inbred, retard, backwards, racist, religious bigot country.

 

[Bo Jackson]

I think New Orleans is an island unto itself, kinda like Austin.

drive a mile out from either city and you're in inbred, retard, backwards, racist, religious bigot country.

I still do not agree with this. The Gulf Coast of Mississippi is fun and pretty open. Biloxi and Gulfport. The Panhandle of Florida. I can name several cities in Louisiana that are cool. Mandeville, Hammond, Lafayette, Baton Rouge, Shreveport, Lake Charles. None of these are inbred, retard, backwards or racist. I think its an unfair generalization.

What about the positives of Louisiana and the South in general? Friendly people, great food, beautiful women (much hotter than the North), great weather, and low cost of living.

I can't say for every city in the North and Midwest, but from what I have seen they have unfriendly people, dog ugly women, bland food, and crappy weather. And these may be generalizations as well...I understand this. I am just saying it goes both ways.

 

[Martin]

There would be no slavery, but Southern Cuisine would have taken over. Everything in the US would be deep fried and doused in sugar, and the American Empire would have collapsed under its own literal weight

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

You learn history form watching anime didn't you?

Was there ever an anime based on american history?

I love how everybody blew a simple generalization out of proportion.

 

[Kirby]

If the South were to win the war, they would have needed more Smore Schnapps.

 

[rudeguy]

This kind of reminds me of the Babylon 5 where the superior alien race was visiting the station and the guy only talked to the crew through an interpretor since he felt he was above them all. That was until he saw the ghetto and how the crew had separated the lower classes from the upper classes in every way.

Or something like that

 

[rudeguy]

There would be no slavery, but Southern Cuisine would have taken over. Everything in the US would be deep fried and doused in sugar, and the American Empire would have collapsed under its own literal weight

I have not ate yet....your idea makes me wish I was whistling Dixie!

 

[ElFenix]

I think New Orleans is an island unto itself, kinda like Austin.

drive a mile out from either city and you're in inbred, retard, backwards, racist, religious bigot country.

and how is that different from any other rural area in this country?

 

[jemcam]

We would probably have more states rights and a smaller federal government. I doubt slavery would have made it this far at all. All you potheads would probably be able to just pick a state where it was legal. I think libertarianism would have been a bigger party than it is today.

 

[destrekor]

In the age of sail it would have been impossible for the British to have come over and kicked both our "asses".

And the army of either the North or the South would have wiped out the very small British army if they had tried it.

Not that simple.

We got our asses handed to us during the previous conflicts with the Brits. They made bad logistical and command decisions near the end that gave us a chance to capitalize.

Sure, since those wars the U.S. (and the C.S.A.) had amassed far larger armies. The Brits were also dialing back on expansion in general.
But they could have amassed troops off-shore in the Caribbean. Who knows if they would have even though that.
The main threat would have not been coming in to fight either or both armies alone.

It was likely that if Lincoln hadn't appeased the Brit's anti-slavery ideals, the Brits could have supported the C.S.A. in their fight for freedom, just to see the U.S.A. fail. Following likely success, Britain could have either rolled across the North or simply enjoyed laughing at them.
Those kinds of things are mostly just political theory based on the historical ideals of the different parties at the time, and obviously can't say for certain what any party would have done.

 

[OCGuy]

I think New Orleans is an island unto itself, kinda like Austin.

drive a mile out from either city and you're in inbred, retard, backwards, racist, religious bigot country.

If I go to any downtown city, where blacks and Latinos are shooting each other every day over skin color, are they not retarded/racist/backwards?

Or is racism limited to whites only?