if the situation is so urgent, why don't the big3 and UAW just renegotiate contracts now?

[Slew Foot]

I bet we can find some illegals Mexicans to do the work that Americans arent willing to do

 

[Cattlegod]

here are the pay rates for ford

http://www.uaw.org/contracts/03/ford/ford02.cfm

edit: looks like this is from the 2003 contract. so figure it is this plus 5 years of COLA increases for the highest rate.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Whats UAW and what's the big 3? is this an economy thing?

UAW = United Auto Workers Union
Big 3= Major American Automotive Manufacturers
UAW Haters = douche bag conservatives who hate uneducated workers making a living wage instead of corporate fat cats and fuckhead investors reaping all the profits.

I don't hate the UAW. There is plenty of blame to go around. The union workers need to come back to reality and accept a reasonable wage for the work/education/skill level they possess.

The management needs to cut their own salaries before asking others to take pay cuts. The management's philosophy of "my wage is fine it's those guys on the floor who make too much money" needs to change.

Apparently "livable" is 35 bucks an hour. Maybe I should have dropped out of college and went the auto worker route.

Try more like upper 20's an hour for your skilled trades, and low to mid 20's an hour for your basic line worker. Keep in mind, they're not in an air conditioned office, they're expected to do their jobs perfectly around 500x a day (not saying that happens, but, that's the expectation, and, 99.9% of the time, occurs), and in 30-35 years, they'll be physically used up.

Now keep mind that these same people are paying taxes just like you and I, and they're spending just like you and I.

Also keep in mind that it's tough to get people, even at today's wages and benefits, to stay and report to the job, and do it perfectly, day over day, year over year.

You want to cut wages past the $14 hour they'll already be starting at next year? Reduce benefits?

Who exactly are you planning to get to show up, consistantly, to do these jobs, perfectly, for these even further reduced employee compensations?

Where are you making up your decreased tax base from? How are these people going to live on even less than < $30k a year they'll be getting now?

The UAW has already said the well has run dry....and it has. Time for Management to start delivering (like they haven't consistently for the past 20 years), else it's only going to get worse...

Chuck

People in Ky, AL and TN have no problems doing that... as a matter of fact, all other non-union auto workers are able to do that. Imagine that...

You're talking as if people want UAW to work for minimum wage... we want them to work for a market-determined wage. Overinflated salary and crazy demands (job banks!!) are huge part of why GM is in such a deep shit right. Get with the program - the goldmine is gone and now you're gonna have to work like everyone else: 401K, bonuses/profit sharing when times and good and job/salary cuts when times are bad.

Tell us the wage. Tell us what they're worth. Cut right to the chase and get it right out in the open. Tell us what benefits they deserve.

You've obviously got an opinion so share it with us.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: bob4432
you guys do realize that that $72/hr rate that is being thrown around also incorporates all the taxes, social security, health, retirement benefits, etc. it is not like their check actually states wage = $72/hr. the reality of what the current worker sees is probably more in the lines of $40K-$60K/yr, if that

i am sure many of you get that end of the year paperwork from your employer showing how much they paid for everything.....

amazed at how many of you want to keep the ceos and are against the workers....sad

yes, i am aware of that... and it's still too much for screwing on nuts and bolts, and often times doing nothing at all, since the contracts pay the workers regardless of whether they're working or not, and GM cannot lay off idle workers.

First, who is telling you this lie and why are you spreading it?

People like yourself get foaming at the mouth so much over unions that you start believing all kinds of shit. You've started out with a seemingly innocuous question and it's snowballed into a melee.

You hate unions, we get it and we get it big time. It appears you hate the workers too. So be it, in this country that's allowed. The point here is that the domestics could pay their workers $.50 cents and hour force them to work 12 hour days and make them pay to park their cars and you still wouldn't be happy because they belong to the union.

You're better than they are. We get it, loud and clear. You're feel you're an educated person and we get that too. What would it take to make you happy? What wage and what benefits will make BlahBlahYouToo happy?

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
The UAW hate-bandwagon wasted no time in popping into this thread.

It's not a hate-bandwagon, it's an intelligence bandwagon. The UAW is a major contributing factor (in addition to the Big 3's own stupidity) as to why American automobile companies cannot compete globally.

Until it's fixed, they're fucked.

Its going to be sad watching the US turn into a third world country because everyone is going to be making $2/hour to compete globally.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: chucky2
I totally agree on the job bank, I think that's rediculous. In any other industry, if you don't need people, you let them go.

However...

What you are failing to realize is that the UAW, already has gone to the bone in terms of wages and bennies.

Do you realize that $15.28 is $30k a year? They are already under that. I want you to think reality. I have literally been there during training, where as temporary part time workers (Mon./Fri. only) and 89 dayers (full time, only 89 days employment) I watched the potential labor pool get paid $17.something an hour in the air conditioned upstairs to watch safety videos. Paid for 4 days of this. Listened to them talk about how they needed this job, their kids needed shoes, they needed to make bill payments, etc.

Guess what?

I watched them walk out in droves after working in 115 degree heat, doubled up on a job that one person regularly does. Translation: Even at $17.38 pay, these people Management is hiring can't/won't hack it.

HowTF are you going to get full time people, hired by the same inept Management, to sign up for that same work, doing all the work, for less???

Answer: You won't!!!

You cannot fix inept Management by further reducing the average workers compensation, it will not work!

Yes, job banks are dumb, and really should be axed. However, once you do that, Guess what?!

You still have inept Management being.....inept.

It all starts with Management. Fix that, and you fix Domestic auto.

Chuck*

*A Management employee.

College graduates earned an average of $51,206 last year, while high-school graduates earned $27,915, according to Census Bureau figures. Those with no high-school diploma earned $18,734.

these UAW workers, do they have HS diplomas or college degrees?
if just a HS diploma, they're already doing better than the average hs graduate.

it's simple, if they want to earn more, improve yourself instead of complaining about not making enough for a living and asking for handouts.
in this country where education is "free" and readily available for all children, it's nobody's fault but your own if you can't make a good living in the US.

lazy workers with this sense of entitlement :disgust:

Your life must suck if you spend your evening on a message board putting down hard working individuals trying to survive in this world. I bet when these people are on welfare when they go belly up, you'll be the first calling them leeches. Congratulations for being a piece of shit.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
here are the pay rates for ford

http://www.uaw.org/contracts/03/ford/ford02.cfm

edit: looks like this is from the 2003 contract. so figure it is this plus 5 years of COLA increases for the highest rate.

$28/hr for a janitor?

F Ford, they can burn without my tax dollars.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
here are the pay rates for ford

http://www.uaw.org/contracts/03/ford/ford02.cfm

edit: looks like this is from the 2003 contract. so figure it is this plus 5 years of COLA increases for the highest rate.

$28/hr for a janitor?

F Ford, they can burn without my tax dollars.

Yep, you could hire an entire maid service at that rate and pay them 2 hours a night and they'd be ecstatic.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
here are the pay rates for ford

http://www.uaw.org/contracts/03/ford/ford02.cfm

edit: looks like this is from the 2003 contract. so figure it is this plus 5 years of COLA increases for the highest rate.

$28/hr for a janitor?

F Ford, they can burn without my tax dollars.

Yep, you could hire an entire maid service at that rate and pay them 2 hours a night and they'd be ecstatic.

Nice way to fuel the fires Cattlegod. ALL sanitation operations have been outsourced to other companies. The domestics no longer employ persons in this capacity. This became effective with the last contract.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouTooyes, i am aware of that... and it's still too much for screwing on nuts and bolts, and often times doing nothing at all, since the contracts pay the workers regardless of whether they're working or not, and GM cannot lay off idle workers.

Are you so certain that the auto plant work is not difficult, boring, perhaps back-breaking work that needs to be done under severe time constraints? Have you ever worked at an auto plant before? I haven't, but I suspect that it's much more complicated and difficult than merely screwing nuts onto bolts.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouTooyes, i am aware of that... and it's still too much for screwing on nuts and bolts, and often times doing nothing at all, since the contracts pay the workers regardless of whether they're working or not, and GM cannot lay off idle workers.

Are you so certain that the auto plant work is not difficult, boring, perhaps back-breaking work that needs to be done under severe time constraints? Have you ever worked at an auto plant before? I haven't, but I suspect that it's much more complicated and difficult than merely screwing nuts onto bolts.

In some roles it sure is more complex and in others it truly would be as mundane as screwing nuts onto bolts and then using the torque wrench to put them to spec. Then repeat, over and over and over. Yes, definitely boring. Yes, manual labor does break the body down faster than an office job.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

these UAW workers, do they have HS diplomas or college degrees?
if just a HS diploma, they're already doing better than the average hs graduate.

it's simple, if they want to earn more, improve yourself instead of complaining about not making enough for a living and asking for handouts.
in this country where education is "free" and readily available for all children, it's nobody's fault but your own if you can't make a good living in the US.

lazy workers with this sense of entitlement :disgust:

After reading your post I wonder whether there is such a thing as lazy college-educated workers with a similar sense of entitlement--a sense that they are entitled to an upper middle class living on the backs of the uneducated people.

What if someone doesn't have a high school diploma or only graduated from high school but works a difficult and demanding job that requires learning "how-to" skills over time? Ever heard of a skilled trade?

Maybe you should stop eating your caviar and fancy wine 'n' cheeses and think about that for a while. For the record, I have two advanced college degrees but I also respect hard working blue collar workers who have obtained know-how and mechanical skills over time.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Your life must suck if you spend your evening on a message board putting down hard working individuals trying to survive in this world. I bet when these people are on welfare when they go belly up, you'll be the first calling them leeches. Congratulations for being a piece of shit.

Originally posted by: boomerang
First, who is telling you this lie and why are you spreading it?

People like yourself get foaming at the mouth so much over unions that you start believing all kinds of shit. You've started out with a seemingly innocuous question and it's snowballed into a melee.

You hate unions, we get it and we get it big time. It appears you hate the workers too. So be it, in this country that's allowed. The point here is that the domestics could pay their workers $.50 cents and hour force them to work 12 hour days and make them pay to park their cars and you still wouldn't be happy because they belong to the union.

You're better than they are. We get it, loud and clear. You're feel you're an educated person and we get that too. What would it take to make you happy? What wage and what benefits will make BlahBlahYouToo happy?

awwww... 2 UAW members from michigan getting all butt hurt because they can no longer sit on their asses and twiddle their thumbs while collecting $35/hr.

boohoohoo

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Your life must suck if you spend your evening on a message board putting down hard working individuals trying to survive in this world. I bet when these people are on welfare when they go belly up, you'll be the first calling them leeches. Congratulations for being a piece of shit.

Originally posted by: boomerang
First, who is telling you this lie and why are you spreading it?

People like yourself get foaming at the mouth so much over unions that you start believing all kinds of shit. You've started out with a seemingly innocuous question and it's snowballed into a melee.

You hate unions, we get it and we get it big time. It appears you hate the workers too. So be it, in this country that's allowed. The point here is that the domestics could pay their workers $.50 cents and hour force them to work 12 hour days and make them pay to park their cars and you still wouldn't be happy because they belong to the union.

You're better than they are. We get it, loud and clear. You're feel you're an educated person and we get that too. What would it take to make you happy? What wage and what benefits will make BlahBlahYouToo happy?

awwww... 2 UAW members from michigan getting all butt hurt because they can no longer sit on their asses and twiddle their thumbs while collecting $35/hr.

boohoohoo

one of the reasons i stay out of p&n....no connection to reality BlahBlahYouToo. let me ask you, what do you do for a living for you to pass so much judgement?

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Your life must suck if you spend your evening on a message board putting down hard working individuals trying to survive in this world. I bet when these people are on welfare when they go belly up, you'll be the first calling them leeches. Congratulations for being a piece of shit.

Originally posted by: boomerang
First, who is telling you this lie and why are you spreading it?

People like yourself get foaming at the mouth so much over unions that you start believing all kinds of shit. You've started out with a seemingly innocuous question and it's snowballed into a melee.

You hate unions, we get it and we get it big time. It appears you hate the workers too. So be it, in this country that's allowed. The point here is that the domestics could pay their workers $.50 cents and hour force them to work 12 hour days and make them pay to park their cars and you still wouldn't be happy because they belong to the union.

You're better than they are. We get it, loud and clear. You're feel you're an educated person and we get that too. What would it take to make you happy? What wage and what benefits will make BlahBlahYouToo happy?

awwww... 2 UAW members from michigan getting all butt hurt because they can no longer sit on their asses and twiddle their thumbs while collecting $35/hr.

boohoohoo

Your true intellect is showing now. Immortalized for all to see. I always know when I've hit my mark when I get this kind of reply.

Thanks, you didn't let me down.

Oh, BTW, I'm retired.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Your life must suck if you spend your evening on a message board putting down hard working individuals trying to survive in this world. I bet when these people are on welfare when they go belly up, you'll be the first calling them leeches. Congratulations for being a piece of shit.

Originally posted by: boomerang
First, who is telling you this lie and why are you spreading it?

People like yourself get foaming at the mouth so much over unions that you start believing all kinds of shit. You've started out with a seemingly innocuous question and it's snowballed into a melee.

You hate unions, we get it and we get it big time. It appears you hate the workers too. So be it, in this country that's allowed. The point here is that the domestics could pay their workers $.50 cents and hour force them to work 12 hour days and make them pay to park their cars and you still wouldn't be happy because they belong to the union.

You're better than they are. We get it, loud and clear. You're feel you're an educated person and we get that too. What would it take to make you happy? What wage and what benefits will make BlahBlahYouToo happy?

awwww... 2 UAW members from michigan getting all butt hurt because they can no longer sit on their asses and twiddle their thumbs while collecting $35/hr.

boohoohoo

Your true intellect is showing now. Immortalized for all to see. I always know when I've hit my mark when I get this kind of reply.

Thanks, you didn't let me down.

Oh, BTW, I'm retired.

ooh ooh ooh, you got me, you got me!
EVERYONE, I just got posterized by boomerang!

i'm sorry, former uaw member that's butt hurt that he can no longer receive free medical benefits for life.

 

[Triumph]

Has anyone every considered that maybe one of these companies need to die? People are talking about what will happen if they go under - all these people out of jobs, out of work, out on the streets. Well maybe that needs to happen to get to where the industry is right. To use the old phrase, you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. I say let the invisible hand do it's magical work and in 20 years or when the 3rd world war starts, we'll be out of this impending depression.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Your life must suck if you spend your evening on a message board putting down hard working individuals trying to survive in this world. I bet when these people are on welfare when they go belly up, you'll be the first calling them leeches. Congratulations for being a piece of shit.

Originally posted by: boomerang
First, who is telling you this lie and why are you spreading it?

People like yourself get foaming at the mouth so much over unions that you start believing all kinds of shit. You've started out with a seemingly innocuous question and it's snowballed into a melee.

You hate unions, we get it and we get it big time. It appears you hate the workers too. So be it, in this country that's allowed. The point here is that the domestics could pay their workers $.50 cents and hour force them to work 12 hour days and make them pay to park their cars and you still wouldn't be happy because they belong to the union.

You're better than they are. We get it, loud and clear. You're feel you're an educated person and we get that too. What would it take to make you happy? What wage and what benefits will make BlahBlahYouToo happy?

awwww... 2 UAW members from michigan getting all butt hurt because they can no longer sit on their asses and twiddle their thumbs while collecting $35/hr.

boohoohoo

Since we autoworkers were sitting on our asses doing nothing for the last 30 years, who was making the cars?

From another of my posts in P&N:

I started working as a sweeper janitor in March 1978 at Fisher Body Fort Street in Detroit. I became an apprentice Die Maker in '79.

Things have changed a little since then, in fact I'd say the biggest changes have happened in the last 10-15 years. The line moves a lot faster and the expectations are a lot higher. I remember talking about parts per hundred that were scrap. Now the numbers being batted around were parts per million. Every facet of your work-life has some parameter that tracks it. You get away with nothing.

The place I retired from was a forge making axles. We heated steel to 2150F and squished them into the shape of an axle. The average temperature in the plant in the summer was 115F. My job as a die repairman was to crawl down 10 feet into the upsetter and repair the tooling. I probably averaged 15 minutes in the upsetter, but I might be down there for an hour. The temperature down there usually was 135F and steam was coming up all around me. All the tooling was still at about 250F when I went "in the hole."

See that little area, the size very small closet, between the three things labeled "Multiple Operation Dies"? That's where Squisher made his money.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
The UAW hate-bandwagon wasted no time in popping into this thread.

It's not a hate-bandwagon, it's an intelligence bandwagon. The UAW is a major contributing factor (in addition to the Big 3's own stupidity) as to why American automobile companies cannot compete globally.

Until it's fixed, they're fucked.

Its going to be sad watching the US turn into a third world country because everyone is going to be making $2/hour to compete globally.

That's not going to be the case, but even if it was, if America can't compete in the auto industry, then America can't compete in the auto industry.

There's a difference between a "living wage" and $60k+/year (and that's not including the amazing benefits only fit for senators and UAW workers). UAW workers are, largely, uneducated and unskilled. I'm not saying I want them to live in poverty or even that I'm envious - I'm saying that their compensation is stratospherically above what the market will bare and what people of similar skill in other industries make. Their lack of education is also driving their stubbornness: they're too dumb to recognize they are their own end.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Squisher
From another of my posts in P&N:

I started working as a sweeper janitor in March 1978 at Fisher Body Fort Street in Detroit. I became an apprentice Die Maker in '79.

Things have changed a little since then, in fact I'd say the biggest changes have happened in the last 10-15 years. The line moves a lot faster and the expectations are a lot higher. I remember talking about parts per hundred that were scrap. Now the numbers being batted around were parts per million. Every facet of your work-life has some parameter that tracks it. You get away with nothing.

The place I retired from was a forge making axles. We heated steel to 2150F and squished them into the shape of an axle. The average temperature in the plant in the summer was 115F. My job as a die repairman was to crawl down 10 feet into the upsetter and repair the tooling. I probably averaged 15 minutes in the upsetter, but I might be down there for an hour. The temperature down there usually was 135F and steam was coming up all around me. All the tooling was still at about 250F when I went "in the hole."

See that little area, the size very small closet, between the three things labeled "Multiple Operation Dies"? That's where Squisher made his money.

A difficult job, yes, but not one I'd call "admirable". My grandfather performed similar work for all his life, and I respect him more than any other man I've ever met because of his commitment to his job and quality. He never made apologies for being satisfied by hard labor.

On the other hand, he wasn't making wages that were severely inflated, either, nor did he expect to. I admire him for that more than anything else. He wasn't looking for a handout. He recognized that he had no college degree. He knew his worth and blamed no one else for not being able to artificially surge beyond it. From him I learned that anything worth doing was worth doing right, and he lived that every day at his job.

Jobs like yours are dangerous and uncomfortable, but the labor market does not place you alongside college graduates with degrees in the physical sciences, etc. We can argue the merits and morals of it all day long, but it's irrelevant. The fact is, there are plenty of people who are willing and capable of doing your job, and this drives your wage down. Workers who find this unsettling or unsatisfactory are invited to fill out a FASFA and continue their education.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
lazy workers with this sense of entitlement :disgust:

:roll: I don't see them posting here while on their employers dime.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Squisher
From another of my posts in P&N:

I started working as a sweeper janitor in March 1978 at Fisher Body Fort Street in Detroit. I became an apprentice Die Maker in '79.

Things have changed a little since then, in fact I'd say the biggest changes have happened in the last 10-15 years. The line moves a lot faster and the expectations are a lot higher. I remember talking about parts per hundred that were scrap. Now the numbers being batted around were parts per million. Every facet of your work-life has some parameter that tracks it. You get away with nothing.

The place I retired from was a forge making axles. We heated steel to 2150F and squished them into the shape of an axle. The average temperature in the plant in the summer was 115F. My job as a die repairman was to crawl down 10 feet into the upsetter and repair the tooling. I probably averaged 15 minutes in the upsetter, but I might be down there for an hour. The temperature down there usually was 135F and steam was coming up all around me. All the tooling was still at about 250F when I went "in the hole."

See that little area, the size very small closet, between the three things labeled "Multiple Operation Dies"? That's where Squisher made his money.

A difficult job, yes, but not one I'd call "admirable". My grandfather performed similar work for all his life, and I respect him more than any other man I've ever met because of his commitment to his job and quality. He never made apologies for being satisfied by hard labor.

On the other hand, he wasn't making wages that were severely inflated, either, nor did he expect to. I admire him for that more than anything else. He wasn't looking for a handout. He recognized that he had no college degree. He knew his worth and blamed no one else for not being able to artificially surge beyond it. From him I learned that anything worth doing was worth doing right, and he lived that every day at his job.

Jobs like yours are dangerous and uncomfortable, but the labor market does not place you alongside college graduates with degrees in the physical sciences, etc. We can argue the merits and morals of it all day long, but it's irrelevant. The fact is, there are plenty of people who are willing and capable of doing your job, and this drives your wage down. Workers who find this unsettling or unsatisfactory are invited to fill out a FASFA and continue their education.

$20+ an hour isn't an over inflated wage, anybody worth their salt with a College Degree should easily make double that. If they don't then they aren't as valuable as they think their Degree makes them. The truth is most with those degrees do their best work getting that degree and afterwards just coast and end up Middle Management while being dissatisfied with their careers and jealous of those who aren't

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Squisher
From another of my posts in P&N:

I started working as a sweeper janitor in March 1978 at Fisher Body Fort Street in Detroit. I became an apprentice Die Maker in '79.

Things have changed a little since then, in fact I'd say the biggest changes have happened in the last 10-15 years. The line moves a lot faster and the expectations are a lot higher. I remember talking about parts per hundred that were scrap. Now the numbers being batted around were parts per million. Every facet of your work-life has some parameter that tracks it. You get away with nothing.

The place I retired from was a forge making axles. We heated steel to 2150F and squished them into the shape of an axle. The average temperature in the plant in the summer was 115F. My job as a die repairman was to crawl down 10 feet into the upsetter and repair the tooling. I probably averaged 15 minutes in the upsetter, but I might be down there for an hour. The temperature down there usually was 135F and steam was coming up all around me. All the tooling was still at about 250F when I went "in the hole."

See that little area, the size very small closet, between the three things labeled "Multiple Operation Dies"? That's where Squisher made his money.

A difficult job, yes, but not one I'd call "admirable". My grandfather performed similar work for all his life, and I respect him more than any other man I've ever met because of his commitment to his job and quality. He never made apologies for being satisfied by hard labor.

On the other hand, he wasn't making wages that were severely inflated, either, nor did he expect to. I admire him for that more than anything else. He wasn't looking for a handout. He recognized that he had no college degree. He knew his worth and blamed no one else for not being able to artificially surge beyond it. From him I learned that anything worth doing was worth doing right, and he lived that every day at his job.

Jobs like yours are dangerous and uncomfortable, but the labor market does not place you alongside college graduates with degrees in the physical sciences, etc. We can argue the merits and morals of it all day long, but it's irrelevant. The fact is, there are plenty of people who are willing and capable of doing your job, and this drives your wage down. Workers who find this unsettling or unsatisfactory are invited to fill out a FASFA and continue their education.

You don't know what a Die Maker is or does do you? The labor market does determine the wage for that job. If you knew what the job entailed, if you knew the skill level required to get the job and if you knew the education level necessary to get the job you'd realize that the analogy you're trying to make here has no basis.

You've made a gross rationalization on a group of people working for automakers based upon your bias.

Find out something about Die Making and come on back - please.

 

[dartworth]

so much hate and contempt for the working man...it is very easy to see why we are having the problems we are having

very sad

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

if UAW members weren't being grossly overcompensated, the big3 wouldn't be in the situation they're in now, would they?

why is it that the jap big3 can efficiently run a business and turn a profit but the american big3 can't?
because they're not paying janitors $28/hr and don't have $2-4k in legacy costs built into each car, allowing them to build better products and make money on each car sold.

take a look at the honda thread UAW fanboys.