if the situation is so urgent, why don't the big3 and UAW just renegotiate contracts now?

[Vette73]

Guess I will post it here to since so many idiots/trolls can't seem to get it...


Average pay for current GM workers is about the same and even lower in some cases then toyota workers when you add in bonus money toyota gives to it employees.


Was that so hard. They do not make $70+ a hour.

Want to see a real pay gap. Look how much the CEO of toyota makes and compare that to the CEO of Ford, GM, etc...

 

[conehead433]

Because they want to keep making what they're making now. They want to wait around and see if they can rip off the US taxpayer and government for as much as possible before they would ever consider taking any kind of pay cuts.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Guess I will post it here to since so many idiots/trolls can't seem to get it...


Average pay for current GM workers is about the same and even lower in some cases then toyota workers when you add in bonus money toyota gives to it employees.


Was that so hard. They do not make $70+ a hour.

Want to see a real pay gap. Look how much the CEO of toyota makes and compare that to the CEO of Ford, GM, etc...

I for one applaud you for continuing to put forth the real facts. Some of us are listening and some of us actually get it. It's a real uphill battle here I know, but please don't give up.

 

[boomerang]

There are provisions for this in their contracts. I think you'll find the contract being opened now that the money is out there with the stipulation of a plan being submitted.

You have to take into consideration how much posturing is being done. The head of the UAW is not going to roll over until he's forced to. He has to save face with his members. I'm not defending his actions here, I'm just telling it like it is. He'll now be making some changes.

Congress is no different. If the domestics had been first in line for money (before the financials), it would have more than likely sailed right through (as the financial bailout did). But now, after the financial bailout has turned sour, now that the country as a whole is up in arms, they must do some posturing. They must make some of the people believe that they are doing their due diligence.

The execs of the auto companies did their posturing too. They had no incentive to change their compensation, their lifestyle, if the money was going to come easy. Now they know that for their companies to have a chance at survival, they must feel some pain. Congress is dangling the money in front of them with the understanding that their compensation package must change.

What's going to be really interesting is what's going to happen with Chrysler. Those of us that live in Michigan and especially those of us that live in SE Michigan know all too well what's really happening at Chrysler. The Cerberus group that owns the majority stake in Chrysler has a business model if you will, of purchasing companies, splitting them up and selling them off with the obvious purpose of making boatloads of cash. They've been pretty successful thus far, but in the purchase of Chrysler they bit off way, way more than they could chew. They want out, they want out now. They have absolutely zero interest in building automobiles and keeping the company afloat.

They were obligated to make a showing before Congress and the Senate. Now that there is a real possibility of the money coming, they've got to be shitting bricks right about now.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Toyota bonuses are probalby based upon results.

The UAW pay is not.

But it is very decpetive to throw the $70+/hr rate out as if that is what the working is getting paid at.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Want to see a real pay gap. Look how much the CEO of toyota makes and compare that to the CEO of Ford, GM, etc...

Does anybody have these numbers for the lazy?

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Toyota bonuses are probalby based upon results.

The UAW pay is not.

But it is very decpetive to throw the $70+/hr rate out as if that is what the working is getting paid at.

Also don?t forget some of the Asian plants have other things built in that GM workers do not get unless the union allows it or ask for it. One thing is Nissan has a board of workers that can override a punishment from management. I saw one story that said in 8 cases 4 were upheld and 4 were over turned. Asian plants don?t vote to be union as they already have the same pay, maybe even more, and options that most American plant workers get.

That $70+ amount includes people that are retired. When you compare current workers with current workers a lot of the American workers working for Asian companies do better than American union workers. That is why the UAW does not want to give up anymore. Its not them holding the company down, it?s bad management. Rick Wagoner needs to get tossed out with the rest of the upper MGT.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Want to see a real pay gap. Look how much the CEO of toyota makes and compare that to the CEO of Ford, GM, etc...

Does anybody have these numbers for the lazy?

Here is a story from 2006...


?In a reflection of Toyota?s team-oriented approach, its executive pay is paltry by U.S. standards. Analyst Ron Tadross at Banc of America Securities estimates the total annual compensation of Toyota?s CEO at under $1 million - about as much as a vice president at GM or Ford Motor Co. makes in a good year.?


I dount its much more if any now. GM CEO has taken a cut he is down to maybe a couple million plus stocks options and such. Still more then double that of Toyota.



EDIT



"Chief Executive Rick Wagoner's salary and other compensation rose 64 percent in 2007 to about $15.7 million, mainly due to option grants, according to a proxy filed on Friday.

The GM compensation committee cited significant progress over the past few years in reducing the automaker's health care cost burden, increasing growth internationally and improvements in its cars and trucks in the 2007 awards to executives.

Wagoner's compensation rose from about $9.57 million in 2006. The figure was arrived at based on Wagoner's salary, all other compensation and the basis of annual grants.

GM paid Wagoner a salary of $1.6 million in 2007, along with $1.8 million in non-equity incentive compensation and nearly $700,000 for other compensation that includes insurance benefits, security, aircraft expenses and other factors."


So he got the union to cut the employees benifits and he gets a raise while the company is still losing money.

 

[bob4432]

you guys do realize that that $72/hr rate that is being thrown around also incorporates all the taxes, social security, health, retirement benefits, etc. it is not like their check actually states wage = $72/hr. the reality of what the current worker sees is probably more in the lines of $40K-$60K/yr, if that

i am sure many of you get that end of the year paperwork from your employer showing how much they paid for everything.....

amazed at how many of you want to keep the ceos and are against the workers....sad

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
So he got the union to cut the employees benifits and he gets a raise while the company is still losing money.

typical....

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Toyota bonuses are probalby based upon results.

The UAW pay is not.

But it is very decpetive to throw the $70+/hr rate out as if that is what the working is getting paid at.

no one said they're getting $70/hr, at least not me.
their average [/b]compensation totals $70/hr because of all the legacy costs and benefits - which is both the fault of GM mgmt and UAW's strongarm tactics.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: bob4432
you guys do realize that that $72/hr rate that is being thrown around also incorporates all the taxes, social security, health, retirement benefits, etc. it is not like their check actually states wage = $72/hr. the reality of what the current worker sees is probably more in the lines of $40K-$60K/yr, if that

i am sure many of you get that end of the year paperwork from your employer showing how much they paid for everything.....

amazed at how many of you want to keep the ceos and are against the workers....sad

yes, i am aware of that... and it's still too much for screwing on nuts and bolts, and often times doing nothing at all, since the contracts pay the workers regardless of whether they're working or not, and GM cannot lay off idle workers.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Whats UAW and what's the big 3? is this an economy thing?

UAW = United Auto Workers Union
Big 3= Major American Automotive Manufacturers
UAW Haters = douche bag conservatives who hate uneducated workers making a living wage instead of corporate fat cats and fuckhead investors reaping all the profits.

I don't hate the UAW. There is plenty of blame to go around. The union workers need to come back to reality and accept a reasonable wage for the work/education/skill level they possess.

The management needs to cut their own salaries before asking others to take pay cuts. The management's philosophy of "my wage is fine it's those guys on the floor who make too much money" needs to change.

Apparently "livable" is 35 bucks an hour. Maybe I should have dropped out of college and went the auto worker route.

Try more like upper 20's an hour for your skilled trades, and low to mid 20's an hour for your basic line worker. Keep in mind, they're not in an air conditioned office, they're expected to do their jobs perfectly around 500x a day (not saying that happens, but, that's the expectation, and, 99.9% of the time, occurs), and in 30-35 years, they'll be physically used up.

Now keep mind that these same people are paying taxes just like you and I, and they're spending just like you and I.

Also keep in mind that it's tough to get people, even at today's wages and benefits, to stay and report to the job, and do it perfectly, day over day, year over year.

You want to cut wages past the $14 hour they'll already be starting at next year? Reduce benefits?

Who exactly are you planning to get to show up, consistantly, to do these jobs, perfectly, for these even further reduced employee compensations?

Where are you making up your decreased tax base from? How are these people going to live on even less than < $30k a year they'll be getting now?

The UAW has already said the well has run dry....and it has. Time for Management to start delivering (like they haven't consistently for the past 20 years), else it's only going to get worse...

Chuck

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Whats UAW and what's the big 3? is this an economy thing?

UAW = United Auto Workers Union
Big 3= Major American Automotive Manufacturers
UAW Haters = douche bag conservatives who hate uneducated workers making a living wage instead of corporate fat cats and fuckhead investors reaping all the profits.

I don't hate the UAW. There is plenty of blame to go around. The union workers need to come back to reality and accept a reasonable wage for the work/education/skill level they possess.

The management needs to cut their own salaries before asking others to take pay cuts. The management's philosophy of "my wage is fine it's those guys on the floor who make too much money" needs to change.

Apparently "livable" is 35 bucks an hour. Maybe I should have dropped out of college and went the auto worker route.

Try more like upper 20's an hour for your skilled trades, and low to mid 20's an hour for your basic line worker. Keep in mind, they're not in an air conditioned office, they're expected to do their jobs perfectly around 500x a day (not saying that happens, but, that's the expectation, and, 99.9% of the time, occurs), and in 30-35 years, they'll be physically used up.

Now keep mind that these same people are paying taxes just like you and I, and they're spending just like you and I.

Also keep in mind that it's tough to get people, even at today's wages and benefits, to stay and report to the job, and do it perfectly, day over day, year over year.

You want to cut wages past the $14 hour they'll already be starting at next year? Reduce benefits?

Who exactly are you planning to get to show up, consistantly, to do these jobs, perfectly, for these even further reduced employee compensations?

Where are you making up your decreased tax base from? How are these people going to live on even less than < $30k a year they'll be getting now?

The UAW has already said the well has run dry....and it has. Time for Management to start delivering (like they haven't consistently for the past 20 years), else it's only going to get worse...

Chuck

People in Ky, AL and TN have no problems doing that... as a matter of fact, all other non-union auto workers are able to do that. Imagine that...

You're talking as if people want UAW to work for minimum wage... we want them to work for a market-determined wage. Overinflated salary and crazy demands (job banks!!) are huge part of why GM is in such a deep shit right. Get with the program - the goldmine is gone and now you're gonna have to work like everyone else: 401K, bonuses/profit sharing when times and good and job/salary cuts when times are bad.

 

[chucky2]

I totally agree on the job bank, I think that's rediculous. In any other industry, if you don't need people, you let them go.

However...

What you are failing to realize is that the UAW, already has gone to the bone in terms of wages and bennies.

Do you realize that $15.28 is $30k a year? They are already under that. I want you to think reality. I have literally been there during training, where as temporary part time workers (Mon./Fri. only) and 89 dayers (full time, only 89 days employment) I watched the potential labor pool get paid $17.something an hour in the air conditioned upstairs to watch safety videos. Paid for 4 days of this. Listened to them talk about how they needed this job, their kids needed shoes, they needed to make bill payments, etc.

Guess what?

I watched them walk out in droves after working in 115 degree heat, doubled up on a job that one person regularly does. Translation: Even at $17.38 pay, these people Management is hiring can't/won't hack it.

HowTF are you going to get full time people, hired by the same inept Management, to sign up for that same work, doing all the work, for less???

Answer: You won't!!!

You cannot fix inept Management by further reducing the average workers compensation, it will not work!

Yes, job banks are dumb, and really should be axed. However, once you do that, Guess what?!

You still have inept Management being.....inept.

It all starts with Management. Fix that, and you fix Domestic auto.

Chuck*

*A Management employee.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: chucky2
Try more like upper 20's an hour for your skilled trades, and low to mid 20's an hour for your basic line worker. Keep in mind, they're not in an air conditioned office, they're expected to do their jobs perfectly around 500x a day (not saying that happens, but, that's the expectation, and, 99.9% of the time, occurs), and in 30-35 years, they'll be physically used up.

Now keep mind that these same people are paying taxes just like you and I, and they're spending just like you and I.

Also keep in mind that it's tough to get people, even at today's wages and benefits, to stay and report to the job, and do it perfectly, day over day, year over year.

You want to cut wages past the $14 hour they'll already be starting at next year? Reduce benefits?

Who exactly are you planning to get to show up, consistantly, to do these jobs, perfectly, for these even further reduced employee compensations?

Where are you making up your decreased tax base from? How are these people going to live on even less than < $30k a year they'll be getting now?

The UAW has already said the well has run dry....and it has. Time for Management to start delivering (like they haven't consistently for the past 20 years), else it's only going to get worse...

Chuck

you make it sound like they're working in torturous conditions... it's no office job, but they chose to be in it, they can leave if they don't like it and offer their "valuable skills" in another company or industry.

and who isn't expected to do a perfect job 100% of the time?
what employer says to their employee, "hey, i want you to strive to be mediocre - we're not looking for perfection here"?
why do you have such lowered standards for union auto guys?

if it's hard to get people to show up at work regularly, that says a lot about the quality of the people they're hiring, doesn't it?

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: chucky2
Try more like upper 20's an hour for your skilled trades, and low to mid 20's an hour for your basic line worker. Keep in mind, they're not in an air conditioned office, they're expected to do their jobs perfectly around 500x a day (not saying that happens, but, that's the expectation, and, 99.9% of the time, occurs), and in 30-35 years, they'll be physically used up.

Now keep mind that these same people are paying taxes just like you and I, and they're spending just like you and I.

Also keep in mind that it's tough to get people, even at today's wages and benefits, to stay and report to the job, and do it perfectly, day over day, year over year.

You want to cut wages past the $14 hour they'll already be starting at next year? Reduce benefits?

Who exactly are you planning to get to show up, consistantly, to do these jobs, perfectly, for these even further reduced employee compensations?

Where are you making up your decreased tax base from? How are these people going to live on even less than < $30k a year they'll be getting now?

The UAW has already said the well has run dry....and it has. Time for Management to start delivering (like they haven't consistently for the past 20 years), else it's only going to get worse...

Chuck

you make it sound like they're working in torturous conditions... it's no office job, but they chose to be in it, they can leave if they don't like it and offer their "valuable skills" in another company or industry.

and who isn't expected to do a perfect job 100% of the time?
what employer says to their employee, "hey, i want you to strive to be mediocre - we're not looking for perfection here"?
why do you have such lowered standards for union auto guys?

if it's hard to get people to show up at work regularly, that says a lot about the quality of the people they're hiring, doesn't it?

It says that low wages don't help attract the best candidates. When you pay shit, you're going to get shit.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: chucky2
Try more like upper 20's an hour for your skilled trades, and low to mid 20's an hour for your basic line worker. Keep in mind, they're not in an air conditioned office, they're expected to do their jobs perfectly around 500x a day (not saying that happens, but, that's the expectation, and, 99.9% of the time, occurs), and in 30-35 years, they'll be physically used up.

Now keep mind that these same people are paying taxes just like you and I, and they're spending just like you and I.

Also keep in mind that it's tough to get people, even at today's wages and benefits, to stay and report to the job, and do it perfectly, day over day, year over year.

You want to cut wages past the $14 hour they'll already be starting at next year? Reduce benefits?

Who exactly are you planning to get to show up, consistantly, to do these jobs, perfectly, for these even further reduced employee compensations?

Where are you making up your decreased tax base from? How are these people going to live on even less than < $30k a year they'll be getting now?

The UAW has already said the well has run dry....and it has. Time for Management to start delivering (like they haven't consistently for the past 20 years), else it's only going to get worse...

Chuck

you make it sound like they're working in torturous conditions... it's no office job, but they chose to be in it, they can leave if they don't like it and offer their "valuable skills" in another company or industry.

and who isn't expected to do a perfect job 100% of the time?
what employer says to their employee, "hey, i want you to strive to be mediocre - we're not looking for perfection here"?
why do you have such lowered standards for union auto guys?

if it's hard to get people to show up at work regularly, that says a lot about the quality of the people they're hiring, doesn't it?

It says that low wages don't help attract the best candidates. When you pay shit, you're going to get shit.

paid shit, or paid nothing. i know what i'll choose.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: chucky2
I totally agree on the job bank, I think that's rediculous. In any other industry, if you don't need people, you let them go.

However...

What you are failing to realize is that the UAW, already has gone to the bone in terms of wages and bennies.

Do you realize that $15.28 is $30k a year? They are already under that. I want you to think reality. I have literally been there during training, where as temporary part time workers (Mon./Fri. only) and 89 dayers (full time, only 89 days employment) I watched the potential labor pool get paid $17.something an hour in the air conditioned upstairs to watch safety videos. Paid for 4 days of this. Listened to them talk about how they needed this job, their kids needed shoes, they needed to make bill payments, etc.

Guess what?

I watched them walk out in droves after working in 115 degree heat, doubled up on a job that one person regularly does. Translation: Even at $17.38 pay, these people Management is hiring can't/won't hack it.

HowTF are you going to get full time people, hired by the same inept Management, to sign up for that same work, doing all the work, for less???

Answer: You won't!!!

You cannot fix inept Management by further reducing the average workers compensation, it will not work!

Yes, job banks are dumb, and really should be axed. However, once you do that, Guess what?!

You still have inept Management being.....inept.

It all starts with Management. Fix that, and you fix Domestic auto.

Chuck*

*A Management employee.

College graduates earned an average of $51,206 last year, while high-school graduates earned $27,915, according to Census Bureau figures. Those with no high-school diploma earned $18,734.

these UAW workers, do they have HS diplomas or college degrees?
if just a HS diploma, they're already doing better than the average hs graduate.

it's simple, if they want to earn more, improve yourself instead of complaining about not making enough for a living and asking for handouts.
in this country where education is "free" and readily available for all children, it's nobody's fault but your own if you can't make a good living in the US.

lazy workers with this sense of entitlement :disgust:

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: chucky2
Try more like upper 20's an hour for your skilled trades, and low to mid 20's an hour for your basic line worker. Keep in mind, they're not in an air conditioned office, they're expected to do their jobs perfectly around 500x a day (not saying that happens, but, that's the expectation, and, 99.9% of the time, occurs), and in 30-35 years, they'll be physically used up.

Now keep mind that these same people are paying taxes just like you and I, and they're spending just like you and I.

Also keep in mind that it's tough to get people, even at today's wages and benefits, to stay and report to the job, and do it perfectly, day over day, year over year.

You want to cut wages past the $14 hour they'll already be starting at next year? Reduce benefits?

Who exactly are you planning to get to show up, consistantly, to do these jobs, perfectly, for these even further reduced employee compensations?

Where are you making up your decreased tax base from? How are these people going to live on even less than < $30k a year they'll be getting now?

The UAW has already said the well has run dry....and it has. Time for Management to start delivering (like they haven't consistently for the past 20 years), else it's only going to get worse...

Chuck

you make it sound like they're working in torturous conditions... it's no office job, but they chose to be in it, they can leave if they don't like it and offer their "valuable skills" in another company or industry.

and who isn't expected to do a perfect job 100% of the time?
what employer says to their employee, "hey, i want you to strive to be mediocre - we're not looking for perfection here"?
why do you have such lowered standards for union auto guys?

if it's hard to get people to show up at work regularly, that says a lot about the quality of the people they're hiring, doesn't it?

It says that low wages don't help attract the best candidates. When you pay shit, you're going to get shit.

Added on: At $22/hr, before they went to $14/hr, they have problem with retention and quality (well, largely though to Management decisions on design and parts, but, still).

P.S. They are working in difficult conditions. It was 115-120 degrees the summer I did my line job. You aren't standing around j@cking off, you're working. Yes, it gets easier with repitition (which itself is hard on the mind and body), but, you're working none-the-less.

And Yes, they chose to be there and work in those conditions, doing that manual labor - for the money. The question remains: Just how are you giong to get quality people doing this work for less than they're making now, when even now, there's issues???

I work in IT. When someone makes a mistake, they edit a spreadsheet. But out a new release. Etc.

When an auto worker makes a mistake, someones $20k-$50k has a rattle or a shop visit, or leaves you stranded. It's not the same as the 'mediocrity' example you give. There's 20000 parts (or operations, I can't remember which) on a Taurus. That's 20000 chances for a F up. There does have to be d@mn near close to perfection 20000x for that car to roll off the line perfect. You want to pay less to get less quality people than you already have????

Good logic there, I can see where the auto jobs in this country are headed..... :disgust:

Chuck

 

[dartworth]

the only one complaining is you...then you call them lazy:roll:

now that doesn't seem very educated...

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: chucky2
I totally agree on the job bank, I think that's rediculous. In any other industry, if you don't need people, you let them go.

However...

What you are failing to realize is that the UAW, already has gone to the bone in terms of wages and bennies.

Do you realize that $15.28 is $30k a year? They are already under that. I want you to think reality. I have literally been there during training, where as temporary part time workers (Mon./Fri. only) and 89 dayers (full time, only 89 days employment) I watched the potential labor pool get paid $17.something an hour in the air conditioned upstairs to watch safety videos. Paid for 4 days of this. Listened to them talk about how they needed this job, their kids needed shoes, they needed to make bill payments, etc.

Guess what?

I watched them walk out in droves after working in 115 degree heat, doubled up on a job that one person regularly does. Translation: Even at $17.38 pay, these people Management is hiring can't/won't hack it.

HowTF are you going to get full time people, hired by the same inept Management, to sign up for that same work, doing all the work, for less???

Answer: You won't!!!

You cannot fix inept Management by further reducing the average workers compensation, it will not work!

Yes, job banks are dumb, and really should be axed. However, once you do that, Guess what?!

You still have inept Management being.....inept.

It all starts with Management. Fix that, and you fix Domestic auto.

Chuck*

*A Management employee.

College graduates earned an average of $51,206 last year, while high-school graduates earned $27,915, according to Census Bureau figures. Those with no high-school diploma earned $18,734.

these UAW workers, do they have HS diplomas or college degrees?
if just a HS diploma, they're already doing better than the average hs graduate.

it's simple, if they want to earn more, improve yourself instead of complaining about not making enough for a living and asking for handouts.
in this country where education is free and available for children, it's nobody's fault but your own if you can't make a good living in the US.

lazy workers with this sense of entitlement :disgust:

That's a nice Utopian view of the world college graduate, but, we're talking Reality here.

Reality is that those that don't have a means to get to college still need to work. Those that aren't college material still need to work. Those for whatever reason aren't going to go through college....still need to work.

Reality is that these good paying factory jobs, which don't require college intellect, but, do require someone that has a work ethic and that can show up for work, are exactly what the country needs so we have people that aren't sucking off the public teat and living in low class conditions.

Reality is that the $2000 the Big 3 say are added into cars because of the UAW are not why people have been straying to the non-Big 3 the past 20 years: Those reasons are almost entirely because of Management at the Big 3 (and also Management at the non-Big 3).

You sound like a kid who's a recent college grad and has this anti-Union, Management Is Infallible, I'll work for peanuts and eat sh1t because they want me to attitude. You sound precisely what the Upper Management in this country is salivating over: Someone who's willing to take 90 years of workers compensation benefits the Union's brought to the average worker, and throw them out the window.

Good going sonny, when you're working at McD's because your IT job got offshored to India, Manila, and China, so Upper Management could get another .10 stock price raise and have another feather in their cap on 'Workforce Rationalization' or some other BS buzzword, remember that you're 'paid sh1t, not nothing'.

Chuck

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
The UAW hate-bandwagon wasted no time in popping into this thread.

It's not a hate-bandwagon, it's an intelligence bandwagon. The UAW is a major contributing factor (in addition to the Big 3's own stupidity) as to why American automobile companies cannot compete globally.

Until it's fixed, they're fucked.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: ScottyB
UAW Haters = douche bag conservatives who hate uneducated workers making a living wage instead of corporate fat cats and fuckhead investors reaping all the profits.

Yeah, that's it... we HATE it when people make a living and contribute to society.

Fucking troll.

 

[da loser]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Toyota bonuses are probalby based upon results.

The UAW pay is not.

But it is very decpetive to throw the $70+/hr rate out as if that is what the working is getting paid at.

Also don?t forget some of the Asian plants have other things built in that GM workers do not get unless the union allows it or ask for it. One thing is Nissan has a board of workers that can override a punishment from management. I saw one story that said in 8 cases 4 were upheld and 4 were over turned. Asian plants don?t vote to be union as they already have the same pay, maybe even more, and options that most American plant workers get.

That $70+ amount includes people that are retired. When you compare current workers with current workers a lot of the American workers working for Asian companies do better than American union workers. That is why the UAW does not want to give up anymore. Its not them holding the company down, it?s bad management. Rick Wagoner needs to get tossed out with the rest of the upper MGT.

if that's the case they need to quit gm and go work for toyota