If Obama is involved with the Chicago mess....

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Yeah right, so when we criticized Bush and his Admin we were just being foolish and idiotic. Rumsfield did nothing wrong, Cheney did nothing wrong, Ashcroift did nothing wrong, Brown did nothing wrong, etc. They were all above reproach and we were idiots to criticize them and Bush whom they served:roll:

The vast majority of the time, yes, you were being foolish and idiotic. That's because the criticisms were so far over-the-top that they lost any validity in the process and became little more than giant circle jerks for the usual gaggle of vitriolic haters in here. Maybe, after the Obama hate machine REALLY cranks up in here, you'll recognize how that works and see you're really no better than they are. Some won't though because they only have the small-minded capacity to recognize the other side as fools, never themselves.

Funny it was always you who I thought was foolish and idiotic. I'm sure my opinion of you holds as much water with you are yours does with me.

Anyway the nightmare from the last 8 years is almost over, hopefully Obama will fare better but that's to be seen.

I'm looking forward to 4 years of having the Obama haters develop a passionate dislike for me, just like the Bush haters have. It's exciting, kinda like getting a new piece of ass.

 

[OrByte]

So when do the impeachment proceedings start?

 

[RKDaley]

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: ScottMac

I got to watch him "grow up" politically in Chicago. I've been in Chicago and 'burbs (Cook County) for over thirty years, so I got to experience Chicago-style politics "close up." I lived next door to the precinct, we weren't friends, but we talked occasionally and the stuff that rolled downhill to his level for execution was amazing.

I wasn't mocking him or anyone else on this board. I still find it hard to believe how the BHO supporters can assume this man to be able to swim through a cesspool for twenty years or so, and never saw anything, never did anything ... he just mysteriously rises through the ranks ... clean as the day he was born. Are BHO supporters *really* that friggin' naive and / or stupid and / or ignorant?

Again, at the least, he saw it, condoned it, supported it. He's a Machine Dude for Daley. He is no different than any other Machine Dude for Daley (including our pals Dave and Rahm .. they are and were some of cogs that made the machine work). He's as dirty as any of them, not by association, but because he was part of them (still is) and fully supported them all.

Since you seem to want play the inside information game, when in fact you have none, i'll play along. I grew up in Chicago also. As a matter of fact, I was born and raised in Hyde Park, less than a mile from where Obama's house is. I worked for years over at Hyde Park Computers over on 53rd & Harper. After college I worked at the University of Chicago (in Hyde Park). I moved back to Hyde Park after that and lived on 55th street until August of this year. I know that neigborhood as well as you or anyone else here. His neighborhood is my neighborhood.

I disagree with just about everything you wrote. Obama didn't mysteriously rise through the ranks, he worked his way up it. If you were suprised, it's because you weren't paying attention. Without a doubt Obama had to deal with shady characters on his way up, as all polticians do. What I saw is that he used them, they didn't use him. Obama never embraced their politics or their morals, and he wasn't embraced by them either. Politicians out of Hyde Park have always been outside of the system and simply "tolerated" by the machine. Maybe sitting in the Burbs, you painted everyone with a broad brush, but from inside I can certify that there are real differences between people and places in my city.

Machine dude for Daley? I'm going to call you an outright liar on that one. Anyone who pays attention should know that Obama's not a Daley guy. So you're either lying about how much you know and pay attention, or you know the truth and are misrepresenting it. Beyond all of your innuendo, and smear tactics, there lies a simple question:

What exactly did he do? What exactly are you accusing him of?

If you can't answer that simple question, other than he grew up in a place with bad people, you have no point. In all of that diatribe, the only thing that I saw you complain about specifically is that he endorsed the front-running Democrat. Well....welcome to the American two party system. If you're a democrat, you endorse whichever Dem your party nominates, if you're a republican you do the same thing. There's nothing that's "chicago politics" about something so basic. Frankly I have no reason to belive that the Republican counterparts that he didn't endorse were any better. Being from here, surely you know that a Republican Governor went to jail before Blago. If Obama's crime is that he didn't endorse some righteous third party and doom himself to political obscurity, then i'll take it.

:thumbsup:

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: eskimospy
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Bush was responsible for the actions of his subordinates. You ever remember that little desk reminder Truman had that said 'the buck stops here'? Obama is being held responsible for some nebulous corruption that is being asserted against a city and a state. You're so desperate to equate the two and find partisan hypocrisy that you jumped the gun... and it's totally absurd.

So Obama was not involved in this at all and had no knowledge whatsoever of the goings on? He has to be a direct boss to be held accountable? That's piss poor reasoning and very nearly apologism. If one of the Bush bashers in here even had the suspicion that Bush was involved in something similar the usual suspects would be asking that he be perp walked and strung up for it, long before any pronunciation of guilt was handed down.

Now you're seeing the other side do what you guys have done for 8 years. Suddenly you recognize how moronic it is, but only when that other side does it? Wow. What a surprise.

:roll:

Once again, there is holding a leader responsible for the actions of his subordinates, as any leader should be, and then there is your pathetic attempt to equate it with what ScottMac accuses Obama of. In your response to me above, you try to pull the guild by association bullshit and then declare Obama complicit. Even better, you then decide that to do other than guilt by association is 'piss poor reasoning'.

So yeah, keep using hypothetical situations and invalid comparisons all you want to prove this sort of unfair treatment of Bush in your mind, it takes nothing more than someone with a functioning brain to see the difference. I've long ago given up attempting to convince you of anything, as no matter how wrong you are you will back into the corner swiping at everyone like a rabid animal. It's enough to know that the other people reading this will see how you behave.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Are we comparing Barack surviving a sea of political corruption and George wallowing in it??

Actually, they're attempting to equate nothing more than Barack's coincidental proximity to a sea of political corruption to George Bush and his gang BEING one.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Yeah right, so when we criticized Bush and his Admin we were just being foolish and idiotic. Rumsfield did nothing wrong, Cheney did nothing wrong, Ashcroift did nothing wrong, Brown did nothing wrong, etc. They were all above reproach and we were idiots to criticize them and Bush whom they served:roll:

The vast majority of the time, yes, you were being foolish and idiotic. That's because the criticisms were so far over-the-top that they lost any validity in the process and became little more than giant circle jerks for the usual gaggle of vitriolic haters in here. Maybe, after the Obama hate machine REALLY cranks up in here, you'll recognize how that works and see you're really no better than they are. Some won't though because they only have the small-minded capacity to recognize the other side as fools, never themselves.

Funny it was always you who I thought was foolish and idiotic. I'm sure my opinion of you holds as much water with you are yours does with me.

Anyway the nightmare from the last 8 years is almost over, hopefully Obama will fare better but that's to be seen.

I'm looking forward to 4 years of having the Obama haters develop a passionate dislike for me, just like the Bush haters have. It's exciting, kinda like getting a new piece of ass.

Well at least somebody here would give you the time of day if only to tell you to pound salt.

 

[ScottMac]

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: L00PY
You made the allegation but offered no proof. All I asked was which of the cabinet members Obama's surrounding himself with are from Chicago, Cook County, or Illinois?

What's the corruption link to the governor of AZ? Let me guess, you've got ironclad evidence that she's a rabid Suns fan and bet heavily on them against the Bulls? You've seen her marker of millions owed to the Chicago mob and that's how you know she's going to ruin the DHS? I'm guessing you've filed it right next to that copy of Obama's Indonesian birth certificate?

The link is that they were all early Obama supporters, except folks like HRC that were muzzled or bought off. I was not implying that he is hiring friends & family, that'll come later.

And, hey! even a stopped clock is right twice a day ... so drink your Kool Aid and relax and enjoy the ride.

And I've never challenged his citizenship, never ... not once. If you want to accuse me personally of something, try to get the story right. I only accuse him of being a typical Chicago, Cook County, Illinois politician, in the likeness of Blago, and like all the rest of the worthless piece of crap Machine Pols from this neighborhood.

So, can you answer my earlier question? From what great well of wisdom are you drawing information that makes you such a staunch supporter of this unproven product of the Chicago Machine, BHO?

Give me a break. What "great well of wisdom" are YOU drawing all your ideas about Obama from? You mock people for thinking he's a good guy, then turn around and assume he's Satan incarnate...how is that any more intelligent than what you accuse the other side of doing?

I got to watch him "grow up" politically in Chicago. I've been in Chicago and 'burbs (Cook County) for over thirty years, so I got to experience Chicago-style politics "close up." I lived next door to the precinct, we weren't friends, but we talked occasionally and the stuff that rolled downhill to his level for execution was amazing.

I wasn't mocking him or anyone else on this board. I still find it hard to believe how the BHO supporters can assume this man to be able to swim through a cesspool for twenty years or so, and never saw anything, never did anything ... he just mysteriously rises through the ranks ... clean as the day he was born. Are BHO supporters *really* that friggin' naive and / or stupid and / or ignorant?

Again, at the least, he saw it, condoned it, supported it. He's a Machine Dude for Daley. He is no different than any other Machine Dude for Daley (including our pals Dave and Rahm .. they are and were some of cogs that made the machine work). He's as dirty as any of them, not by association, but because he was part of them (still is) and fully supported them all.

Since you seem to want play the inside information game, when in fact you have none, i'll play along. I grew up in Chicago also. As a matter of fact, I was born and raised in Hyde Park, less than a mile from where Obama's house is. I worked for years over at Hyde Park Computers over on 53rd & Harper. After college I worked at the University of Chicago (in Hyde Park). I moved back to Hyde Park after that and lived on 55th street until August of this year. I know that neigborhood as well as you or anyone else here. His neighborhood is my neighborhood.

I disagree with just about everything you wrote. Obama didn't mysteriously rise through the ranks, he worked his way up it. If you were suprised, it's because you weren't paying attention. Without a doubt Obama had to deal with shady characters on his way up, as all polticians do. What I saw is that he used them, they didn't use him. Obama never embraced their politics or their morals, and he wasn't embraced by them either. Politicians out of Hyde Park have always been outside of the system and simply "tolerated" by the machine. Maybe sitting in the Burbs, you painted everyone with a broad brush, but from inside I can certify that there are real differences between people and places in my city.

Machine dude for Daley? I'm going to call you an outright liar on that one. Anyone who pays attention should know that Obama's not a Daley guy. So you're either lying about how much you know and pay attention, or you know the truth and are misrepresenting it. Beyond all of your innuendo, and smear tactics, there lies a simple question:

What exactly did he do? What exactly are you accusing him of?

If you can't answer that simple question, other than he grew up in a place with bad people, you have no point. In all of that diatribe, the only thing that I saw you complain about specifically is that he endorsed the front-running Democrat. Well....welcome to the American two party system. If you're a democrat, you endorse whichever Dem your party nominates, if you're a republican you do the same thing. There's nothing that's "chicago politics" about something so basic. Frankly I have no reason to belive that the Republican counterparts that he didn't endorse were any better. Being from here, surely you know that a Republican Governor went to jail before Blago. If Obama's crime is that he didn't endorse some righteous third party and doom himself to political obscurity, then i'll take it.

Well, swell! His neighborhood is your neighborhood. Great, what's he done of merit? You're right there, you'd know. That was the root of the question, how did someone grow up politically in Chicago and not suck up and do the Machine's bidding?

What did he do? What am I accusing him of ... well, I thought I was clear the first few times, but again, in summary:

He's a gutless piece of Machine crap, and has never stood against Da Machine in any significant way. This is not consistent with his PR as The Great Reformer.

He endorsed Todd (Toad, Toddler, Erkel) Stroeger, absolutely nothing but a Machine puppet. He could easily have endorsed Claypool, a Democrat, a known reformer, to the County Board but didn't, because if he didn't kiss up to the Machine, he gets nothing. He's also endorsed an Alderperson with known gang ties (at the time he endorsed her), only because she was the Machine candidate. There are some other similar examples.

He's got Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod for bookends, both are long-time ramrods in the Daley machine. Not the choice of a Daley outsider. They may not be golfing buddies, but Daley / Obama are tied at the political hip. Recent history is scattered with people that don't necessarily like each other, but find a little beneficial mutual back-scratching in their interest.

Since you like to quote the Trib, do some searches on Kass' columns and read up on the multitude of ties between all the players, some with the machine, some with what he calls the "Combine" (includes some alleged mob ties).

I never claimed "insider" status, I claimed "constituent" status and as a direct observer have not seen any significant action other then the effort he makes to vote "present" on controversial issues (like the Born Alive Act). He is truly a gutless politician of the worst sort (in my opinion as a constituent).

I keep asking, and so far noone is answering, what, other than a good deal of personal charisma, would make people overlook the fact that he more of the cowpatty than the petunia growing out of it (as represented by a majority of the press).

As an observation, I don't think it's a coincidence that most of folks here with that "Obama loves me" gleam in their eye have no idea of the scope and depth of how totally corrupt Chicago, Cook County, Illinois politics really are. Blago is the rule, not the exception; I suggest that BHO is right there with him and his ilk.

As for Lyin' Ryan ... tell you what - you get the rope, I'll pick a tree and we can have him swingin' in no time. Ryan's been convicted, Blago hasn't even been indicted yet ... and once the local Dems figure out that a "Special Election" might be lost to Kirk (R), they suddenly started to think that Quinn (generally regarded as more of a reformer than Machine dude) might have enough sense to pick one instead. Gee, nothing like service to the Voters of Chicago, Cook County, Illinois ...

I actually have nothing but praise for Quinn (Lt. Gov). I like the man and I voted for him; I believe he's a good guy. I do disagree with many of his positions, but all-in-all, I think he's doing what he feels is best for the citizens of Illinois. His support for the troops has been nothing short of stellar.

Now, I've answered your simple questions. Answer mine.

Once Blago & Rezko start singing for real, things are going to get interesting. BHO is nothing more than just another empty Chicago (cook County, Illinois) politician waiting for his instructions from Da Boss.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ScottMac

*snip*

Got it, guilt by association. Tell me how that works out for you.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ScottMac

*snip*

Got it, guilt by association. Tell me how that works out for you.

Yep. That game is getting old rather quickly. Nice post yowolabi.

 

[ScottMac]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ScottMac

*snip*

Got it, guilt by association. Tell me how that works out for you.

It's more than association when you take an active part. Nice try though.

You need a new macro there .... if all you have is to try to dismiss with a 'Guilt by association' then you've made the point that there's nothing to recommend this guy, you can't defend him.

And, aren't you the primary defender of "The airplane can't take off?" ... loads of credibility there ...

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ScottMac

*snip*

Got it, guilt by association. Tell me how that works out for you.

It's more than association when you take an active part. Nice try though.

You need a new macro there .... if all you have is to try to dismiss with a 'Guilt by association' then you've made the point that there's nothing to recommend this guy, you can't defend him.

And, aren't you the primary defender of "The airplane can't take off?" ... loads of credibility there ...

Your circular reasoning isn't much on credibility either.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Got it, guilt by association. Tell me how that works out for you.

It's more than association when you take an active part. Nice try though.

You need a new macro there .... if all you have is to try to dismiss with a 'Guilt by association' then you've made the point that there's nothing to recommend this guy, you can't defend him.

And, aren't you the primary defender of "The airplane can't take off?" ... loads of credibility there ...

So you say that Obama took an active part. What corrupt activities did he engage in? If he just endorsed someone who was corrupt, you're back to guilt by association. People keep asking you what he did, and you can't name a single blessed thing. That's why your argument is crap.

Oh, and what are you talking about with "the airplane can't take off?" I honestly have no idea.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ScottMac

*snip*

Got it, guilt by association. Tell me how that works out for you.

It's more than association when you take an active part. Nice try though.

You need a new macro there .... if all you have is to try to dismiss with a 'Guilt by association' then you've made the point that there's nothing to recommend this guy, you can't defend him.

And, aren't you the primary defender of "The airplane can't take off?" ... loads of credibility there ...

The reason "guilt by association" keeps coming up is that you guys seem to be unable to come up with a better way to slime Obama. Your attack, to put it bluntly, is terrible...why should anyone bother to come up with a PHD thesis refuting it when it's so easily dismissed by pointing out the obvious flaw in your reasoning? If we need a macro to defend Obama, it's only because you guys appear to be using a macro to attack him...fair is fair and all that. Your post that eskimospy responded to might have had more words than his response, but the actual content could be summarized in just as short a sentence.

You want a better response? Try coming up with some better talking points first.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: L00PY
You made the allegation but offered no proof. All I asked was which of the cabinet members Obama's surrounding himself with are from Chicago, Cook County, or Illinois?

What's the corruption link to the governor of AZ? Let me guess, you've got ironclad evidence that she's a rabid Suns fan and bet heavily on them against the Bulls? You've seen her marker of millions owed to the Chicago mob and that's how you know she's going to ruin the DHS? I'm guessing you've filed it right next to that copy of Obama's Indonesian birth certificate?

The link is that they were all early Obama supporters, except folks like HRC that were muzzled or bought off. I was not implying that he is hiring friends & family, that'll come later.

And, hey! even a stopped clock is right twice a day ... so drink your Kool Aid and relax and enjoy the ride.

And I've never challenged his citizenship, never ... not once. If you want to accuse me personally of something, try to get the story right. I only accuse him of being a typical Chicago, Cook County, Illinois politician, in the likeness of Blago, and like all the rest of the worthless piece of crap Machine Pols from this neighborhood.

So, can you answer my earlier question? From what great well of wisdom are you drawing information that makes you such a staunch supporter of this unproven product of the Chicago Machine, BHO?

Give me a break. What "great well of wisdom" are YOU drawing all your ideas about Obama from? You mock people for thinking he's a good guy, then turn around and assume he's Satan incarnate...how is that any more intelligent than what you accuse the other side of doing?

I got to watch him "grow up" politically in Chicago. I've been in Chicago and 'burbs (Cook County) for over thirty years, so I got to experience Chicago-style politics "close up." I lived next door to the precinct, we weren't friends, but we talked occasionally and the stuff that rolled downhill to his level for execution was amazing.

I wasn't mocking him or anyone else on this board. I still find it hard to believe how the BHO supporters can assume this man to be able to swim through a cesspool for twenty years or so, and never saw anything, never did anything ... he just mysteriously rises through the ranks ... clean as the day he was born. Are BHO supporters *really* that friggin' naive and / or stupid and / or ignorant?

Again, at the least, he saw it, condoned it, supported it. He's a Machine Dude for Daley. He is no different than any other Machine Dude for Daley (including our pals Dave and Rahm .. they are and were some of cogs that made the machine work). He's as dirty as any of them, not by association, but because he was part of them (still is) and fully supported them all.

Since you seem to want play the inside information game, when in fact you have none, i'll play along. I grew up in Chicago also. As a matter of fact, I was born and raised in Hyde Park, less than a mile from where Obama's house is. I worked for years over at Hyde Park Computers over on 53rd & Harper. After college I worked at the University of Chicago (in Hyde Park). I moved back to Hyde Park after that and lived on 55th street until August of this year. I know that neigborhood as well as you or anyone else here. His neighborhood is my neighborhood.

I disagree with just about everything you wrote. Obama didn't mysteriously rise through the ranks, he worked his way up it. If you were suprised, it's because you weren't paying attention. Without a doubt Obama had to deal with shady characters on his way up, as all polticians do. What I saw is that he used them, they didn't use him. Obama never embraced their politics or their morals, and he wasn't embraced by them either. Politicians out of Hyde Park have always been outside of the system and simply "tolerated" by the machine. Maybe sitting in the Burbs, you painted everyone with a broad brush, but from inside I can certify that there are real differences between people and places in my city.

Machine dude for Daley? I'm going to call you an outright liar on that one. Anyone who pays attention should know that Obama's not a Daley guy. So you're either lying about how much you know and pay attention, or you know the truth and are misrepresenting it. Beyond all of your innuendo, and smear tactics, there lies a simple question:

What exactly did he do? What exactly are you accusing him of?

If you can't answer that simple question, other than he grew up in a place with bad people, you have no point. In all of that diatribe, the only thing that I saw you complain about specifically is that he endorsed the front-running Democrat. Well....welcome to the American two party system. If you're a democrat, you endorse whichever Dem your party nominates, if you're a republican you do the same thing. There's nothing that's "chicago politics" about something so basic. Frankly I have no reason to belive that the Republican counterparts that he didn't endorse were any better. Being from here, surely you know that a Republican Governor went to jail before Blago. If Obama's crime is that he didn't endorse some righteous third party and doom himself to political obscurity, then i'll take it.

Well, swell! His neighborhood is your neighborhood. Great, what's he done of merit? You're right there, you'd know. That was the root of the question, how did someone grow up politically in Chicago and not suck up and do the Machine's bidding?

What did he do? What am I accusing him of ... well, I thought I was clear the first few times, but again, in summary:

He's a gutless piece of Machine crap, and has never stood against Da Machine in any significant way. This is not consistent with his PR as The Great Reformer.

He endorsed Todd (Toad, Toddler, Erkel) Stroeger, absolutely nothing but a Machine puppet. He could easily have endorsed Claypool, a Democrat, a known reformer, to the County Board but didn't, because if he didn't kiss up to the Machine, he gets nothing. He's also endorsed an Alderperson with known gang ties (at the time he endorsed her), only because she was the Machine candidate. There are some other similar examples.

He's got Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod for bookends, both are long-time ramrods in the Daley machine. Not the choice of a Daley outsider. They may not be golfing buddies, but Daley / Obama are tied at the political hip. Recent history is scattered with people that don't necessarily like each other, but find a little beneficial mutual back-scratching in their interest.

Since you like to quote the Trib, do some searches on Kass' columns and read up on the multitude of ties between all the players, some with the machine, some with what he calls the "Combine" (includes some alleged mob ties).

I never claimed "insider" status, I claimed "constituent" status and as a direct observer have not seen any significant action other then the effort he makes to vote "present" on controversial issues (like the Born Alive Act). He is truly a gutless politician of the worst sort (in my opinion as a constituent).

I keep asking, and so far noone is answering, what, other than a good deal of personal charisma, would make people overlook the fact that he more of the cowpatty than the petunia growing out of it (as represented by a majority of the press).

As an observation, I don't think it's a coincidence that most of folks here with that "Obama loves me" gleam in their eye have no idea of the scope and depth of how totally corrupt Chicago, Cook County, Illinois politics really are. Blago is the rule, not the exception; I suggest that BHO is right there with him and his ilk.

As for Lyin' Ryan ... tell you what - you get the rope, I'll pick a tree and we can have him swingin' in no time. Ryan's been convicted, Blago hasn't even been indicted yet ... and once the local Dems figure out that a "Special Election" might be lost to Kirk (R), they suddenly started to think that Quinn (generally regarded as more of a reformer than Machine dude) might have enough sense to pick one instead. Gee, nothing like service to the Voters of Chicago, Cook County, Illinois ...

I actually have nothing but praise for Quinn (Lt. Gov). I like the man and I voted for him; I believe he's a good guy. I do disagree with many of his positions, but all-in-all, I think he's doing what he feels is best for the citizens of Illinois. His support for the troops has been nothing short of stellar.

Now, I've answered your simple questions. Answer mine.

Once Blago & Rezko start singing for real, things are going to get interesting. BHO is nothing more than just another empty Chicago (cook County, Illinois) politician waiting for his instructions from Da Boss.

Wow.. As Obama emerges from swimming through the Chicago sewage system to become President, some members on this forum have no doubt he's is as clean as the day he was born. Maybe he doesn't "swim" in it? Rather, he floats above it all. Like walking on "water" -- or in this case, sheit. The Messiah indeed. Next thing he needs to do is break bread and turn water into wine to help all the recently laid off American workers..




Edited to remove reference to moderators as person in question was posting as a member.


Anandtech Senior Moderator
Red Dawn

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: L00PY
You made the allegation but offered no proof. All I asked was which of the cabinet members Obama's surrounding himself with are from Chicago, Cook County, or Illinois?

What's the corruption link to the governor of AZ? Let me guess, you've got ironclad evidence that she's a rabid Suns fan and bet heavily on them against the Bulls? You've seen her marker of millions owed to the Chicago mob and that's how you know she's going to ruin the DHS? I'm guessing you've filed it right next to that copy of Obama's Indonesian birth certificate?

The link is that they were all early Obama supporters, except folks like HRC that were muzzled or bought off. I was not implying that he is hiring friends & family, that'll come later.

And, hey! even a stopped clock is right twice a day ... so drink your Kool Aid and relax and enjoy the ride.

And I've never challenged his citizenship, never ... not once. If you want to accuse me personally of something, try to get the story right. I only accuse him of being a typical Chicago, Cook County, Illinois politician, in the likeness of Blago, and like all the rest of the worthless piece of crap Machine Pols from this neighborhood.

So, can you answer my earlier question? From what great well of wisdom are you drawing information that makes you such a staunch supporter of this unproven product of the Chicago Machine, BHO?

Give me a break. What "great well of wisdom" are YOU drawing all your ideas about Obama from? You mock people for thinking he's a good guy, then turn around and assume he's Satan incarnate...how is that any more intelligent than what you accuse the other side of doing?

I got to watch him "grow up" politically in Chicago. I've been in Chicago and 'burbs (Cook County) for over thirty years, so I got to experience Chicago-style politics "close up." I lived next door to the precinct, we weren't friends, but we talked occasionally and the stuff that rolled downhill to his level for execution was amazing.

I wasn't mocking him or anyone else on this board. I still find it hard to believe how the BHO supporters can assume this man to be able to swim through a cesspool for twenty years or so, and never saw anything, never did anything ... he just mysteriously rises through the ranks ... clean as the day he was born. Are BHO supporters *really* that friggin' naive and / or stupid and / or ignorant?

Again, at the least, he saw it, condoned it, supported it. He's a Machine Dude for Daley. He is no different than any other Machine Dude for Daley (including our pals Dave and Rahm .. they are and were some of cogs that made the machine work). He's as dirty as any of them, not by association, but because he was part of them (still is) and fully supported them all.

Since you seem to want play the inside information game, when in fact you have none, i'll play along. I grew up in Chicago also. As a matter of fact, I was born and raised in Hyde Park, less than a mile from where Obama's house is. I worked for years over at Hyde Park Computers over on 53rd & Harper. After college I worked at the University of Chicago (in Hyde Park). I moved back to Hyde Park after that and lived on 55th street until August of this year. I know that neigborhood as well as you or anyone else here. His neighborhood is my neighborhood.

I disagree with just about everything you wrote. Obama didn't mysteriously rise through the ranks, he worked his way up it. If you were suprised, it's because you weren't paying attention. Without a doubt Obama had to deal with shady characters on his way up, as all polticians do. What I saw is that he used them, they didn't use him. Obama never embraced their politics or their morals, and he wasn't embraced by them either. Politicians out of Hyde Park have always been outside of the system and simply "tolerated" by the machine. Maybe sitting in the Burbs, you painted everyone with a broad brush, but from inside I can certify that there are real differences between people and places in my city.

Machine dude for Daley? I'm going to call you an outright liar on that one. Anyone who pays attention should know that Obama's not a Daley guy. So you're either lying about how much you know and pay attention, or you know the truth and are misrepresenting it. Beyond all of your innuendo, and smear tactics, there lies a simple question:

What exactly did he do? What exactly are you accusing him of?

If you can't answer that simple question, other than he grew up in a place with bad people, you have no point. In all of that diatribe, the only thing that I saw you complain about specifically is that he endorsed the front-running Democrat. Well....welcome to the American two party system. If you're a democrat, you endorse whichever Dem your party nominates, if you're a republican you do the same thing. There's nothing that's "chicago politics" about something so basic. Frankly I have no reason to belive that the Republican counterparts that he didn't endorse were any better. Being from here, surely you know that a Republican Governor went to jail before Blago. If Obama's crime is that he didn't endorse some righteous third party and doom himself to political obscurity, then i'll take it.

Well, swell! His neighborhood is your neighborhood. Great, what's he done of merit? You're right there, you'd know. That was the root of the question, how did someone grow up politically in Chicago and not suck up and do the Machine's bidding?

What did he do? What am I accusing him of ... well, I thought I was clear the first few times, but again, in summary:

He's a gutless piece of Machine crap, and has never stood against Da Machine in any significant way. This is not consistent with his PR as The Great Reformer.

He endorsed Todd (Toad, Toddler, Erkel) Stroeger, absolutely nothing but a Machine puppet. He could easily have endorsed Claypool, a Democrat, a known reformer, to the County Board but didn't, because if he didn't kiss up to the Machine, he gets nothing. He's also endorsed an Alderperson with known gang ties (at the time he endorsed her), only because she was the Machine candidate. There are some other similar examples.

He's got Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod for bookends, both are long-time ramrods in the Daley machine. Not the choice of a Daley outsider. They may not be golfing buddies, but Daley / Obama are tied at the political hip. Recent history is scattered with people that don't necessarily like each other, but find a little beneficial mutual back-scratching in their interest.

Since you like to quote the Trib, do some searches on Kass' columns and read up on the multitude of ties between all the players, some with the machine, some with what he calls the "Combine" (includes some alleged mob ties).

I never claimed "insider" status, I claimed "constituent" status and as a direct observer have not seen any significant action other then the effort he makes to vote "present" on controversial issues (like the Born Alive Act). He is truly a gutless politician of the worst sort (in my opinion as a constituent).

I keep asking, and so far noone is answering, what, other than a good deal of personal charisma, would make people overlook the fact that he more of the cowpatty than the petunia growing out of it (as represented by a majority of the press).

As an observation, I don't think it's a coincidence that most of folks here with that "Obama loves me" gleam in their eye have no idea of the scope and depth of how totally corrupt Chicago, Cook County, Illinois politics really are. Blago is the rule, not the exception; I suggest that BHO is right there with him and his ilk.

As for Lyin' Ryan ... tell you what - you get the rope, I'll pick a tree and we can have him swingin' in no time. Ryan's been convicted, Blago hasn't even been indicted yet ... and once the local Dems figure out that a "Special Election" might be lost to Kirk (R), they suddenly started to think that Quinn (generally regarded as more of a reformer than Machine dude) might have enough sense to pick one instead. Gee, nothing like service to the Voters of Chicago, Cook County, Illinois ...

I actually have nothing but praise for Quinn (Lt. Gov). I like the man and I voted for him; I believe he's a good guy. I do disagree with many of his positions, but all-in-all, I think he's doing what he feels is best for the citizens of Illinois. His support for the troops has been nothing short of stellar.

Now, I've answered your simple questions. Answer mine.

Once Blago & Rezko start singing for real, things are going to get interesting. BHO is nothing more than just another empty Chicago (cook County, Illinois) politician waiting for his instructions from Da Boss.

Wow.. As Obama emerges from swimming through the Chicago sewage system to become President, some moderators on this forum have no doubt he's is as clean as the day he was born. Maybe he doesn't "swim" in it? Rather, he floats above it all. Like walking on "water" -- or in this case, sheit. The Messiah indeed. Next thing he needs to do is break bread and turn water into wine to help all the recently laid off American workers..

Should be easy to find actual Wrongs committed by Obama then, shouldn't it?

 

[L00PY]

Originally posted by: ScottMac
Well, swell! His neighborhood is your neighborhood. Great, what's he done of merit? You're right there, you'd know. That was the root of the question, how did someone grow up politically in Chicago and not suck up and do the Machine's bidding?

He apparently did enough to win the presidential election. And by a large margin. How does someone grow up and not be sucked in? Apparently by doing what Obama did.

He's a gutless piece of Machine crap, and has never stood against Da Machine in any significant way. This is not consistent with his PR as The Great Reformer.

He endorsed Todd (Toad, Toddler, Erkel) Stroeger, absolutely nothing but a Machine puppet.

Neither of which are crimes or even unethical. Believe it or not, democrats tend to endorse democrats. Hardly indicative of corruption. It wouldn't surprise me if Bush endorsed a Chicago candidate at some point. Would that automatically make him a piece of the Machine too?

He's got Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod for bookends, both are long-time ramrods in the Daley machine. Not the choice of a Daley outsider. They may not be golfing buddies, but Daley / Obama are tied at the political hip. Recent history is scattered with people that don't necessarily like each other, but find a little beneficial mutual back-scratching in their interest.

Again, using staff that have been with you from the beginning is neither a crime nor unethical. You also fail to point out the connection between this Chicago corruption and Gates? Or the Daley machine and Shinseki or Jones? Aside for being democrats, how do those senators and governors tie in?

I never claimed "insider" status, I claimed "constituent" status and as a direct observer have not seen any significant action other then the effort he makes to vote "present" on controversial issues (like the Born Alive Act). He is truly a gutless politician of the worst sort (in my opinion as a constituent).

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but your having an negative opinion as a constituent of Obama is neither a crime on his part nor indicative of corruption. You've failed to list any crimes nor any proof of corruption on Obama's part. Yet you want us to believe you based on your direct observations of nothing criminal nor unethical.

Why did nationwide vetting by the press, the Democratic party, the Republican party, and the internet masses fail to turn up evidence of Obama being a yet another corrupt criminal cog in the Chicago political machine? Had these general charges come up before he was a known national figure, they might be worthy of some scrutiny. As is, they're just laughable as the rants of the tinfoil hat brigade or sore losers.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: L00PY
*snip*

The problem is with the poster himself. He's not trying to figure out if Obama is corrupt/dirty/whatever. He already knows. Nothing you can say to him will change his mind, because Obama's already guilty.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

if you believe the Obama report, it doesn't appear there was any wrongdoing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12...cs/24obama.html?ref=us

Obama Report Outlines Talks on Senate Seat

By JEFF ZELENY
Published: December 23, 2008

HONOLULU ? In the days after Barack Obama?s election as president, Rahm Emanuel, a top adviser, suggested to Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich of Illinois that Mr. Obama?s Senate seat should be filled by Valerie Jarrett, a confidante of Mr. Obama.

In that same week, as word of her potential interest in the Senate seat spread throughout the Chicago political world, Ms. Jarrett spoke with a labor union official in Illinois who said he had spoken to the governor about the possibility of appointing her to the seat. During that conversation, the union leader mentioned that Mr. Blagojevich had his eye on a possible cabinet position in the Obama administration.

The contact was among the findings of an internal report released Tuesday, compiled by lawyers for the president-elect. The report concluded that Mr. Emanuel had as many as six conversations with the governor?s office about the Senate vacancy, but that Mr. Obama had none, and that neither Mr. Emanuel, Ms. Jarrett, nor any other Obama associates had any talks about a deal in which Mr. Blagojevich would benefit from appointing someone to the Senate seat.

Mr. Blagojevich was charged by federal prosecutors in Chicago this month on a variety of corruption counts, including an alleged effort to trade the appointment to the Senate seat for a job or money. The report also disclosed that Mr. Obama, Mr. Emanuel and Ms. Jarrett were questioned by federal prosecutors last week in the corruption inquiry of the governor. Mr. Obama?s two-hour interview took place in his Chicago office, aides said, and he was not under oath or considered more than a witness in the case.

Mr. Obama did not speak about the matter on Tuesday. He continued his vacation in Hawaii, where he attended a memorial service for his grandmother, who died just before the election.

Ms. Jarrett, a longtime Chicago friend of the Obama family who will serve as a senior adviser in the White House, had no communication with Mr. Blagojevich or his aides, the report said. But it said that three days after the election, she spoke with Tom Balanoff, president of the Illinois chapter of the Service Employees International Union, about the Senate seat and the governor?s ambitions to serve in the Obama administration as secretary of health and human services.

This conversation, outlined for the first time, could be of interest in the criminal case against Mr. Blagojevich, who was recorded on the same day as the Jarrett-Balanoff meeting in wiretapped phone calls expressing an interest in a job with an arm of the union in exchange for a possible Senate appointment. According to an affidavit, Mr. Blagojevich was also captured on tape that day telling an unnamed adviser that he was willing to ?trade? the appointment for the cabinet post.

?Ms. Jarrett did not understand the conversation to suggest that the governor wanted the cabinet seat as a quid pro quo for selecting any specific candidate to be the president-elect?s replacement,? Gregory B. Craig, who has been designated by Mr. Obama as his White House counsel, wrote in the report. ?At no time did Balanoff say anything to her about offering Blagojevich a union position.?

The Obama transition team delayed the report?s release at the request of Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the United States attorney for the Northern District of Illinois, who wanted to interview prospective witnesses before it was made public. The delay prolonged questions on whether any Obama aides acted improperly in dealing with the governor?s office.

In the conversations with Mr. Blagojevich immediately after the election, Mr. Emanuel recommended Ms. Jarrett for the Senate seat, the report said, a position that later turned out to be contrary to Mr. Obama?s wishes.

?In those early conversations with the governor, Mr. Emanuel recommended Valerie Jarrett because he knew she was interested in the seat,? the report said. ?He did so before learning, in further conversations with the president-elect, that the president-elect had ruled out communicating a preference for any one candidate.?

Mr. Emanuel was not available to answer a reporter?s questions on Tuesday, aides said, because he had left for a planned holiday trip to Africa with his family.

The report suggested that Mr. Obama had been more involved in thinking about his Senate successor than his public statements about the topic had indicated.

The report said that after Ms. Jarrett took herself out of the running for the Senate seat, citing Mr. Obama?s preference that she work for him in the White House, Mr. Obama authorized Mr. Emanuel to pass on the names of four people he considered highly qualified to take over his seat: Daniel W. Hynes, the state comptroller; Tammy Duckworth, the state veterans affairs director; and Representatives Jan Schakowsky and Jesse L. Jackson Jr., Chicago Democrats.

Mr. Obama later offered two other names, it said: Attorney General Lisa Madigan of Illinois and the Chicago Urban League president, Cheryle R. Jackson.

Those names were passed along by Mr. Emanuel in four calls to John Harris, the governor?s chief of staff, from early November through Dec. 8, one day before Mr. Blagojevich and Mr. Harris were arrested.

Mr. Emanuel, an Illinois congressman, was one of the few members of Mr. Obama?s inner circle who had a working relationship and talked occasionally with Mr. Blagojevich. But his contact with the governor was ?totally appropriate,? Mr. Craig told reporters on Tuesday afternoon.

The only other name mentioned in the report was Dr. Eric Whitaker, a close friend of Mr. Obama, who was approached by a Blagojevich aide immediately after the election. The aide, the report said, ?wanted to know who, if anyone, had the authority to speak for the president-elect.?

?The president-elect told Dr. Whitaker that no one was authorized to speak for him on the matter,? the report said. ?The president-elect said that he had no interest in dictating the result of the selection process, and he would not do so, either directly or indirectly.?

 

[waggy]

while i don't beleive that Obama has anything to do with it (so far nothing to prove he has. but to be honest it wouldnt suprise me if he does). A investigation BY obama's people about it is not the most trusthworthy one to look at.

but i do think in th eend it will be a lot of talk but nothing come out of it.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: waggy

A investigation BY obama's people about it is not the most trusthworthy one to look at.

but i do think in th eend it will be a lot of talk but nothing come out of it.

That's just what Obama said he would do, and he did it. Fitzpatrick already has an independent investigation in progress, including taped conversations. I doubt Obama would put anything in his report that the tapes could prove false.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ScottMac

*snip*

Got it, guilt by association. Tell me how that works out for you.

It worked for Bush

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ScottMac

*snip*

Got it, guilt by association. Tell me how that works out for you.

It worked for Bush

No. Bush has plenty of his own guilt. Most of his former supporters probably feel a lot of their own, and the few who still support him SHOULD be feeling lots of guilt.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: StarsFan4Life
My gut says Obama was involved and it will all come out in time. If this does happen and charges are brought up against him, what happens next?

If there was an obvious lie that was the ONE thing that meant a THREAT to the US and a President used it to conduct a war that would result in an end state that was far worse than the starting state, both as a threat to the US and as an unsatable country.

What would be be the punishment for such obvious treason?

Nothing?

 

[ScottMac]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: L00PY
*snip*

The problem is with the poster himself. He's not trying to figure out if Obama is corrupt/dirty/whatever. He already knows. Nothing you can say to him will change his mind, because Obama's already guilty.

Glad to see that you finally got the point. He's just another piece of crap Chicago Machine politician.

 

[ScottMac]

Originally posted by: L00PY

Originally posted by: ScottMac
Well, swell! His neighborhood is your neighborhood. Great, what's he done of merit? You're right there, you'd know. That was the root of the question, how did someone grow up politically in Chicago and not suck up and do the Machine's bidding?

He apparently did enough to win the presidential election. And by a large margin. How does someone grow up and not be sucked in? Apparently by doing what Obama did.

OK, so you also apparently cannot enumerate any significant actions of merit ... just "Well, he got elected" - he got elected by virtue of an extremely favorable press and a majority of Kool Aid drinkers, many of which, apparently including you, that cannot come up with anything significant that he's ever accomplished.

He's a gutless piece of Machine crap, and has never stood against Da Machine in any significant way. This is not consistent with his PR as The Great Reformer.

He endorsed Todd (Toad, Toddler, Erkel) Stroeger, absolutely nothing but a Machine puppet.

Neither of which are crimes or even unethical. Believe it or not, democrats tend to endorse democrats. Hardly indicative of corruption. It wouldn't surprise me if Bush endorsed a Chicago candidate at some point. Would that automatically make him a piece of the Machine too?

The alternate, Forrest Claypool is also a Democrat. Instead of picking a reformer (Democrat, Claypool), he endorsed an Idiot, Democrat, Stroeger ... it is not the choice of a "reformer" BHO is a Machine Guy all the way, not the "reformer" his fans try to make him out to be..

He's got Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod for bookends, both are long-time ramrods in the Daley machine. Not the choice of a Daley outsider. They may not be golfing buddies, but Daley / Obama are tied at the political hip. Recent history is scattered with people that don't necessarily like each other, but find a little beneficial mutual back-scratching in their interest.

Again, using staff that have been with you from the beginning is neither a crime nor unethical. You also fail to point out the connection between this Chicago corruption and Gates? Or the Daley machine and Shinseki or Jones? Aside for being democrats, how do those senators and governors tie in?

I see. So that fact that he selected a couple people that AREN'T machine candidates somehow proves he's not a part of The Machine? HE's added a couple more since ... glad to see he's got Arne now too, another piece of Daley fluff. Rahm and David are both well-connected guys, so are Arne and LaHood. Check out Jimmy Deleo and Bill Cellini[... Da Guys behind Da Guys/B]

I never claimed "insider" status, I claimed "constituent" status and as a direct observer have not seen any significant action other then the effort he makes to vote "present" on controversial issues (like the Born Alive Act). He is truly a gutless politician of the worst sort (in my opinion as a constituent).

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but your having an negative opinion as a constituent of Obama is neither a crime on his part nor indicative of corruption. You've failed to list any crimes nor any proof of corruption on Obama's part. Yet you want us to believe you based on your direct observations of nothing criminal nor unethical.

Why did nationwide vetting by the press, the Democratic party, the Republican party, and the internet masses fail to turn up evidence of Obama being a yet another corrupt criminal cog in the Chicago political machine? Had these general charges come up before he was a known national figure, they might be worthy of some scrutiny. As is, they're just laughable as the rants of the tinfoil hat brigade or sore losers.

Choosing to overlook what is apparent/obvious to a casual observer is one of the hallmarks of the BHO supporter.

I said early on that we'd just have to wait & see (not like we have a choice at this point), if he does well, good for him. My point is that he's not the squeaky clean Kennedy/Lincoln incarnate that his fans and the press are trying to make him out to be. He's pure Chicago Machine and right down there with Blago ... who is the rule, rather than the exception, for Chicago Politics.