If Kerry wins and my taxes go up

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: chess9
A vote for Bush is a vote for more deficit spending. Bush is like the college freshman who has just gotten 5 new credit cards with $2500 credit limits. He maxes them in the first weekend, then asks Daddy to pay.

Who do you think is going to pay for these deficits? The deficit is now over 7 Trillion dollars. Next year it will be 7.2 Trillion dollars or greater.

What businessman do you know who uses large deficit spending and still stays in business without filing Chapter 11?


-Robert

When small business does this it is called Chapter 7. Mostly big business gets to do Chapter 11 which is essentially screw the debtholders and stockholders and labor while lavishing wealth on the executives and their banking buddies. Look at the airlines. It is a race to see which can have 3 bankruptcies in a decade. If the business model is so bad let them die!

Of course with government we don't even talk about bankruptcy but instead trot out numbers about how small a portion of the GDP the deficit is as if debt doesn't matter. Bush comes right out and says that the "tax relief" underpins our economy. Well if that is true it is time to find a way to make the economy pay its way.

I am a small business owner with about 30 employees. Should we pay higher taxes? Damn right. It's either that or lower the spending. I for one am not willing to take welfare from the self-serving politicians. I take what I feel is my portion of what taxes should be and give it to worthy causes like Shriners Hospitals and CMN. Only way I can sleep at night.

I would suggest that if your business making you a living or not depends on Federal taxation you should find another line of work. After all Federal taxes are on net income not gross. Small income small taxes regardless of what the rate is.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: TranceNation


poor guy, now he won't be able to buy his bmw/mercedes...

or instead of a 200 foot yacht, only get 150 footer.

 

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TranceNation


poor guy, now he won't be able to buy his bmw/mercedes...

or instead of a 200 foot yacht, only get 150 footer.

You guys are messed up. I got no money but am not stupid I rather bust my ass off for a benzo anyday than conform to what I can afford. Don't you guys have goals in life don't you want to make money and improve your standard of living. I used to shop at goodwill and buy ol beat up nike's I don't want to go back to that I can only improve.

 

[sMiLeYz]

Kerry will raise taxes on big corporations by closing tax loopholes, and the ultra wealthy like him and his wife.

 

[Ferocious]

My overall tax burden has gotten worse under Bush.

But I'm middle class, so I was not suprised.

 

[CROSSeyed]

Also since you heard what Bush says about Kerry, have a look at what Kerry says.

That's what he said then, what does he say now, and what will he say in 5 minutes? He will say what the polls tell him to say. He is a weak appeaser like Carter (although Carter did have the Conviction to remain liberal Consistently).

 

[Kibbo]

Hey man, I understand that running a small business is hard.

Thing is, with the huge budget deficits, you either pay it down now, or you pay interest every year and pay it down later. Now, if your business is growing, I can understand why you would want to pay it down later.

But with the demographic pattern in your country, and all the boomers retiring soon, I would suggest that it is better for your country to pay it down now.

 

[Rainsford]

Don't worry, just vote for Bush. He has a magical plan of some kind to spend like crazy while not raising taxes at all. I'm not certain on the specifics, but I think it involves monkeys flying out of my ass.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: Beowulf

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TranceNation


poor guy, now he won't be able to buy his bmw/mercedes...

or instead of a 200 foot yacht, only get 150 footer.

You guys are messed up. I got no money but am not stupid I rather bust my ass off for a benzo anyday than conform to what I can afford. Don't you guys have goals in life don't you want to make money and improve your standard of living. I used to shop at goodwill and buy ol beat up nike's I don't want to go back to that I can only improve.

Live within your means. If you outspend what you earn you go into debt. It is because of people like you that America is in this financial mess. Consumer debt is at an all time high. We are borrowing a billion dollars a day just to keep up with government spending.

Appeasing your meaningless consumerism doesn't make you happy. Instead of buying the latest novelty, try reading an engaging book, play a sport, go to a play, spend some time with your family or just engage in some deep thinking. That new LCD monitor or new iPOD only brings fleeting happiness. Some of the happiest people in the world are also among the poorest.

Living within your means is probably one of the most mature decisions one can make. You are basically saying "Yes I know my limits and I can abide by them. I am in control of my money rather than my money and material possessions are in control of me."

On a side note : I suggest most everyone to take your money out of anything that is US dollar and put it into Chinese Yuan or the Euro. The dollar has steadily been losing value for the last 3 years. It would be prudent to see the trend. With current deficit spending, instability in the stock market, massive overseas loans, and the volality of oil prices (the only physical backing the dollar has btw), the dollar is teetering on a precipitous edge. That's what I've been doing with my last 30 or so paychecks.

 

[theblackbox]

I don't really get how cutting taxes affects employment. Employees are a cost of doing business, they are not paid with after tax dollars are they? If your business needs the employees, how would taxes affect your ability to hire them?

Profit is taxed. We like to make a profit, profit shows us how our company is doing. If we look at our profit, and realize that we can take a cut in the profit in the next year and hire one or more people to make our job easier, we will do it. However, the slimmer the profit margin, the less likely that we will hire anybody else.

If we make over 100,000 profit, we know that the trend for the next year by looking at the last 4 years will mean we will at least do the same or better, and if in the next year, we are willing only to make 70,000 profit, we will hire more people to make our job easier.

But, if taxes go up, we only come out with a net of 70,000, we look at it as Hmmm...

so, if taxes go up, we are less likely to hire.

We are talking about the tax on profit here.

At least that is how we look at it. right or wrong, thats our take.

and, by the way, it's a civic hybrid.

 

[0marTheZealot]

$70,000 is good money. You can easily live very comfortably with that kind of money. Hell 60 or even 50 is plenty good. Why would you want anymore money than that. You can live in a nice house (which I'd be against, but go ahead), drive a decent car (you could *GASP* save up for a benz), have many useless novelties and generally live a decent life. You don't need 200, 300, 400, or 500 thousand dollars a year to be successful. There are other ways to measure success, such as community contribution, raising successful and well-adjusted children, contributing to the worldwide knowledge, etc etc. Money isn't the gauge of success and we have fallen into a bad spiral in which the sole criteon of success is determined by a one's net income.

 

[gururu]

taxes are GOOD so long as they are actually spent on programs that benefit us...like healthcare and social security.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
$70,000 is good money. You can easily live very comfortably with that kind of money. Hell 60 or even 50 is plenty good. Why would you want anymore money than that. You can live in a nice house (which I'd be against, but go ahead), drive a decent car (you could *GASP* save up for a benz), have many useless novelties and generally live a decent life. You don't need 200, 300, 400, or 500 thousand dollars a year to be successful. There are other ways to measure success, such as community contribution, raising successful and well-adjusted children, contributing to the worldwide knowledge, etc etc. Money isn't the gauge of success and we have fallen into a bad spiral in which the sole criteon of success is determined by a one's net income.

Who are you exactly to say what a person's standard of living should be?

The more profitable your business is, the easier it is to expand and create more jobs. I would call that a service the community.

Business owners don't sit on piles of money ala Scrooge McDuck. It is either invested back into the business or sent elsewhere (stocks, bonds, etc..).

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
I'm going to be very angry.
As a small business owner that hires in the community I just want to say I already pay the govenment enough money, that if Kerry wins and my wife and I have to pay even more taxes, I will be upset.
If he wins, and doesn't, I won't mind, but i have the itching feeling that most likely the first thing that will happen is the dems will try to raise taxes on me. My wife and I are not rich, but do not need to pay even more. If we end up paying more, that cuts into our profit, and then that cuts into what we can afford to put into payroll, and will then cause problems with staffing.
I will also be mad if bush wins and does the same, so don't get me wrong, i'm not against kerry or bush. I just wonder if all the people who are so pushing to get kerry in have thought about this or care.
What kind of income do kerry supporters make, do the people that support democrats in general make lots of money so they are used to being taxed? I' not trying to sound negative, i'm just a little naive on the thought process of a democrat.
By the way, i am an independent, last time i voted for browne.

the realities of federal deficits will force:
1. Who ever is the next president will have to raise taxes.
2. The Fed will be raising interest rates to level last seen in the 80's and early 90's.

 

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: Beowulf

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TranceNation


poor guy, now he won't be able to buy his bmw/mercedes...

or instead of a 200 foot yacht, only get 150 footer.

You guys are messed up. I got no money but am not stupid I rather bust my ass off for a benzo anyday than conform to what I can afford. Don't you guys have goals in life don't you want to make money and improve your standard of living. I used to shop at goodwill and buy ol beat up nike's I don't want to go back to that I can only improve.

Live within your means. If you outspend what you earn you go into debt. It is because of people like you that America is in this financial mess. Consumer debt is at an all time high. We are borrowing a billion dollars a day just to keep up with government spending.

Appeasing your meaningless consumerism doesn't make you happy. Instead of buying the latest novelty, try reading an engaging book, play a sport, go to a play, spend some time with your family or just engage in some deep thinking. That new LCD monitor or new iPOD only brings fleeting happiness. Some of the happiest people in the world are also among the poorest.

Living within your means is probably one of the most mature decisions one can make. You are basically saying "Yes I know my limits and I can abide by them. I am in control of my money rather than my money and material possessions are in control of me."

On a side note : I suggest most everyone to take your money out of anything that is US dollar and put it into Chinese Yuan or the Euro. The dollar has steadily been losing value for the last 3 years. It would be prudent to see the trend. With current deficit spending, instability in the stock market, massive overseas loans, and the volality of oil prices (the only physical backing the dollar has btw), the dollar is teetering on a precipitous edge. That's what I've been doing with my last 30 or so paychecks.

Yeah.....or you can just make more money thats the beauty of the USA. Now it would suck to have to pay more of it away in taxes for BS. BTW I'm not talking about happiness alright you don't have to be unhappy to want the best stuff in life. People always assume that though.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
I'm going to be very angry.
As a small business owner that hires in the community I just want to say I already pay the govenment enough money, that if Kerry wins and my wife and I have to pay even more taxes, I will be upset.
If he wins, and doesn't, I won't mind, but i have the itching feeling that most likely the first thing that will happen is the dems will try to raise taxes on me. My wife and I are not rich, but do not need to pay even more. If we end up paying more, that cuts into our profit, and then that cuts into what we can afford to put into payroll, and will then cause problems with staffing.
I will also be mad if bush wins and does the same, so don't get me wrong, i'm not against kerry or bush. I just wonder if all the people who are so pushing to get kerry in have thought about this or care.
What kind of income do kerry supporters make, do the people that support democrats in general make lots of money so they are used to being taxed? I' not trying to sound negative, i'm just a little naive on the thought process of a democrat.
By the way, i am an independent, last time i voted for browne.

Do you make more than 200K? If you do, you are rich by most standards. That's who Kerry is taxing. It's fair to have an issue with taxing the rich, but don't deny you are rich (again compared to most people).

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
$70,000 is good money. You can easily live very comfortably with that kind of money. Hell 60 or even 50 is plenty good. Why would you want anymore money than that. You can live in a nice house (which I'd be against, but go ahead), drive a decent car (you could *GASP* save up for a benz), have many useless novelties and generally live a decent life. You don't need 200, 300, 400, or 500 thousand dollars a year to be successful. There are other ways to measure success, such as community contribution, raising successful and well-adjusted children, contributing to the worldwide knowledge, etc etc. Money isn't the gauge of success and we have fallen into a bad spiral in which the sole criteon of success is determined by a one's net income.

I most definitely agree that money isn't everything but where do you live because $50-70 thousand a year is decent but that's it! I live in NJ and you had better make $100 to be able to afford a nice home. That's reality!

That's the Bush's plan for the middle class. Make us broke and penniless!

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
$70,000 is good money. You can easily live very comfortably with that kind of money. Hell 60 or even 50 is plenty good. Why would you want anymore money than that. You can live in a nice house (which I'd be against, but go ahead), drive a decent car (you could *GASP* save up for a benz), have many useless novelties and generally live a decent life. You don't need 200, 300, 400, or 500 thousand dollars a year to be successful. There are other ways to measure success, such as community contribution, raising successful and well-adjusted children, contributing to the worldwide knowledge, etc etc. Money isn't the gauge of success and we have fallen into a bad spiral in which the sole criteon of success is determined by a one's net income.

Who are you exactly to say what a person's standard of living should be?

The more profitable your business is, the easier it is to expand and create more jobs. I would call that a service the community.

Business owners don't sit on piles of money ala Scrooge McDuck. It is either invested back into the business or sent elsewhere (stocks, bonds, etc..).

It seems common sense to dictate what is a livable standard of life. Anything afterwards is fluff. Having a livable place to live, food in the fridge, some entertainment and a mode of transportation is more than enough for anyone to make a comfortable living. On 22K a year, I think I have eeked out a decent life and really anymore money would just go into euros anyways. I don't need meaningless novelties that only satisfy me for a week or two. Excesses are what makes this country import 12.5 million barrels of oil and hundreds of millions of cubic meters of natural gas a day.

And yes, a more profitable business can create more jobs. I have not argued against this. What I am arguing against is more profit so you can buy more consumerist bullsh!t. Making jobs is great, but when the only goal of profit is to make more profit then you set yourself up for failure when you eventually hit th wall in growth.

Simply being satisified can do a lot.

 

[Vic]

Regardless of who is elected president, regardless of what the candidates promise, taxes and interest rates will go up in the next year or two. The debt and deficit are just too high.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
$70,000 is good money. You can easily live very comfortably with that kind of money. Hell 60 or even 50 is plenty good. Why would you want anymore money than that. You can live in a nice house (which I'd be against, but go ahead), drive a decent car (you could *GASP* save up for a benz), have many useless novelties and generally live a decent life. You don't need 200, 300, 400, or 500 thousand dollars a year to be successful. There are other ways to measure success, such as community contribution, raising successful and well-adjusted children, contributing to the worldwide knowledge, etc etc. Money isn't the gauge of success and we have fallen into a bad spiral in which the sole criteon of success is determined by a one's net income.

Who are you exactly to say what a person's standard of living should be?

The more profitable your business is, the easier it is to expand and create more jobs. I would call that a service the community.

Business owners don't sit on piles of money ala Scrooge McDuck. It is either invested back into the business or sent elsewhere (stocks, bonds, etc..).

It seems common sense to dictate what is a livable standard of life. Anything afterwards is fluff. Having a livable place to live, food in the fridge, some entertainment and a mode of transportation is more than enough for anyone to make a comfortable living. On 22K a year, I think I have eeked out a decent life and really anymore money would just go into euros anyways. I don't need meaningless novelties that only satisfy me for a week or two. Excesses are what makes this country import 12.5 million barrels of oil and hundreds of millions of cubic meters of natural gas a day.

And yes, a more profitable business can create more jobs. I have not argued against this. What I am arguing against is more profit so you can buy more consumerist bullsh!t. Making jobs is great, but when the only goal of profit is to make more profit then you set yourself up for failure when you eventually hit th wall in growth.

Simply being satisified can do a lot.

You are aware that your proposal is Communist in nature, right? I am not flaming, just trying to point that out.

If 22K works for you, great. If 5 Billion works for Gates, great. I don't see any reason limits should be placed on what a person can earn. The prospect of reward (financial or otherwise) is one of the key forces that fuels innovation and progress. If you can always make the same amount and never have to change there is no incentive to think.

The amount of money that wealthy business owners pump back into the economy far exceeds anything they might spend on "meaningless novelties". Who cares if they want a $500,000 car? They made the money so they can spend it as they see fit (like anyone else).

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Check out reality.

Also since you heard what Bush says about Kerry, have a look at what Kerry says.

Never go by a speech.

Yep

 

[theblackbox]

no, we don't make 200,000 a year.

Omar, the profit earned is earned. My wife and I have worked for it, no one handed it to us on a plate, and we did not marry into it or have it given to us. My wife and I put a lot of hours into making the business work.

We live in a 105,000 house, I drive a honda civic hybrid(, and my wife a rav4. We live out in the country. The profit we earn dioes one of two things.
One it goes into savings because we believe in security. If something were to happen to us it is nice to know we have something to fall back on, and the rest goes into investments, so we can have more to put back into our business and our life.
Right now, I have not worked for 3 weeks due to major back surgery, and the money we saved and the decisions we have made have made it possible for us to go about our life without worrying, and without having to rely on the government to give us anything. I have private healthcare, which i gladly pay for to insure that i get the best medicine and technology available. I am glad i do not have an hmo or the government dictating who i have to see or what kind service a doctor can give me.
I am not ostentatious, i do not wear namebrand, or purchase anything to show off that we have mioney.
and most of all i am not rich.
I used to have to walk to work and to college, did not have a car and would scrounge up enough money just to get a big gulp once or twice a week.
I enjoy that i live in a country that allows me to have the chances i have had, and has afforded me to make the choices i have so i can sit here and say this.

I don't gauge success by money, but by my feeling of accomplishment.
I gauge our business success on the amount of income we bring in.

I still go back to what i originally asked, what is the mindset of a democrat or anyone that would want to so heavily tax anyone that found any amount of success or works hard for a living. I want to keep this non partisan, but want to find out what kind of people endorse that kind of activity.

Personally, i prefer the government leave me alone, not provide me with anything except equal protection under the law, and ensure my freedom and liberty as provided under the constitution. I don't want the government running my business, telling me how to run it, or taking what i have worked hard for, but i freely give back to the community i live in without theuir asking, by providing jobs and a valuble service to both the city and the county.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
no, we don't make 200,000 a year.

Well that's who Kerry's targeting for tax increases (relative to the past few years). He promised. Even if you think Kerry WANTS to jack up your taxes it's doubtful because it would be unpopular and Congress is likely to remain Republican.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
$70,000 is good money. You can easily live very comfortably with that kind of money. Hell 60 or even 50 is plenty good. Why would you want anymore money than that. You can live in a nice house (which I'd be against, but go ahead), drive a decent car (you could *GASP* save up for a benz), have many useless novelties and generally live a decent life. You don't need 200, 300, 400, or 500 thousand dollars a year to be successful. There are other ways to measure success, such as community contribution, raising successful and well-adjusted children, contributing to the worldwide knowledge, etc etc. Money isn't the gauge of success and we have fallen into a bad spiral in which the sole criteon of success is determined by a one's net income.

Who are you exactly to say what a person's standard of living should be?

The more profitable your business is, the easier it is to expand and create more jobs. I would call that a service the community.

Business owners don't sit on piles of money ala Scrooge McDuck. It is either invested back into the business or sent elsewhere (stocks, bonds, etc..).

It seems common sense to dictate what is a livable standard of life. Anything afterwards is fluff. Having a livable place to live, food in the fridge, some entertainment and a mode of transportation is more than enough for anyone to make a comfortable living. On 22K a year, I think I have eeked out a decent life and really anymore money would just go into euros anyways. I don't need meaningless novelties that only satisfy me for a week or two. Excesses are what makes this country import 12.5 million barrels of oil and hundreds of millions of cubic meters of natural gas a day.

And yes, a more profitable business can create more jobs. I have not argued against this. What I am arguing against is more profit so you can buy more consumerist bullsh!t. Making jobs is great, but when the only goal of profit is to make more profit then you set yourself up for failure when you eventually hit th wall in growth.

Simply being satisified can do a lot.

You are aware that your proposal is Communist in nature, right? I am not flaming, just trying to point that out.

If 22K works for you, great. If 5 Billion works for Gates, great. I don't see any reason limits should be placed on what a person can earn. The prospect of reward (financial or otherwise) is one of the key forces that fuels innovation and progress. If you can always make the same amount and never have to change there is no incentive to think.

The amount of money that wealthy business owners pump back into the economy far exceeds anything they might spend on "meaningless novelties". Who cares if they want a $500,000 car? They made the money so they can spend it as they see fit (like anyone else).

Because that consumerism fuels a drive for more and more products that we really don't need. Eventually it spirals out of control and we end up in the situation we are in now, in which many people are pursuing careers they don't want to and as a result we have a fairly dissatisified population. Not to mention the resources we have an insatiable lust for and the raping we do to the environment. Nevermind that, I got to get that new iPOD. It's one of the reasons why we import 12.5 million barrels of oil and hundreds of million of cubic meters of natural gas per day. And the day when growth stops in America, and it will one day, the entire system collapses and we, the populace, will have to pick up the pieces.

It seems inevitable that we will have no choice but to live in a planned society. Otherwise, we are just going to buy our way into extinction.

The things you own end up owning you.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
$70,000 is good money. You can easily live very comfortably with that kind of money. Hell 60 or even 50 is plenty good. Why would you want anymore money than that. You can live in a nice house (which I'd be against, but go ahead), drive a decent car (you could *GASP* save up for a benz), have many useless novelties and generally live a decent life. You don't need 200, 300, 400, or 500 thousand dollars a year to be successful. There are other ways to measure success, such as community contribution, raising successful and well-adjusted children, contributing to the worldwide knowledge, etc etc. Money isn't the gauge of success and we have fallen into a bad spiral in which the sole criteon of success is determined by a one's net income.

I most definitely agree that money isn't everything but where do you live because $50-70 thousand a year is decent but that's it! I live in NJ and you had better make $100 to be able to afford a nice home. That's reality!

That's the Bush's plan for the middle class. Make us broke and penniless!

But you see, no one in my area makes even 60k. You can live comfortably here on 16k a year, support a full family easily at 24k. Just because you're silly enough to live in such an expensive area, don't try to dictate to those of us with other values.

I'm not saying earning should be capped, because I don't think it should be - at least not from the govnerment. I'm just pointing out that people have RIDICULOUSLY skewed views of what's 'required' to live.