Doesn't it make sense that 1 planet in an infinite universe could support evolution by chance alone? I see no reason why a higher being would have to make this possible. Just think of it as us winning the biggest lottery ever.
Ryan
Lifer
- Oct 31, 2000
- 27,519
- 2
- 81
Besically the idea on this webpage was in my book: http://208.245.156.153/archive/output.cfm?ID=577 My textbook had a whole chapter devoted to the forming of the universe, and another on the formation of the first living cells (quasi cells), the formation of simple strands of RNA, etc.
If so, then you must be all-knowing too. Soooo... Tell me how the crap I'm supposed to get to my thermostat without removing my AC compressor?
NinjaGnome,
I believe in God (and I didn't for a long time), so don't let what I have to say come across as biased or anything, but here is what I believe.
The earth is roughly 4.6 billion years old. There was absolutely no life on this planet at all. The very first forms of life were created by great chance from inorganic matter (it has been proven that life can form from inorganic matter). This first organic matter, over billions evolved into bacteria, then into the first vertabrate creatures. These creatures moved onto land where they further evolved into mammals, which evolved into variations of primates and humans are the end product of all this evolution. I believe that humans as you know them today will continue to evolve.
ALL life on this planet originally came from the oceans, created in the most inhospitible conditions you can think of.
Now, that explains life on earth, but I don't know how to explain the beginning of the universe. If I use the "big bang" theory, I can follow time all the way back to the instant of the bang. Before that I don't know how to explain how all that matter was put there that could allow the big bang to happen in the first place. I would have to say God put it there, because I can't even comprehend how it could just form itself. That level of understanding is beyond me unless someone can shed more light on it for me.
I believe in God (and I didn't for a long time), so don't let what I have to say come across as biased or anything, but here is what I believe.
The earth is roughly 4.6 billion years old. There was absolutely no life on this planet at all. The very first forms of life were created by great chance from inorganic matter (it has been proven that life can form from inorganic matter). This first organic matter, over billions evolved into bacteria, then into the first vertabrate creatures. These creatures moved onto land where they further evolved into mammals, which evolved into variations of primates and humans are the end product of all this evolution. I believe that humans as you know them today will continue to evolve.
ALL life on this planet originally came from the oceans, created in the most inhospitible conditions you can think of.
Now, that explains life on earth, but I don't know how to explain the beginning of the universe. If I use the "big bang" theory, I can follow time all the way back to the instant of the bang. Before that I don't know how to explain how all that matter was put there that could allow the big bang to happen in the first place. I would have to say God put it there, because I can't even comprehend how it could just form itself. That level of understanding is beyond me unless someone can shed more light on it for me.
I skimmed that page and it seemed like it was just about the beginning life on earth. I'm talking about the whole universe, i.e. what caused the big bang
Someone else said it but here goes...
Why can't the universe just exist without anyone creating it? It's the EXACT same thing religious people think about god. How can you easily believe that god has always existed, yet can't comprehend that the universe always existed?
And that's not even considering which god it is. If I were religious though, I'd be in to Greek Mythology. Zues could totally kick Jesus's ass!
Why can't the universe just exist without anyone creating it? It's the EXACT same thing religious people think about god. How can you easily believe that god has always existed, yet can't comprehend that the universe always existed?
And that's not even considering which god it is. If I were religious though, I'd be in to Greek Mythology. Zues could totally kick Jesus's ass!
that everything needs a creator doesn't work if followed to its logical conclusionThe problem with the big bang is that it supposedly totally removed any evidence of anything that ever existed before it. So there is absolutely, positively, no way to know for sure what happened before it...if anything happened before it at all.
Because as I understand it, in a way, the big bang WAS the beginning of time. Time and space are intertwined, explained by general relativity, and when all matter and energy was squished into the single infinitely dense big bang singularity, time went along with it, and was so utterly, ie infinitely "warped" that in a sense, it didnt flow at all. Time essentially started once the big bang went boom and the universe was created. Its so easy to think of time as always flowing but you have to understand and get it in your head that it really, REALLY doesnt work that way.
Personally, I can accept that, some people just cant. The universe makes sense to me in a way that I cant seem to put into words, but I dont need to affirm or deny the existence of god. I understand that there are absolute limits to human knowledge and awareness, and us trying to figure out the universe is like a rabbit trying to learn astrophysics.
Because as I understand it, in a way, the big bang WAS the beginning of time. Time and space are intertwined, explained by general relativity, and when all matter and energy was squished into the single infinitely dense big bang singularity, time went along with it, and was so utterly, ie infinitely "warped" that in a sense, it didnt flow at all. Time essentially started once the big bang went boom and the universe was created. Its so easy to think of time as always flowing but you have to understand and get it in your head that it really, REALLY doesnt work that way.
Personally, I can accept that, some people just cant. The universe makes sense to me in a way that I cant seem to put into words, but I dont need to affirm or deny the existence of god. I understand that there are absolute limits to human knowledge and awareness, and us trying to figure out the universe is like a rabbit trying to learn astrophysics.
THE CREATION OF THE EARTH
After Borr's sons rolled Ymir's (Hrim-thurs or ice-giant) corpse into the great Abyss they started to remove various components of his body to make the world. From his flesh they made Midgard (middle garden) or as we know it, Earth.The solid protion of Midgard was surrounded by Ymir's blood which created the vast oceans. His bones made the hills, his flat teeth made the cliffs, and his curly hair made the trees and vegetation. When the gods were pleased with their works, they took the giant's skull and poised it above the earth and sea as a great vault of heaven. They then scattered the brains through the air to create the clouds. To support the great vault, the gods stationed the strongest dwarfs, Nordi, Sudri, Austri, Westri, in the four corner of the world, which later became our compass points North, south, east and west. At this time, the gods needed light so they used a spell from Muspells-heim to create small points of light. The brightest points of spark or light were used to make the sun and the moon, which would be pulled through the sky in two golden chariots.
THE CREATION OF MAN
Since the beginning of time, the gods designed Midgard (or Mana-heim) for man to live in. For a while there were no humans in Midgard since the gods were busy creating the rest of the universe. Finally one day Odin, Hoenir (the bright one), and Lodur went walking through Midgard along its shoreline, when they notice two trees. The trees had the semblances of the human form. One tree was ash (Ask) and the other tree was elm (Embla). As the three gods stared at the trees they tried to figure out what they could do with the trees. Finally Odin gave the logs souls, Hoenir granted the trees motion and sense, while Lodur gave them blood and blooming complexions. With life and death, speech and thought, and the power to love and hope, they created man and woman, and left them in Midgard to do whatever they wanted to do. Odin and the other gods watched over them protecting and aiding them when needed, and gradually they populated Midgard with their descendants creating the human race.
link
After Borr's sons rolled Ymir's (Hrim-thurs or ice-giant) corpse into the great Abyss they started to remove various components of his body to make the world. From his flesh they made Midgard (middle garden) or as we know it, Earth.The solid protion of Midgard was surrounded by Ymir's blood which created the vast oceans. His bones made the hills, his flat teeth made the cliffs, and his curly hair made the trees and vegetation. When the gods were pleased with their works, they took the giant's skull and poised it above the earth and sea as a great vault of heaven. They then scattered the brains through the air to create the clouds. To support the great vault, the gods stationed the strongest dwarfs, Nordi, Sudri, Austri, Westri, in the four corner of the world, which later became our compass points North, south, east and west. At this time, the gods needed light so they used a spell from Muspells-heim to create small points of light. The brightest points of spark or light were used to make the sun and the moon, which would be pulled through the sky in two golden chariots.
THE CREATION OF MAN
Since the beginning of time, the gods designed Midgard (or Mana-heim) for man to live in. For a while there were no humans in Midgard since the gods were busy creating the rest of the universe. Finally one day Odin, Hoenir (the bright one), and Lodur went walking through Midgard along its shoreline, when they notice two trees. The trees had the semblances of the human form. One tree was ash (Ask) and the other tree was elm (Embla). As the three gods stared at the trees they tried to figure out what they could do with the trees. Finally Odin gave the logs souls, Hoenir granted the trees motion and sense, while Lodur gave them blood and blooming complexions. With life and death, speech and thought, and the power to love and hope, they created man and woman, and left them in Midgard to do whatever they wanted to do. Odin and the other gods watched over them protecting and aiding them when needed, and gradually they populated Midgard with their descendants creating the human race.
link
Human beings by nature are compelled to understand and learn. We want to know everything about us. Where we come from, why we're here, what is our purpose...
Our understanding is that something has to come from something else. At some point the entire universe and everything in it has to have been created at some point. There is no person in this world that can comprehend what was before the beginning of time. Nobody can comprehend absolute nothingness. Because of this, people have to come up with explanations for why everything is the way it is.
I believe in God, but I have no way to understand where he came from. I don't know how to accept "he always existed", the same way that I couldn't accept that "the universe always existed".
Anubis
No Lifer
Whats so hard about understanding always was and always will be? My mind can grasp it perfectly.
Personally, I am very interested in talking about this stuff. Even if we go in total circles, hearing peoples beliefs makes me think about and refine what I believe.
BT, I'm glad you put "god" and the universe on the same level as far as their existence, but many people don't share your viewpoint.
Usually someone only thinks about it one way and refuses to believe that the other is the same exact thing.
Usually someone only thinks about it one way and refuses to believe that the other is the same exact thing.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Anyone who believes that God would require creation (by another God I assume?) doesn't understand even the most basic concept of what "God" means.
For example:
Rev 1:8 - "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
Rev 22:13 - " I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Hebrews 7:3 - "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God;"
One thing I have noticed about people in general is that we are unable to grasp the concept of "forever." Everything that we believe in must have both a point in time that was creation (birth) and another point time that will be destruction (death). Everything must be like our lives, and we give imaginary life to everything. For example, the Earth has to have a point when it was "born" and we have to speculate a point when it will "die," though in reality the span of years that we involve in this speculation is far beyond our comprehension (there have been just over 1 billion minutes since the time of Christ) Same with the universe, though in reality we have only little more idea of how the universe actually works that we did thousands of years ago (we arrogantly think that we know more than we do, but that is another discussion).
The concept of the Perfect God implies a god that was never created. To the contrary, it is the concept of a god that created Time itself. Hard to grasp? Read my paragraph above. Asides from being able to use external movements in order to measure it, we do not yet have even the smallest grasp of what time really is, or why it exists.
Alright, that's enough. To summarize, the basic point of my post is that if you want to ask the question "and wouldn't there have to be something to create something to create something to create life?" then you may want to watch who you call stupid, because you must not understand the most basic concepts of the Christian/Judaism/Islamic God.
For example:
Rev 1:8 - "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
Rev 22:13 - " I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Hebrews 7:3 - "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God;"
One thing I have noticed about people in general is that we are unable to grasp the concept of "forever." Everything that we believe in must have both a point in time that was creation (birth) and another point time that will be destruction (death). Everything must be like our lives, and we give imaginary life to everything. For example, the Earth has to have a point when it was "born" and we have to speculate a point when it will "die," though in reality the span of years that we involve in this speculation is far beyond our comprehension (there have been just over 1 billion minutes since the time of Christ) Same with the universe, though in reality we have only little more idea of how the universe actually works that we did thousands of years ago (we arrogantly think that we know more than we do, but that is another discussion).
The concept of the Perfect God implies a god that was never created. To the contrary, it is the concept of a god that created Time itself. Hard to grasp? Read my paragraph above. Asides from being able to use external movements in order to measure it, we do not yet have even the smallest grasp of what time really is, or why it exists.
Alright, that's enough. To summarize, the basic point of my post is that if you want to ask the question "and wouldn't there have to be something to create something to create something to create life?" then you may want to watch who you call stupid, because you must not understand the most basic concepts of the Christian/Judaism/Islamic God.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
In the begining there was only chaos. Then out of the void appeared Erebus, the unknowable place where death dwells, and Night. All else was empty, silent, endless, darkness. Then somehow Love was born bringing a start of order. From Love came Light and Day. Once there was Light and Day, Gaea, the earth appeared.
Then Erebus slept with Night, who gave birth to Ether, the heavenly light, and to Day the earthly light. Then Night alone produced Doom, Fate, Death, Sleep, Dreams, Nemesis, and others that come to man out of darkness.
Meanwhile Gaea alone gave birth to Uranus, the heavens. Uranus became Gaea's mate covering her on all sides. Together they produced the three Cyclopes, the three Hecatoncheires, and twelve Titans.
Then Erebus slept with Night, who gave birth to Ether, the heavenly light, and to Day the earthly light. Then Night alone produced Doom, Fate, Death, Sleep, Dreams, Nemesis, and others that come to man out of darkness.
Meanwhile Gaea alone gave birth to Uranus, the heavens. Uranus became Gaea's mate covering her on all sides. Together they produced the three Cyclopes, the three Hecatoncheires, and twelve Titans.
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