If Dr. Paul had won the 2012 Republican nomination...

[nextJin]

IF he had somehow won the Republican nomination it would have happened at the Convention and been a complete surprise leaving the Obama campaign 2 months to deal with him.

They would have absolutely hammered him with rascist commercials. You can't do a 30 second commercial on Austrian vs Keyensian economics, so it would have been "Armageddon with the economy" TV spots

Paul (after finally getting funding and MSM support and coverage) would have countered with previous patients (whom were black getting free medical care), ex service members on foriegn policy, and hammering home how the current economic climate is directly link to government intervention.

The big one would have been hammering home the economic parts because honestly it's hard to factually label him as a racsist even though they would have obviously mentioned the newsletters.

Honestly I think he could have pulled it off because his grass roots and message were extremely strong, he just lacked the establishment support.

This question only really matters with Conservatives because that is who would be making the decision, Jesus could have ran against Obama and the Democrats would have still voted Obama. Their opinion in both this thread and the Republican nominees are irrelevant.

It was the Republicans race to lose and they most certainly did. Anyone would have been a better choice than Romney but that was who the Party leadership wanted.

 

[Anarchist420]

It was the Republicans race to lose and they most certainly did. Anyone would have been a better choice than Romney but that was who the Party leadership wanted.

What about Santorum or Gingrich though? Gingrich's campaign was deeply in debt but he did have a plan and he stuck to it.

I agree that Romney was the worst choice because his campaign sucked and there was too much dirt on him. In addition to that, he didn't have a message, all he did was flip flop like an asshole. That said, the better campaigner pretty much always wins.

Also, thanks for the kind reply

 

[DucatiMonster696]

What about Santorum or Gingrich though? Gingrich's campaign was deeply in debt but he did have a plan and he stuck to it.

I agree that Romney was the worst choice because his campaign sucked and there was too much dirt on him. In addition to that, he didn't have a message, all he did was flip flop like an asshole. That said, the better campaigner pretty much always wins.

Also, thanks for the kind reply

Santorum nope !

- Due of his strong social authoritarian views (i.e. he has vowed to fight the "spread" of libertarianism in the GOP because apparently having to much personal and economic freedom, aka leaving people alone and not using government to push social issues or get into cultural wars is wrong in his opinion).

Gingrich nope!

- Due to his personal baggage (i.e. his serving of divorce papers to his wife fighting cancer was a pretty scumbag move).

 

[88keys]

If I had won the lottery, I'd be a millionaire.

 

[DominionSeraph]

IF he had somehow won the Republican nomination it would have happened at the Convention and been a complete surprise leaving the Obama campaign 2 months to deal with him.

They would have absolutely hammered him with rascist commercials. You can't do a 30 second commercial on Austrian vs Keyensian economics, so it would have been "Armageddon with the economy" TV spots

Paul (after finally getting funding and MSM support and coverage) would have countered with previous patients (whom were black getting free medical care), ex service members on foriegn policy, and hammering home how the current economic climate is directly link to government intervention.

The big one would have been hammering home the economic parts because honestly it's hard to factually label him as a racsist even though they would have obviously mentioned the newsletters.

Honestly I think he could have pulled it off because his grass roots and message were extremely strong, he just lacked the establishment support.

You think the only argument against Ron Paul is the angle that he's a racist?

He supports doing away with the income tax and replacing it with an excise tax, and supports eliminating the capital gains tax. Hello regressive taxation.

He supports selling off federal land. Bye bye national parks. So he supports leaving nothing for future generations in exchange for a short-term gain.

He wants to go back to the gold standard. Minor problem in that it means the current holders of gold now own everything on the planet. Then you have the problem that it allows other countries to "earn" your property just by mining for gold. They mine gold, give it to you in exchange for your stuff, they now have America's stuff and you have a handful of worthless yellow metal that they're quite content you be stuck with.

He wants to eliminate Social Security. That would go over well.

He supports a policy of isolationism. That pits him against corporate interests, who are rather keen on their foreign holdings being protected. And so that also pits him against the people who work in these industries.

He supports an unregulated free market. Not exactly hard to point out the atrocious safety and environmental record of that, with abuses of the worker and consumer massively concentrating wealth at the top.

I'm bored now, so I'll finish with this:
He supports the elimination of FEMA.
Hurricane Sandy says, "Game, set, and match."

 

[nextJin]

You think the only argument against Ron Paul is the angle that he's a racist?

He supports doing away with the income tax and replacing it with an excise tax, and supports eliminating the capital gains tax. Hello regressive taxation.

He supports selling off federal land. Bye bye national parks. So he supports leaving nothing for future generations in exchange for a short-term gain.

He wants to go back to the gold standard. Minor problem in that it means the current holders of gold now own everything on the planet. Then you have the problem that it allows other countries to "earn" your property just by mining for gold. They mine gold, give it to you in exchange for your stuff, they now have America's stuff and you have a handful of worthless yellow metal that they're quite content you be stuck with.

He wants to eliminate Social Security. That would go over well.

He supports a policy of isolationism. That pits him against corporate interests, who are rather keen on their foreign holdings being protected. And so that also pits him against the people who work in these industries.

He supports an unregulated free market. Not exactly hard to point out the atrocious safety and environmental record of that, with abuses of the worker and consumer massively concentrating wealth at the top.

I'm bored now, so I'll finish with this:
He supports the elimination of FEMA.
Hurricane Sandy says, "Game, set, and match."

Way too not look past the obvious, if we went to 2000 spending we could effectively eliminate the income tax. Privatized parks are perfectly acceptable and are usually better ran, more environmentally friendly, and more subjective to their visitors. He "supports" money backed by something, not just gold. He wants to give young people an option for Social Security, your a damned fool. Obviously in your dumb ass views he wanted to kill Social Security, Medicare, etc immediately and let everyone die off. You'd be incredibly wrong. He supports non-intervention, completely different than North Korea. More like Sweden, Norway, or any other number of countries.

I'd continue on but you're a dumbass who got their talking points from MSM, besides he is out of politics so it's irrelevent.

See Anarchist, this is why I fucking hate you posting this bs every week about Ron Paul. You have MF'ers like this who have no idea what they are talking about foaming at thier mouths spouting the most ignorant shit in these Conservative VS Democrat threads when in actuality they haven't the faintest idea of what the fuck they are talking about. It's not just about this subject either, but it is certainly most obvious with anything mentioning Paul.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Way too not look past the obvious, if we went to 2000 spending we could effectively eliminate the income tax.

Way to look past the point I already brought up: that's going to a regressive tax system.

Privatized parks are perfectly acceptable and are usually better ran, more environmentally friendly, and more subjective to their visitors.

It's 1 million square miles, mostly in the middle of nowhere. There's no profit in 99.9% of it as a park -- the public doesn't visit it. The government protects areas for environmental reasons and so the tourist areas are not simply artificially kept gardens.
Sell it off and it's going to be clear cut and strip mined, just like South America is doing with the Amazon.

He "supports" money backed by something, not just gold.

Whatever it is backed with becomes the representation of the wealth. You can't get around that you're artificially raising the value of whatever commodity you're using by declaring it as standard currency. You instantly separate into haves and have-nots. Previous savings are wiped out, and the only people with currency are the ones who have the commodity in question. Everyone else has to sell something to them to get it.

He wants to give young people an option for Social Security, your a damned fool. Obviously in your dumb ass views he wanted to kill Social Security, Medicare, etc immediately and let everyone die off.

He does want to get rid of them, and that's all that matters, as the American People don't want to get rid of them.

You'd be incredibly wrong. He supports non-intervention, completely different than North Korea. More like Sweden, Norway, or any other number of countries.

Norway and Sweden are both in Afghanistan.

you're a dumbass

You're the one who thinks that a man who had only 20% of Romney's votes could have beaten Obama. Ron Paul is not popular. The 19th and 20th centuries showed us that his 18th century ideas don't work. They're ridiculous. Put him up against Obama and the journalists of the media would have had nothing to do but go journey back to the basics taught in every freshmen class and pwn him with them. There's simply no other questions to be had.

 

[Anarchist420]

See Anarchist, this is why I fucking hate you posting this bs every week about Ron Paul. You have MF'ers like this who have no idea what they are talking about foaming at thier mouths spouting the most ignorant shit in these Conservative VS Democrat threads when in actuality they haven't the faintest idea of what the fuck they are talking about. It's not just about this subject either, but it is certainly most obvious with anything mentioning Paul.

LOL. Sorry.

 

[nextJin]

Way to look past the point I already brought up: that's going to a regressive tax system.

You're assuming it is replaced by something or funds are increased with another tax, neither would be the case. It's just gone. Government actually cuts it's ridiculous spending.

It's 1 million square miles, mostly in the middle of nowhere. There's no profit in 99.9% of it as a park -- the public doesn't visit it. The government protects areas for environmental reasons and so the tourist areas are not simply artificially kept gardens.
Sell it off and it's going to be clear cut and strip mined, just like South America is doing with the Amazon.

1 million square miles? Which park might that be? That's more than a 1/4th of the land mass of the entire country.

Whatever it is backed with becomes the representation of the wealth. You can't get around that you're artificially raising the value of whatever commodity you're using by declaring it as standard currency. You instantly separate into haves and have-nots. Previous savings are wiped out, and the only people with currency are the ones who have the commodity in question. Everyone else has to sell something to them to get it.

Again, you are assuming he said a straight abolishment of fiat currency on day 1. Competing currencies is something he said he supports, however he also said as President he would never be able to do it and wouldn't even have it on his agenda.

He does want to get rid of them, and that's all that matters, as the American People don't want to get rid of them.

So he not getting the Republican nomination represents that absurdity? The vast majority of both Republicans and Independents support such a measure, especially the one he proposed which gives young people the option to participate or not. You can ask me how he was going to pay for that, I'll be happy to point you to a pdf released by his campaign.

Norway and Sweden are both in Afghanistan.

Pretty significant difference between less than 100 people baby sitting afghan troops and 90,000 US troops, a non interventionist nation and one that invades because it's scared of their own shadow


You're the one who thinks that a man who had only 20% of Romney's votes could have beaten Obama. Ron Paul is not popular. The 19th and 20th centuries showed us that his 18th century ideas don't work. They're ridiculous. Put him up against Obama and the journalists of the media would have had nothing to do but go journey back to the basics taught in every freshmen class and pwn him with them. There's simply no other questions to be had.

Any specific things that don't work? We did pretty well when gold was tied to the dollar (still not the gold standard most think of which went away in 1913), we did pretty well up until the Korean War, We did pretty well before the Dept of Education, etc etc.

I could go on about what a Paul Presidency would have actually amounted too but people like you really want to hear nothing about it. Which is understandable, honestly I wish the man would just die soon so we can move on. He is forever tainted and was never going to be President.

EDIT

I will add though that while he never amounted to anything legislative wise, his impact has been pretty dramatic. From the rise of libertarianism, rise of the tea party, changing of attitude and media since his rise (Hannitys intro to his radio program changed to include "welcome to the revolution" immediately after Paul retired, among a lot of other things) the mentioning of liberty in MSM (word counts pre and post Paul show a huge increase), the term money bombs, etc.

He definitely cured my apathy, along with millions of other Americans agree with him or not.

 

[Incorruptible]

If Ron Paul had won the nomination he would have beat that disgusting piece of shit pathetic excuse for a human being obama

Ron Paul would have actually fixed the country instead of the POS we have now who prefers fear mongering to avoid cuts and is more interested in his identity politics and liberal BS.

Ron Paul would have changed our foreign policy making us safer compared to obama POS.

 

[Capt Caveman]

If Ron Paul had won the nomination he would have beat that disgusting piece of shit pathetic excuse for a human being obama

Ron Paul would have actually fixed the country instead of the POS we have now who prefers fear mongering to avoid cuts and is more interested in his identity politics and liberal BS.

Ron Paul would have changed our foreign policy making us safer compared to obama POS.

Except he didn't win the nomination and thankfully is gone for good. He's an idiot like the OP and yourself.

 

[Incorruptible]

Except he didn't win the nomination and thankfully is gone for good. He's an idiot like the OP and yourself.

So you prefer that crap obama? Ron Paul had real ideas to fix the economy and look at that POS obama who hasn't fixed the economy or spending

The only idiots are people like you

 

[nextJin]

So you prefer that crap obama? Ron Paul had real ideas to fix the economy and look at that POS obama who hasn't fixed the economy or spending

The only idiots are people like you

Pretty sure the term idiot implies the lack of an education, which of course your posts show in abundance.

 

[Jaskalas]

If Dr. Paul had won the 2012 Republican nomination...

I would have changed my vote to Republican, we still would have lost.

 

[DominionSeraph]

You're assuming it is replaced by something or funds are increased with another tax,

Nope.

1 million square miles? Which park might that be? That's more than a 1/4th of the land mass of the entire country.

And this is the problem with you conservatards: you're intellectually lazy. You just can't be bothered to have a factual basis for your opinions. You're in here writing, when you should be out there reading.

Again, you are assuming he said a straight abolishment of fiat currency on day 1. Competing currencies is something he said he supports,

Anything bought can be sold. Everything is already a competing currency. And dollars win.

So he not getting the Republican nomination represents that absurdity? The vast majority of both Republicans and Independents support such a measure, especially the one he proposed which gives young people the option to participate or not.

If ending Social Security and Medicare was popular on the Right, Republicans would be beating that drum. I'm hearing a whole lot of silence. Not word one about how dem libruls are stealin' ur freedoms.

Any specific things that don't work? We did pretty well when gold was tied to the dollar (still not the gold standard most think of which went away in 1913), we did pretty well up until the Korean War, We did pretty well before the Dept of Education, etc etc.

You don't know much of anything, do you?

 

[nextJin]

Nope.

I got nothing, it's not regressive if you abolish it. Just because the rich get more of their money back doesn't mean shit. It's no longer a regressive "tax" because the "tax" is gone. You want to jump start the economy? Abolish it and witness a miracle.

And this is the problem with you conservatards: you're intellectually lazy. You just can't be bothered to have a factual basis for your opinions. You're in here writing, when you should be out there reading.

Not addressing the question, just crying

Anything bought can be sold. Everything is already a competing currency. And dollars win.

I can't take my toaster into a Wal-Mart to purchase anything, if you're refering to utilizing a barter system to aquire fiat currency then that is not what is being discussed.

If ending Social Security and Medicare was popular on the Right, Republicans would be beating that drum. I'm hearing a whole lot of silence. Not word one about how dem libruls are stealin' ur freedoms.

It's called reform, go look at all of the proposals that have went to the House

You don't know much of anything, do you?

How about you enlighten me?

Obviously your liberal education is superior to my education, especially on history and economics. My mind is a sponge, please offer me guidance so I can be forgiven for my sins.

 

[werepossum]

I wish Obama had at least attempted to socialize medicine. Instead he sat by while the Congressional Dems crafted the corporatist ball of garbage that now bears his name. Obama had the political clout to pull off at least a public option if not a single payer system. He pissed it away and signed a bill that entrenches the private insurance companies even deeper.

You give him too little credit. First, he most certainly did not have the political clout to pull off a public option; it took a great deal of arm-twisting, outright bribing, and a filibuster-proof Democrat/Socialist Senate for him to even seize control of the other 53% of our health care from the states. Second, he managed to get a bill signed which empowers a vast bureaucracy rather than making certain items law, allowing unaccountable government bureaucrats to unilaterally establish requirements that would never pass legislatively. This allows the left to slowly make private health insurance untenable; it's a slow but sure way to achieve total single payer government health care. While he did make more customers for insurance companies in the short run, we've already seen the bureaucracy start forcing insurance companies to provide contraception without charging. Everyone knows this results in higher rates across the board, but it's just the beginning. The bureaucracy has control of what insurance companies must provide, and it has control over what they must charge. This allows the bureaucracy to not only drive private health insurance out of business, but also to milk most of the companies' value along the way as these companies struggle to retain the market, hoping for some relief.

For instance, Obamacare has already cost me a thousand bucks a year, simply by deciding that a health savings account cannot have a yearly out-of-pocket deductible of less than $3,700. Yup, Obamacare has protected me by forcing my insurance company to make me spend more before they start covering anything. Our little company already cannot afford conventional health insurance; once the true mandates begin kicking in, people like us will be driven to the exchanges. However, the exchanges are subject to the same bureaucratic mandates and function under the same economic laws; how long before people like us simply cannot afford health insurance under the exchanges? Not to mention, political donations to the Democrats will soar as businesses and industries seek to have the most damaging requirements set aside.

And that's only the beginning. Already the federal government mandates many things that health care providers must provide for low fixed costs. It's common knowledge that Medicare/Medicaid services are reimbursed below cost, with private health insurance rates raised to compensate. As private health insurance companies are increasingly driven out of the market by diminishing margins and then losses, doctors and hospitals will find it increasingly difficult to make a living. Who is going to fill that void but government? Within a generation, most of America will get their health care insurance from government; within two generations most of America will get their health care from government. Within three generations there will be little remembrance that paying for one's own health care is even theoretically possible.

You should be lining up to kiss this man's shoes. He not only led us to socialized medicine, he made sure it can be far more thorough than could ever pass legislatively. Obama himself said he didn't think it was possible to drive private health insurance out of existence; it will take time. But he's set in motion the machinery to make sure it happens.

 

[nextJin]

But he's set in motion the machinery to make sure it happens.

Even though I disagree with over 90% of his policies and platform, I honestly believe that he is the greatest politician to ever live. He knows what he is doing which is basically all out political warfare. His moves have been genious to be honest, he has effectively been putting Republicans in a no win situation for over 4 years now and will continue to do so until he leaves office.

No other President in our history to my knowledge has been able to do this much continual damage to their opposing party.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

If Ron Paul had won the Republican nomination...

...Tea Party 'Tards, free market dogmatists, and the Republican base would have voted for him...

...And Obama would have still won the election...

...And people would be saying, "What if Romney had won the nomination?"

 

[nextJin]

If Ron Paul had won the Republican nomination...

...Tea Party 'Tards, free market dogmatists, and the Republican base would have voted for him...

...And Obama would have still won the election...

...And people would be saying, "What if Romney had won the nomination?"

I wouldn't be so confident, the spread between Obama and Romney in the election was significantly less in battleground states where the Paul total votes in the primaries was over that.

That is not even including those that voted third party after Romney secured the nomination. Or Paul supporters who stayed home or voted for Obama to spite the GOP.

 

[Incorruptible]

If Ron Paul had won the Republican nomination...

...Tea Party 'Tards, free market dogmatists, and the Republican base would have voted for him...

...And Obama would have still won the election...

...And people would be saying, "What if Romney had won the nomination?"

Ron Paul would have beat that piece of shit obama. obama is a pathetic excuse for a human being and his ideas haven't worked and wont work and has lied numerous times

 

[Matt1970]

If Dr. Paul had won the 2012 Republican nomination the Republican party would truly be dead.

 

[soundforbjt]

1 million square miles? Which park might that be? That's more than a 1/4th of the land mass of the entire country

National parks in U.S.