If a nuke were to be intercepted...

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Gamingphreek

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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If we shot down a nuclear missile that was aimed at us with one of our missiles, what would the effects be. Would we still have to evacuate due to fall out, would cities and what not be destroyed.

Also what exactly is nuclear fall out?

-Kevin
 
roguerower

roguerower

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2004
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It depends on exactly who made the bomb inside the missile. These days, the warheads have so many failsafes in them that they are not completely "armed" until it reaches the target. It all depends on the location of the intercept. High altitude, naw. Low altitude and you gotta worry bout the radioactive isotopes getting spread all over the place. A partial yield is possible however...
 
Gamingphreek

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
11,679
0
81
Well what would happen if it was armed?

What would happen if it wasn't? Im assuming that if it wasn't it would just fall to the earth.

With all the tensions of nuclear programs in Iran, and North Korea, just curious as to what would happen.

-Kevin
 
Gibsons

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
It's highly unlikely the nuke would detonate. Maybe a crude bomb might. If it did, it would be a burst very high in the air, so fallout would be 'minimal.' Not that I'd want to be 5 miles downwind. ;)

Assuming the nuke doesn't go off, the radiation hazard would be very minimal, as long as a chunk of uranium doesn't land on your head, or you decide to pick up a piece of this neat shiny metal you found and carry it in your pocket. But intercepts are probably meant to occur a long way away, like hundreds of miles over the ocean.

edit:

I got interested in nukes a while ago and did some reading, here's some sites. Really interesting stuff imo.

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sci...Reaction/IntrotoNucl/FissionWeapon.htm
 
B

bobsmith1492

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2004
3,875
3
81
Fallout is really pretty overrated. Granted it's better to avoid it than not. However, people still live in Chernobyl, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, and those were the only major releases of radioactive materials (TMI doesn't count). Basically, even if you get hit by a decent dose of radiation, as long as you don't die right away, you can take some iodine tabs and just check yourself for cancer the rest of your life and you'll likely be fine. Your offspring on the other hand... that would probably be the main concern (unless you're not concerned about them) along with increased risk of cancer.
 
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WoodenPupa

Member
Feb 22, 2005
35
0
0
"But intercepts are probably meant to occur a long way away, like hundreds of miles over the ocean. "

That's what I've read as well. The sooner the intercept can occur, the better. The point is to hit it before it's armed.
 
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ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
9,343
0
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It takes two sub-explosions inside the warhead to detonate it. Without that happening, as in the scenarion of the ICBM being shot down, the risk is minimal.
The real worry would be if the wrong people recovered the warhead.

Also, about the cancer part. It's called Vitamin B-17. Not only is cancer perfactly curable despite what doctors (whose lively hood depends on your failing health) say, its very preventable by keeping an alkaline body chemistry.
 
G

Gilby

Senior member
May 12, 2001
753
0
76
Originally posted by: ribbon13
It takes two sub-explosions inside the warhead to detonate it. Without that happening, as in the scenarion of the ICBM being shot down, the risk is minimal.
The real worry would be if the wrong people recovered the warhead.

Also, about the cancer part. It's called Vitamin B-17. Not only is cancer perfactly curable despite what doctors (whose lively hood depends on your failing health) say, its very preventable by keeping an alkaline body chemistry.
Click to expand...

Pffft.
 
C

Calin

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2001
3,112
0
0
Originally posted by: bobsmith1492
Fallout is really pretty overrated. Granted it's better to avoid it than not. However, people still live in Chernobyl, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, and those were the only major releases of radioactive materials (TMI doesn't count). Basically, even if you get hit by a decent dose of radiation, as long as you don't die right away, you can take some iodine tabs and just check yourself for cancer the rest of your life and you'll likely be fine. Your offspring on the other hand... that would probably be the main concern (unless you're not concerned about them) along with increased risk of cancer.
Click to expand...

The iodine would be much better to be taken before the exposure/accident. The idea is that some reactions produce an radioactive isotope of the iod, that will be fixed in the thyroide gland. The iodine tablets "fill" the thyroide with iod, so the radioactive iod will not be absorbed.
 
C

Calin

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2001
3,112
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0
The nuclear warheads can be "destroyed" by shock waves (damaged so that they won't explode). This is a problem if a target is supposed to be hit by several warheads in close proximity (a mile or so) - if a nuke detonates early, the shock wave will shatter the others and destroy them. This problem simply does not exists with conventional bombs, as a bomb's explosion will make the others explode as well.
 
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WoodenPupa

Member
Feb 22, 2005
35
0
0

Also, about the cancer part. It's called Vitamin B-17. Not only is cancer perfactly curable despite what doctors (whose lively hood depends on your failing health) say, its very preventable by keeping an alkaline body chemistry.[/quote]

Who are you, Kevin Trudeau? Urine is the only substance we can make alkaline for a reasonable period of time. Not trying to flame you, but there are tons of websites out there debunking this kind of stuff. Not that the medical community is angelic, but the conspiracy stuff is taken a bit far.
 
roguerower

roguerower

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2004
4,563
0
76
In blowing up the warhead, it all depends on the missile intercepting it. The Patriot system that we designed and then used in the Gulf war to intercept Scuds was very rudimentary as Scuds aren't that hard to shoot down. However a Peacemaker or one of the missiles that we have would need a head-to-head shot in order to take it out. That requires pinpoint accuracy that isn't available now. The factors that need to be taken into account are wind, angle, velocity, blah, blah, blah. But if you think about it, one of those nukes are traveling at 15000+ mph when it re-enters the atmosphere.

BTW, if you didn't already know this, an advanced nuclear missile can hold as many as 10 MIRVs (Multiple Independent Reentry Vehicles). Each one can have at least a 500 KILOTON+ Bomb. Talk about high explosives.
 
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ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
9,343
0
0
Oh its out there. Just not in US hands. The DoD should have never nixed thier contract with Cybeau. Hopefully it won't be a grave mistake. Precision EMP would be a great tool.
 
E

Ecgtheow

Member
Jan 9, 2005
131
0
0
There have been many accidents involving nuclear weapons and none of them resulted in a detonation. As it was said earlier, they're very hard to set off by design.
 
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nick128

Member
Jan 24, 2005
65
0
0
In Tom Clancy's Sum of All Fears he goes over in highly precise terms what it takes to detonate a nuclear bomb. In The Bear and the Dragon they modify the Patriot missle system (mentioned above) to be able to intercept a ballistic inbound.

To Sum up Sum of All Fears (pun intended), a ball of uranium is wrapped in a set of shaped charges (charges that shaped to explode with the bulk of their force going one certain direction) that will compress the ball of uranium to something the size of a pencil erasor, etc. the wire lengths that run from teh detonator to the charges themselves must be the exact same length, lest one charge be early or late and screw up the entire process. As we all know from rudementary physics (you WERE paying atteniton in Jr. High weren't you?) when you compress anything it heats up, well when you compress uranium that much it is heated up enough so that things begin to merge and mutate, and that's where the story gets hazy for me. There's soemthing about tritium (hydrogen-3) being injected into it that makes the reaction really go, and the matter that is lost in all of the merging of atoms is converted to the enery that equals death and destruction. I could dig out my copy of the book and give a more detailed explaination, but if you wanna know go to the library and pick up a copy, damned good book anyway. The point is, unless it's really crummy explosive used to compress the ball, you could shoot one out of the sky with whatever works, and so long as no electrical charge is applied ot the charges to detonate them, the nuclear reaction isn't going to happen. Like with C4 explosive, you can stomp on it, set it on fire, freeze it, throw it, etc. and it's just inert. Apply an electrical charge and boom. that's one reason it and primacord is so popular in any military action, because it's really hard to screw up with it if you know the slightest thing about explosives.

IIRC, not to give anything away iether, in The Bear and the Dragon they shoot down some nuc-tipped rockets with mini-gun fire from Apaches and Blackhawks, as well as missles, and they produced similar results.

You guys can call Clancy's stuff fiction, the stories are. but his technical descriptions, explainations, and sometimes his predictions are spot on (for predictions read Debt of Honor. WHen you get to the last chapter you will understand.)
 
F

f95toli

Golden Member
Nov 21, 2002
1,547
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0
APS published a study about boost phase missile defence a few months ago, as expected they concluded that it is not feasible.

The press-release as well as the report itself is available at
the APS website
 
roguerower

roguerower

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2004
4,563
0
76
I know Clancy is fiction, but almost all of the details are correct. If you look up the details for anything he writes on, it's almost always correct. But don't forget, that in the Sum of All Fears, the original missiles were heat seeking and didn't even hit the MIRV. Therefore, you'd need something like an AEGIS radar to pilot RADAR guided missiles for a head-to-head kill since everything else won't work because the closure speeds are too great.
 
Gibsons

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Originally posted by: nick128
In Tom Clancy's Sum of All Fears he goes over in highly precise terms what it takes to detonate a nuclear bomb. In The Bear and the Dragon they modify the Patriot missle system (mentioned above) to be able to intercept a ballistic inbound.

To Sum up Sum of All Fears (pun intended), a ball of uranium is wrapped in a set of shaped charges (charges that shaped to explode with the bulk of their force going one certain direction) that will compress the ball of uranium to something the size of a pencil erasor, etc. the wire lengths that run from teh detonator to the charges themselves must be the exact same length, lest one charge be early or late and screw up the entire process. As we all know from rudementary physics (you WERE paying atteniton in Jr. High weren't you?) when you compress anything it heats up, well when you compress uranium that much it is heated up enough so that things begin to merge and mutate, and that's where the story gets hazy for me.
Click to expand...

Boosting with tritium and deuterium can double the yield of a fission weapon. You can get a small amount of d+t fusion which yields helium and very high energy neutron. The high energy neutrons increase the fission burn. Actual explosive yield directly from the fusion reaction is small, so it's not really a fusion weapon/hydrogen bomb.

explained better and in more detail here
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sci...ion/TypesofNuclear/CombinedFission.htm
 
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nick128

Member
Jan 24, 2005
65
0
0
Originally posted by: roguerower
I know Clancy is fiction, but almost all of the details are correct. If you look up the details for anything he writes on, it's almost always correct. But don't forget, that in the Sum of All Fears, the original missiles were heat seeking and didn't even hit the MIRV. Therefore, you'd need something like an AEGIS radar to pilot RADAR guided missiles for a head-to-head kill since everything else won't work because the closure speeds are too great.
Click to expand...

You talking Sum of All Fears or Bear and hte Dragon? they never shot any down in Sum of All Fears :) Bear and the Dragon they used an entire shipfull of MarkIVs and MarkIIIs launched from an Aegis cruiser :) 'cause Gregory got pissed after like the 3rd missle when he realized he had them set to target the heat source rather than the nose of hte MIRV. That was why pure luck saved the fictional Washington :) Made for a nailbiter of an ending though :)
 
G

Gilby

Senior member
May 12, 2001
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