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LookBehindYou

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2010
2,412
1
81
Capt Caveman said:
Incorrect. If so, why don't they do so? Contracts, Patents, Marketing, etc. Unless Foxconn wants to change their business and become a different company then doing what they do well, good luck. Do you currently buy any Foxconn branded products?

And part of any valuation will include assets.
Click to expand...


Was getting ready to quote the same thing. If it was so easy, Foxconn would've done it.
 
Capt Caveman

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
LookBehindYou said:
Was getting ready to quote the same thing. If it was so easy, Foxconn would've done it.
Click to expand...

Foxconn does have their own branded products. I have a Foxconn graphics card somewhere in my closet. Unless, Foxconn plans to hire and develop a Marketing department that is going to spend billions of dollars to develop a brand image to the likes of Samsung, Apple, Intel, etc...

Oh wait, they'll just be sued into oblivion before that happens and their customers will just find another manufacturer.
 
Deeko

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Lifted said:
Where is Zune?

Where are all of the Windows Phones? Verizon is selling one.

Other than their Windows OS on PC's, what traction does Microsoft have in the consumer space?
Click to expand...

XBox, Kinect (the fastest selling consumer electronics product in history), Office (sure, its used by enterprises, but its used by almost every student on the planet too)...sure, Windows Phone and Zune haven't taken the world by storm, but that doesn't mean Microsoft doesn't have any traction in the consumer market.
 
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Patranus

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Deeko said:
XBox, Kinect (the fastest selling consumer electronics product in history), Office (sure, its used by enterprises, but its used by almost every student on the planet too)...sure, Windows Phone and Zune haven't taken the world by storm, but that doesn't mean Microsoft doesn't have any traction in the consumer market.
Click to expand...

Its 2011 not 1990

Let me illustrate the point for you.....

z


Ya, Microsoft sure has been hitting those growth (and future growth) industries over the past 5 years. That 0% growth is sure impressive over Apples 450% growth.

(Well 0% growth in stock price is pretty impressive but for other reasons)

LOL.
 
Deeko

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Patranus said:
Its 2011 not 1990

Let me illustrate the point for you.....

z


Ya, Microsoft sure has been hitting those growth (and future growth) industries over the past 5 years. That 0% growth is sure impressive over Apples 450% growth.

(Well 0% growth in stock price is pretty impressive but for other reasons)

LOL.
Click to expand...

Look Patranus, I know you like your Apple stuff. You've made that clear before. That's your opinion, and that's fine - but did you even read my post? Clearly you did not, you just saw someone defend Microsoft and instantly attacked with something you thought would be "powerful", but unfortunately, it was not at all relevant to what I said. Someone asked if they had any traction in the consumer market outside of Windows. I responded with several examples where they exhibit quite a bit of traction in the consumer market. You respond with....stock charts?

Yea, Microsoft stock has been flat for the last decade, but have you actually looked at their earnings? They're still fantastic, and yes - they've seen a ton of growth in the Entertainment & Devices department, which includes several of the items I posted above.

So, now that we've gotten that out of the way, this thread really has nothing to do with any of that anyway, so I'm not going to get into a mindless Apple vs Microsoft debate with you. Hell, the story in the OP is about them supposedly partnering, not competing.
 
Deeko

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
alfa147x said:
Which means nothing:

nvm im not getting into this
Click to expand...

*shrug* Someone asked if they had any traction in consumer markets. Regardless of your opinion of the Kinect, that's obviously showing that consumers were interested in one of their products, wouldn't you agree? When the iPad set that same record in 2010, Apple enthusiests were more than happy to trumpet it boldly.

But, you're right - lets not get into this.
 
Patranus

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Deeko said:
Kinect (the fastest selling consumer electronics product in history)
Click to expand...

Kinect (might have been) the fastest selling ACCESSORY in history but that is relatively irrelevant if it doesn't provide Microsoft with a recurring revenue stream.

As of January 2011, about 8 million Kinect gaming ACCESSORIES have been sold.
To put that into perspective, more than 50 million PS3 controllers (a gaming accusatory) have been sold.

Deeko said:
Office
Click to expand...

Office is sure a nice desktop product. Too bad it is targeted at the 1990 way of doing business and using a computer.

Look, there is what computers were, what computers are, and what computer will be.

Microsoft is targeting what computers were. Apple is targeting what computers are and what they will become.

THAT is why they are not competitors in both companies core businesses. THAT is why Microsofts stock has been flat. THAT is why Apple stock is up 450%.


Oh and BTW, Angry Birds sold 350 million copies, what is the most an xBox game has sold?
(Hint: The answer is 12 million)
 
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Deeko

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
*sigh* You don't think Kinect offers a recurring revenue stream? Those millions of people didn't buy it just to use voice control of their ESPN3 stream. Its a game console...its a platform for people to buy more stuff. Whether you think they'll continue buying Kinect games or not is a different story, but obviously its a platform for recurring revenue.

And your Office comparison is off the mark. Regardless of if its on a desktop, laptop, or tablet - people still need to write papers, spreadsheets, and presentations. Office suites remain relevant regardless of platform.

edit: urgh, you keep roping me in, I'm not doing it again. Respond with whatever you'd like, Patranus, if it isn't about the story in the OP I'm not responding to you again.
 
Ns1

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
Patranus said:
Office is sure a nice desktop product. Too bad it is targeted at the 1990 way of doing business and using a computer.
Click to expand...

welcome to most corporate IT departments...you know, people who actually BUY office.
 
Anubis

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Patranus said:
Office is sure a nice desktop product. Too bad it is targeted at the 1990 way of doing business and using a computer.
Click to expand...

you really are delusional, computers arent going anywhere in the coporate world. there is not a mobile device powerful enough to run anything i need for work besides a shitty email program
 
silverpig

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
Lifted said:
Apple sells computers which have an Apple OS installed giving them the ability to tune the user experience as they see fit. Microsoft sells software. While not completely different market segments, it's apples and oranges.

The point is Intel would never sell a phone to a consumer, so his point makes no sense. Intel makes components that get used in consumer products. Apple designs and sells consumer products. Apple could decided to use whatever phone parts Intel makes, just like they could use whatever parts nvidia or AMD makes. silverpig seems to think Intel has the ability to compete with Apple at the consumer level, which is 1) unlikely to happen, and 2) and has no historical basis to support such an assumption. Intel is good and making components, and Apple is good and making pretty looking products (sometimes using those components) that people are willing to pay a premium for. The same components can be found in cheaper products that consumers don't want.
Click to expand...

No you missed the point. Intel manufactures technology and Apple doesn't. If Intel develops some new tech that Apple is shut out of, Apple has no way to respond. THAT is the point. Intel could do it themselves, or they could exclusively license to Samsung.

If you outsource everything, the best you can do is to make things that everyone else can make. Apple's hardware isn't any better than anyone else's. They add value in the things they do themselves (software), but leave themselves exposed to technology risk.
 
silverpig

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
Capt Caveman said:
Incorrect. If so, why don't they do so? Contracts, Patents, Marketing, etc. Unless Foxconn wants to change their business and become a different company then continue doing something that they have become good at, good luck. Do you currently buy any Foxconn branded products? No, you don't.

And part of any valuation will include assets.
Click to expand...

It's because Foxconn has no software and no desire to be the next Apple. What about contracts? Yeah they have a contract not to sell iPhones themselves, but that doesn't stop them from producing phones for anyone else, including themselves. Patents stop them from selling iPhones, but they can come up with their own (they don't really have the capability to do so though). Marketing is something they don't do, but they could.

I think I had a foxconn motherboard once. Maybe not.

Nope. Valuations use a discounted cash flow (DCF) model and completely ignore assets and liabilities (well, except as they weigh in on the cost of the company's borrowing which affects their profits). Some of this may change in M&A deals where assets are going to be sold off, or cash used to buy stock etc.

For example, if a company is projected to have an EPS of $5 forever and ever, and their cost of capital is 10%, the stock is worth $50/share. The only 2 things that went into that valuation have nothing to do with assets. This is overly simplified, but the vast majority of most valuations are based around profit.
 
Ns1

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
silverpig said:
Never said it was easy, but if Foxconn could, Apple would be screwed.
Click to expand...

then BFD, Apple walks around with 25 billion in cash and says "who wants to make some money?"


Apple just dropped Samsung like a bad habit and went to someone else.
 
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