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Discussion i7-11700K preliminary results

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gdansk

Senior member
Feb 8, 2011
746
448
136
I might end up "upgrading" to the 8-core i9-11900K just for the PCIe 4.0 feature.

Why not wait for Alder Lake then? Or you want to reuse the same motherboard?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,162
1,390
126
Ok, I don't have any evidence you're lying or would lie, so I will take your word for it.

Since I believe your claim that it's a historical trend, we can assume their intel prices were also bad in 2017/2018. Despite mindfactory's extortionate intel pricing, people didn't seem to mind shopping there when intel's products were more attractive.

You could certainly say that german/euro specific figures aren't directly applicable globally, but I don't think it's valid to use pricing as a reason to discount the accuracy of their data for the local market.
What does historical AMD/Intel ratios have anything to do with the subject? The subject is pricing. You might have noticed, but AMD chips have gotten a lot better over the recent years. Much better than Intel chips in many applications. That has a strong impact on why more AMD chips are sold--there would be a strong shift towards more AMD chips. That still has nothing to do with Mindfactory's pricing AMD chips better than they price Intel's chips.

I also said nothing about making them directly applicable globally, nothing about discounting the accuracy of their data either (I have to assume their data is correct because I have no reason to disbelieve them nor evidence against their data). Those are your words. I said that they have great AMD pricing. I also said that I won't trust their pre-launch and even pre-review Intel pricing on the 11700K until I see more data on final pricing. Why does this seem to bother you so much?

I say this as I type on an AMD Ryzen 5 Pro 2400GE.
 
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pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
421
162
116
What does historical AMD/Intel ratios have anything to do with the subject? The subject is pricing. You might have noticed, but AMD chips have gotten a lot better over the recent years. Much better than Intel chips in many applications. That has a strong impact on why more AMD chips are sold--there would be a strong shift towards more AMD chips. That still has nothing to do with Mindfactory's pricing AMD chips better than they price Intel's chips.

I also said nothing about making them directly applicable globally, nothing about discounting the accuracy of their data either (I have to assume their data is correct because I have no reason to disbelieve them nor evidence against their data). Those are your words. I said that they have great AMD pricing. I also said that I won't trust their pre-launch and even pre-review Intel pricing on the 11700K until I see more data on final pricing. Why does this seem to bother you so much?

I say this as I type on an AMD Ryzen 5 Pro 2400GE.
i guess I need to clarify the sequence of events..

My first post in this thread was here where I offered an explanation of why mindfactory is always mentioned in articles about AMD outselling Intel

You quoted my response with this:
(1) Yes, they are one of the only places that publishes sales data.
(2) But, they also have consistently good AMD prices and consistently bad Intel prices over time. Yes, occasional sales in Intel prices are okay. But I'm talking about long term trends.
Were you not saying, based on the context of you quoting me, that because of mindfactory's bad intel pricing, their statistics regarding marketshare would be inaccurate? If not, why quote me at all?
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,851
2,402
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(1) Yes, they are one of the only places that publishes sales data.
(2) But, they also have consistently good AMD prices and consistently bad Intel prices over time. Yes, occasional sales in Intel prices are okay. But I'm talking about long term trends.

Those are not mutually exclusive points.

I posted better intel prices in Germany at other German sites a few posts above. I'll use the same sites for AMD chips. Here are current AMD 5800X prices with Mindfactory significantly cheaper:
How about one of Mindfactory's best sellers, the 3600 with Mindfactory significantly cheaper:
Could keep going on and on, day after day, but I doubt people will believe actual links with actual prices here because they often have ulterior motives.
Man, speaking as someone who's actually living in Germany, I have to contradict you again. These prices you wrote change weekly. When I bought my current PC last year, the CFL refresh CPUs were so well priced that I couldn't justify buying AMD, so I ended up with a 9900K. Yet, their published DIY sales data that time was practically the same.
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,851
2,402
136
Ok, I don't have any evidence you're lying or would lie, so I will take your word for it.

Here's a chart of their sales from a couple years ago:


Since I believe your claim that it's a historical trend, we can assume their intel prices were also bad in 2017/2018. Despite mindfactory's extortionate intel pricing, people didn't seem to mind shopping there when intel's products were more attractive.

You could certainly say that german/euro specific figures aren't directly applicable globally, but I don't think it's valid to use pricing as a reason to discount the accuracy of their data for the local market.
He's not lying, he's just clueless and he's making broad general statements backed with from a single day when he writes his comments. That's what I call having an agenda.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,162
1,390
126
He's not lying, he's just clueless and he's making broad general statements backed with from a single day when he writes his comments. That's what I call having an agenda.
My agenda is always the truth. My offer is still out there. If anyone wants to seriously look into it, lets together make a tracking thread. Each one of us choose a day of the week and we'll update the thread with German CPU prices from German companies. I'll even let you choose the CPUs to track and method of proof (links, images, or just trust the posters with numbers, etc). Any takers?

I chose Thursday, apparently, when doing post #45. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/i7-11700k-preliminary-results.2591301/post-40453704
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,389
587
126
My agenda is always the truth. My offer is still out there. If anyone wants to seriously look into it, lets together make a tracking thread. Each one of us choose a day of the week and we'll update the thread with German CPU prices from German companies. I'll even let you choose the CPUs to track and method of proof (links, images, or just trust the posters with numbers, etc). Any takers?

I chose Thursday, apparently, when doing post #45. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/i7-11700k-preliminary-results.2591301/post-40453704
As someone reading this from the outside I will take the word of the guy living in Germany the rest of this is just unnecessary work. Just accept the L and move on.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
17,341
1,387
126
Why not wait for Alder Lake then? Or you want to reuse the same motherboard?
Yes, use the same Gigabyte Z490 Vision D system which I built early Sept 2020 to upgrade from a Asus X79 Sabertooth (2012). :D
Or maybe you're right, wait end of year for Alder Lake, the LGA 1700 mobo and DDR5.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,162
1,390
126
As someone reading this from the outside I will take the word of the guy living in Germany the rest of this is just unnecessary work. Just accept the L and move on.
I publicly accept losses, when I am wrong. If not, I stubbornly keep going. People here won't accept current data and want a website to link to for past data. That website doesn't exist. So the only way to move forward if you value truth is to create that website. Of course, if only one person on one side of the argument makes this list, I again doubt that people will put trust into it. That is why I need people on the other side of the argument to join in.
 
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B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,481
610
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My agenda is always the truth. My offer is still out there. If anyone wants to seriously look into it, lets together make a tracking thread. Each one of us choose a day of the week and we'll update the thread with German CPU prices from German companies. I'll even let you choose the CPUs to track and method of proof (links, images, or just trust the posters with numbers, etc). Any takers?

I chose Thursday, apparently, when doing post #45. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/i7-11700k-preliminary-results.2591301/post-40453704
If you really are dead set on what ever this is, PC Park Picker tracks historical prices, for the USA anyway.

Here is the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 over 2 years.


The USA seems to run on weekly sales with weekend specials. See the Newegg Tusday / Friday e-mails, Micro Center weekend sales.

Maybe people that live / have lived in Germany can espouse on the CPU sales / specials patterns they have seen in a different thread?


For thread posterity, 11900K et al would be more exciting to me if it was on a smaller node :grimacing:
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
4,948
263
126
Pretty pointless launch. It's not clear who the target market for this is, as it's inferior for both games and productivity. They may as well have cancelled these and just keep selling the Comet Lakes, which are still good at their current prices.
 

uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
1,911
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Now now guys, there are still BIOS updates left to come that will hopefully improve performance.

But I have to be honest. This is pretty underwhelming. I wonder how much can actually change in this next month too.
 

Timorous

Senior member
Oct 27, 2008
699
805
136
Now now guys, there are still BIOS updates left to come that will hopefully improve performance.

But I have to be honest. This is pretty underwhelming. I wonder how much can actually change in this next month too.
Ian said in the Reddit thread that he was using the latest beta BIOS from the motherboard supplier and the supplier did not know when the next BIOS from Intel is due.

We know it can make a difference because look at OG Zen from the launch BIOS to a few months later, not sure that much will change between now and the official launch though.

I think the interesting thing to look at from the likes of GN etc will be how much tuned memory affects performance and if RL has more memory tuning headroom then Zen 3.
 
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uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
1,911
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Ian said in the Reddit thread that he was using the latest beta BIOS from the motherboard supplier and the supplier did not know when the next BIOS from Intel is due.

We know it can make a difference because look at OG Zen from the launch BIOS to a few months later, not sure that much will change between now and the official launch though.

I think the interesting thing to look at from the likes of GN etc will be how much tuned memory affects performance and if RL has more memory tuning headroom then Zen 3.
Yeah, I just saw that now too.

Well.

Erm.

That's shockingly disappointing. I genuinely don't know what to say if OEMs aren't sure Intel will fix the buggy microcode before launch. That actually kinda sucks for day one reviews.

But at the same time, it's also totally deserved with marketing trying to push a Q1 launch way too much.
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
15,133
5,938
146
Ouch.

If I were building a system right now, I'd go with an AMD CPU (now that they are finally producing enough for the retail channel to end the scalping), or go with the 10th gen Comet Lake and save the money since they aren't really behind the 11th gen in much of anything.
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
15,133
5,938
146
The 10850K is looking to be a really good all rounder.
Yeah, something like that or even the 10700 variants (which have been in the $270 - $320 range for the most part).

I imagine places like Newegg and BH Photo will have some good combo deals on the higher end 10th gen parts soon.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
52,280
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Ouch.

If I were building a system right now, I'd go with an AMD CPU (now that they are finally producing enough for the retail channel to end the scalping), or go with the 10th gen Comet Lake and save the money since they aren't really behind the 11th gen in much of anything.
Are they going to produce 11th-Gen (True 11th-Gen, with the Xe graphics) Celeron/Pentium Gold CPUs? Because those might have some value for desktop work and online video-watching/HTPC applications.

The reason is, finally, with 11th-Gen, Intel will now support 4K UHD @ 60Hz, over HDMI2.0, rather than limited to 4K UHD @ 30Hz over HDMI 1.4 (*) like 10th-Gen ("Gen 9 iGPU") and below. (*) Speaking strictly of the HDMI output, which is the most commonly-used, I believe. Intel CPUs older than 11th-Gen could do 4K UHD @ 60Hz over DisplayPort, but who has a TV that takes DP?

Edit: I picked up this bit of info, reading the detailed mobo specs for 500-series chipset mobos with HDMI output ports on Newegg.
 
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