Discussion i7-11700K preliminary results

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

early benchmarks

more benchmarks

Just thought I would provide these so folks could draw their own conclusions. Evidently the processors have been getting sold for a few days now in Germany.

 

[dmens]

Says a dude who has proven his incompetence time and time again. Last time being this preciuos gem of incompetence in this very thread:



And btw, inter core communications have EVERYTHING to do with L3 latency. No need to push your incompetence an inch further.

EDIT: did some testing:

10900K 4.7Ghz uncore:

Local Socket L2->L2 HIT latency 21.2
Local Socket L2->L2 HITM latency 24.0

10900K 4,3Ghz uncore:

Local Socket L2->L2 HIT latency 23.4
Local Socket L2->L2 HITM latency 26.0

Nice one, cutting out the part of my post where I state that you can simply inspect clock ratios and timings to exclude all the FUD you have been pushing about the BIOS. Unless you actually think the BIOS settings can have an effect on memory speeds even with apples-to-apples control register settings. Well... I won't put anything past you at this point.

And obviously L3 latency is related to core movement latency. But it is your statement regarding inter-core data movement time being much higher than L3 access latency as "making little sense" is just laughable and ignorant... as if the entire process of maintaining cache coherency and moving data is just thrown out the window.

When are you going to stop with this FUD and apologize on behalf of your friends over on the Intel speculation/rumormongering/tealeaf reading thread on just being utterly and totally wrong about Rocketlake?

 

[Kocicak]

Was this the microcode improvement because of which was the launch of these processors delayed?

 

[Makaveli]

Was this the microcode improvement because of which was the launch of these processors delayed?

This is difficult to read.

Are you asking if the mircocode update is the reason the processor launch was delayed?

 

[JoeRambo]

Nice one, cutting out the part of my post where I state that you can simply inspect clock ratios and timings to exclude all the FUD you have been pushing about the BIOS. Unless you actually think the BIOS settings can have an effect on memory speeds even with apples-to-apples control register settings. Well... I won't put anything past you at this point.

And obviously L3 latency is related to core movement latency. But it is your statement regarding inter-core data movement time being much higher than L3 access latency as "making little sense" is just laughable and ignorant... as if the entire process of maintaining cache coherency is just thrown out the window.

When are you going to stop with this FUD and apologize on behalf of your friends over on the Intel speculation thread on just being utterly and totally wrong about Rocketlake?

Nice moving of goal posts just like with instructions, uCode and now L3 latency not impacting HIT/HITM latencies FUD

Anyway i am here not to fight some random dude on the internet, but rather to point out that Anandtech inter-core test is still having problems with Rocket Lake, ones it should not have.

 

[jpiniero]

Unless Intel surprises dramatically on pricing for Rocket Lake, these will be a poor value for gaming.

Weird. Only other thing I can wonder about is whether it's reducing the frequency pretty far when the Tau ends.

 

[dmens]

Nice moving of goal posts just like with instructions, uCode and now L3 latency not impacting HIT/HITM latencies FUD

Anyway i am here not to fight some random dude on the internet, but rather to point out that Anandtech inter-core test is still having problems with Rocket Lake, ones it should not have.

Find a post of me saying cache latency does not affect core-to-core data time. Until then, feel free to continue to wallow in your own ignorance.

By the way, how many AVX-512 instruction schedulers have you worked on? I designed two. One of them from scratch. Both were totally failed projects, but hey, that still counts more than whatever you have done (zero). I basically doxxed myself to a few dozen people with that statement but it isn't like I will degrade myself by going back to Intel at this point, LOL.

 

[JoeRambo]

Find a post of me saying cache latency does not affect core-to-core data time. Until then, feel free to continue to wallow in your own ignorance.

How about this bs attack?




Anyway just like that last time when you were proven wrong about AVX512 stuff ( despite claims of being ex Intel and supposedly working on "AVX-512 instruction schedulers " whatever that is ), You move goal posts and continue with tangential bs.

There will be no more arguing with dmens in this thread.
Do I make myself clear?

Iron Woode
Super Moderator

 

[dmens]

How about this bs attack?

View attachment 41081


Anyway just like that last time when you were proven wrong about AVX512 stuff ( despite claims of being ex Intel and supposedly working on "AVX-512 instruction schedulers " whatever that is ), You move goal posts and continue with tangential bs.

Oh wow, I will add basic English comprehension to your list of glaring deficiencies.

"AVX-512 instruction schedulers " whatever that is

LOL, whatever that is. The reservation station is the part of the design that handles data hazarding and schedules instructions to be emitted to the execution blocks. So... it has to know a thing or two about instruction latency.... you can figure out why in your own time and fantasy world.

How about you and JoeRambo knock off the bickering?
This will not be tolerated any longer.

Iron Woode
Super Moderator

 

[eek2121]

Stick a fork in the argument, microcode and BIOS updates will not save Rocket Lake.

Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

Exhibit C:

With the Ryzen 7 5800X now permanently in stock (and with a discount at Microcenter!) plus the occasional fire sale on 9th gen and 10th gen i9 parts, it would appear that those who want the best performance have their chip (5800X) and those who want the best bang for their buck have their chip (previous gen Intel parts).

Unless Intel surprises dramatically on pricing for Rocket Lake, these will be a poor value for gaming.

AMD is an absolutely BRUTAL competitor. They managed to shore up the 5600X and 5800X availability the second Rocket Lake started making an appearance.

 

[eek2121]

At least Intel keeps it’s dwarf fortress lead.

 

[Mopetar]

5800X has been in stock from launch for the most part. Is it surprising that fewer people want to buy a CPU where it costs $150 more than (or an extra 50% over) the 5600X for 2 additional cores? That's just not a good value.

If you look at it the other way you only need to pay an additional $100 for 4 additional cores over the 5800X, which makes is less appealing for someone who might be willing to spend a bit more than $300 for a CPU. Alternatively you can think of it as a 5600X buyer getting 2 more cores for $150 or 6 more (or doubling the number of cores they get) for $250.

The stock levels of the 5600X improving are certainly welcome and hopefully it means that the 5900X and 5950X will follow suit in short order, but the 5800X is the Team Red-headed step child of the lineup. I suspect it's mainly selling because people weren't able to get a 5600X or a 5900X and decided to take what they could get.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Alternatively you can think of it as a 5600X buyer getting 2 more cores for $150 or 6 more (or doubling the number of cores they get) for $250.

That and an extra 32MB L3 cache. Of course it's spread over two CCXs, so YMMV in usefulness.

 

[eek2121]

5800X has been in stock from launch for the most part. Is it surprising that fewer people want to buy a CPU where it costs $150 more than (or an extra 50% over) the 5600X for 2 additional cores? That's just not a good value.

If you look at it the other way you only need to pay an additional $100 for 4 additional cores over the 5800X, which makes is less appealing for someone who might be willing to spend a bit more than $300 for a CPU. Alternatively you can think of it as a 5600X buyer getting 2 more cores for $150 or 6 more (or doubling the number of cores they get) for $250.

The stock levels of the 5600X improving are certainly welcome and hopefully it means that the 5900X and 5950X will follow suit in short order, but the 5800X is the Team Red-headed step child of the lineup. I suspect it's mainly selling because people weren't able to get a 5600X or a 5900X and decided to take what they could get.

Not in the U.S. Also Canada.

EDIT: The 5800x is underrated. It is a very solid chip. IMO core counts don’t matter as much as price/performance.

 

[linkgoron]

AT received updated microcode and also confirmed they were using 1:1

Rocket Lake Redux: 0x34 Microcode Offers Small Performance Gains on Core i7-11700K

www.anandtech.com

In one case at low resolution settings it was as high as +12%, however +2-3% was typical at 1080p maximum quality.

We can see Anandtech's bias right there. It's known that real Intel gamers only play on 720p and especially 480p, and yet they just scoff at a 12% increase!

 

[CHADBOGA]

Not in the U.S. Also Canada.

EDIT: The 5800x is underrated. It is a very solid chip. IMO core counts don’t matter as much as price/performance.

If all the chips were available, the 5800x makes no sense considering the price of the 5900x.

 

[Mopetar]

The 5800x is underrated. It is a very solid chip. IMO core counts don’t matter as much as price/performance.

Does the 5800X perform 50% better in anything than the 5600X? That's what it's price dictates it should do.

It's not a bad CPU, it's just badly priced. At $400 it would be far more inline with what it offers.

Put things in perspective. Factors have converged in such a way to create one of the largest shortages of technology products in immediate recollection. Yet somehow that 5800X is always in stock. I think that speaks plenty to its value as priced.

 

[Kocicak]

Does the 5800X perform 50% better in anything than the 5600X? That's what it's price dictates it should do.
It's not a bad CPU, it's just badly priced. At $400 it would be far more inline with what it offers.

It is priced similarly as 3800X was, as it was a "luxury version" od 3700X.

The real problem here is that 5700X does not exist yet. The question is, if AMD in this situation will ever release lower models, or if the role of these models will be played by last gen CPUs.

 

[Thibsie]

I dunno if the 5800x is a badly priced or if the 5900x is extremely well priced.

It doesn't change the outcome though.

 

[BFG10K]

As expected there's virtually no change from the new microcode. This is still another Bulldozer/Prescott compared to Ryzen.

What's even more astonishing is back in 2016 AMD's lowest market cap was ~$2B while Intel's was ~$140B. In just 5 years AMD has overtaken Intel in performance despite the colossal market cap deficit, and by extension, R&D budget and overall resources.

Nothing short of complete incompetence on Intel's part caused this. This is the result of "Intel competing with themselves", AKA monopoly.

 

[scineram]

Market cap is just casino coins. Has nothing to do with company operations.

 

[Dave2150]

As expected there's virtually no change from the new microcode. This is still another Bulldozer/Prescott compared to Ryzen.

What's even more astonishing is back in 2016 AMD's lowest market cap was ~$2B while Intel's was ~$140B. In just 5 years AMD has overtaken Intel in performance despite the colossal market cap deficit, and by extension, R&D budget and overall resources.

Nothing short of complete incompetence on Intel's part caused this. This is the result of "Intel competing with themselves", AKA monopoly.

Are you aware that 11th gen beats Ryzen in some benchmarks, ties in others and loses in some while using more power?

It's in no way similar to Bulldozer, are you aware Bulldozer was 30-50% slower than Sandy Bridge in almost all tasks across the board, while using drastically more power?

 

[Asterox]

Does the 5800X perform 50% better in anything than the 5600X? That's what it's price dictates it should do.

It's not a bad CPU, it's just badly priced. At $400 it would be far more inline with what it offers.

Put things in perspective. Factors have converged in such a way to create one of the largest shortages of technology products in immediate recollection. Yet somehow that 5800X is always in stock. I think that speaks plenty to its value as priced.

Only facts or figures, but only Mindfactory is giving this "tiny details".R5 5600X sold 15 000+ vs R7 5800X sold 13 000+.The difference is not significant, or in short very good sales for both models.

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8x 3.80GHz So.AM4 WOF - Sockel AM4 | Mindfactory.de

AMD Desktop von AMD | AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8x 3.80GHz So.AM4 WOF :: Lagernd :: über 13.130 verkauft :: 24 Jahre Kompetenz | Hier bestellen

www.mindfactory.de

AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6x 3.70GHz So.AM4 BOX - Sockel AM4 | Mindfactory.de

AMD Desktop von AMD | AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6x 3.70GHz So.AM4 BOX :: Lagernd :: über 15.500 verkauft :: 24 Jahre Kompetenz | Hier bestellen

www.mindfactory.de

 

[Mopetar]

Only facts or figures, but only Mindfactory is giving this "tiny details".R5 5600X sold 15 000+ vs R7 5800X sold 13 000+.The difference is not significant, or in short very good sales for both models.

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8x 3.80GHz So.AM4 WOF - Sockel AM4 | Mindfactory.de

AMD Desktop von AMD | AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8x 3.80GHz So.AM4 WOF :: Lagernd :: über 13.130 verkauft :: 24 Jahre Kompetenz | Hier bestellen

www.mindfactory.de

AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6x 3.70GHz So.AM4 BOX - Sockel AM4 | Mindfactory.de

AMD Desktop von AMD | AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6x 3.70GHz So.AM4 BOX :: Lagernd :: über 15.500 verkauft :: 24 Jahre Kompetenz | Hier bestellen

www.mindfactory.de

The 5800X sells because it's often the only Zen 3 CPU in stock. Everything else is selling out first which is an indication that the 5800X is the last pick. If there were more 5600X, 5900X, or 5950X CPUs there would be fewer 5800X being sold. If you go back and look at when they came out there were a lot of posters here that said they wanted a 5900X, but ended up settling for a 5800X.

 

[Makaveli]

The 5800X sells because it's often the only Zen 3 CPU in stock. Everything else is selling out first which is an indication that the 5800X is the last pick. If there were more 5600X, 5900X, or 5950X CPUs there would be fewer 5800X being sold. If you go back and look at when they came out there were a lot of posters here that said they wanted a 5900X, but ended up settling for a 5800X.

Availability and price. I was able to grab my 5800X for MSRP in Jan. the 5900x and 5950X still aren't in stock and not even close to MSRP. And coming from a 3800X if the 5600X was only in stock I wouldn't have bought it as I had no interest in going down in core count.

Alot of these dicussions I notice people overlook those already on AM4 platforms. Sold the 3800X for $400 and paid $650 CAD for the 5800X so cost to me only $250 after everything is said and done.

 

[dullard]

There are a lot of people who do Photoshop work on their laptops, so having those kind of optimizations makes a big difference. Adobe just released a native version for Apple's M1 Macs that's up to 50% faster than the old x86 notebooks from Apple. Don't underestimate the importance of having that kind of performance in the laptop market.

While that is true, the laptop chips so far with AVX-512 are mostly in ultra-portable category. There just isn't the power available or heat spreading capability to really use AVX-512 in existing laptops well. When higher power Tiger Lake is released, then you have a point.