I will never take my car to a shop again...

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: herm0016
always get a quote in writing. thats my number one rule for getting work done at a shop. i have never gotten burned.

Thats definitely something I will have to apply in the future if I ever need to take my car in for repairs that I cannot do.

-Kevin

Dude...this thread shouldn't even exist. I don't understand why you didn't ask for a full quote before saying "replace the CAT". That's your bad.

Get a full quote next time bud, that way there won't be any surprises.

Well naive is one reason. I knew the price of cats and I took a guess on 30 minutes of labor with garage fee and tax and gave it a little leeway. See-- naive in its finest.

On a separate note though. Should I be worried that I have 2 downstream sensors at all? If not, they DID say my downstream sensor was causing problems, if they replaced the upstream one, despite the car running fairly well, wouldn't the downstream one still be problematic??

-Kevin

 

[alkemyst]

sounds like someone got their first lesson in both how easy it is to do certain jobs and also how parts can be found a lot cheaper elsewhere.

1) saying since your OBDII reader is at home yet you manage to get to an Advance Auto that would have been more than happy to tell you what they could find out was wrong with your car.

Also most of the O2's you find at an auto parts store need to be spliced in...

The shop is going to bill in 1 hour increments usually so for a cat and O2 you are looking at two hours more than likely, about $180-250 here.

OEM Cats are up there....$300+ easily (you can take one to a scrap yard and get $75 usually).

Going aftermarket is usually good for better flow and cheaper (like $100)...you will need to weld flanges on (easy).

I did headers back on a 10 year old car in an hour...except needing to helicoil one exhaust stud that just broke off removing the nut. Sucked and why garages charge what they do.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
sounds like someone got their first lesson in both how easy it is to do certain jobs and also how parts can be found a lot cheaper elsewhere.

1) saying since your OBDII reader is at home yet you manage to get to an Advance Auto that would have been more than happy to tell you what they could find out was wrong with your car.

Also most of the O2's you find at an auto parts store need to be spliced in...

The shop is going to bill in 1 hour increments usually so for a cat and O2 you are looking at two hours more than likely, about $180-250 here.

OEM Cats are up there....$300+ easily (you can take one to a scrap yard and get $75 usually).

Going aftermarket is usually good for better flow and cheaper (like $100)...you will need to weld flanges on (easy).

I did headers back on a 10 year old car in an hour...except needing to helicoil one exhaust stud that just broke off removing the nut. Sucked and why garages charge what they do.

These O2 sensors didn't need to be spliced on for this particular model-- though, I know most cars do require that.

I should have gotten mad at them for not fighting with the auto parts store where I requested them to get a Remanufactured Cat when they went and got a brand new OEM cat. Instead I just let it happen...

As for the exhaust, are you sure you weld those phalanges on? From everything I have looked up, you merely put them on the ends of the cat (There is a little lip) and then the pressure of the bolts keeps that phalanges from moving around between the cat and the Exhaust Line.

-Kevin

 

[herm0016]

phalanges==flanges!!!!111oneone

 

[mooseracing]

This post is hilarious.

sucks you didn't know about labor rates, if it's a 10 min job but the book calls for 1hr, you get charged teh hour. It's the only way to keep prices from getting out of control.

You said it only took 20 mins to replace your cat, I'm assuming this is a newer vehicle then? Any vehicle at leat over hear in the saltbelt, after a couple years the cat is going to have need a torch to cut the bolts out or off.

I also found it funny you said 20-30 mins for doign the plugs and cats. It takes time to blow out and clean around all the plugs, back them off easily so you don't rip the threads (if you have alum heads), read the plugs, gap them, coat them with antisieze, make sure the holes are all cleaned off again and tq them to spec. Then coat the tops with Dielectric grease and hook everything back up. To me that is an easy 15 mins doing it properly.


Again this is hilairous, I dont know how people can not afford to work on their own cars.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: mooseracing
This post is hilarious.

sucks you didn't know about labor rates, if it's a 10 min job but the book calls for 1hr, you get charged teh hour. It's the only way to keep prices from getting out of control.

You said it only took 20 mins to replace your cat, I'm assuming this is a newer vehicle then? Any vehicle at leat over hear in the saltbelt, after a couple years the cat is going to have need a torch to cut the bolts out or off.

I also found it funny you said 20-30 mins for doign the plugs and cats. It takes time to blow out and clean around all the plugs, back them off easily so you don't rip the threads (if you have alum heads), read the plugs, gap them, coat them with antisieze, make sure the holes are all cleaned off again and tq them to spec. Then coat the tops with Dielectric grease and hook everything back up. To me that is an easy 15 mins doing it properly.


Again this is hilairous, I dont know how people can not afford to work on their own cars.

I couldn't work on the car because:
A. I was at college, kinda sketchy taking an exhaust system apart in a parking lot
B. It was right in the middle of Exam week. School was more important.

As for the Cat. Well I replaced it myself this past summer so the bolts should be "fairly" easy to get off. I just replaced it with a cat that was sold to me defective. It just took a while for it to die all the way.

As for the plugs, they were just below the iridium tipped plugs so they still needed to be gapped. Takes me about 5 minutes to gap 4 spark plugs. As for getting them out, I had taken them out and inspected them last summer as well to make sure they weren't firing too hot or anything-- took no time at all to get a socket extension with a Spark Plug extension and pull one out.

-Kevin

 

[alkemyst]

If the cat wasn't ended in just bare pipe then you follow the instructions with it.

if it has flanges already on it, it's more OEM than universal.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I would think they use local cookies. One shows a list of Cats ranging from $90-$209. The next shows a Walker Cat that I would have bought for $147. The final one shows a Maramount Cat for $209 that was the most expensive available from Advance.

-Kevin

So you expect them to sell you the converter for what they paid for it?

My mechanic does, he only charges for labor.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: mooseracing
This post is hilarious.

sucks you didn't know about labor rates, if it's a 10 min job but the book calls for 1hr, you get charged teh hour. It's the only way to keep prices from getting out of control.

You said it only took 20 mins to replace your cat, I'm assuming this is a newer vehicle then? Any vehicle at leat over hear in the saltbelt, after a couple years the cat is going to have need a torch to cut the bolts out or off.

I also found it funny you said 20-30 mins for doign the plugs and cats. It takes time to blow out and clean around all the plugs, back them off easily so you don't rip the threads (if you have alum heads), read the plugs, gap them, coat them with antisieze, make sure the holes are all cleaned off again and tq them to spec. Then coat the tops with Dielectric grease and hook everything back up. To me that is an easy 15 mins doing it properly.


Again this is hilairous, I dont know how people can not afford to work on their own cars.

Also IF it is a newer vehicle make sure you weren't covered under the emissions warranty...shops around here are constantly screwed mostly old folks out of warranty repairs they charge full price for and then claim.

I think it's 10years / 100k miles on the cat convertor.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: mooseracing
This post is hilarious.

sucks you didn't know about labor rates, if it's a 10 min job but the book calls for 1hr, you get charged teh hour. It's the only way to keep prices from getting out of control.

You said it only took 20 mins to replace your cat, I'm assuming this is a newer vehicle then? Any vehicle at leat over hear in the saltbelt, after a couple years the cat is going to have need a torch to cut the bolts out or off.

I also found it funny you said 20-30 mins for doign the plugs and cats. It takes time to blow out and clean around all the plugs, back them off easily so you don't rip the threads (if you have alum heads), read the plugs, gap them, coat them with antisieze, make sure the holes are all cleaned off again and tq them to spec. Then coat the tops with Dielectric grease and hook everything back up. To me that is an easy 15 mins doing it properly.


Again this is hilairous, I dont know how people can not afford to work on their own cars.

Also IF it is a newer vehicle make sure you weren't covered under the emissions warranty...shops around here are constantly screwed mostly old folks out of warranty repairs they charge full price for and then claim.

I think it's 10years / 100k miles on the cat convertor.

Sorry, I should have listed this earlier. It is a 1995 Toyota Tacoma 2.7L I4 Regular Cab (145K Miles). We bought it off of a neighbor down the road so no warranty (He bought it from someone else).

Edit: There were no instructions. It was an OEM Type Cat, not universal. You have the Cat and then it has a lip on either side where you slide the flanges on. After that you use 4 bolts, 4 washers, and 4 nuts to secure it to the exhaust line. The flanges are on a part of the Cat so they don't fall and the pressure of the bolts keeps them from moving horizontally.

-Kevin

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
POS? Walker Cats are the only thing NAPA carries!! I definitely don't see these as cheapo. Not only that they are no generic cats if you look at the link. Some are generic fit, but the others are direct fit bolt on Catalytic Converters for Toyota Tacomas. I don't know what, in your mind, constitutes a good Cat, but these are absolutely fine.

Almost that much already???? The Cat I would be is $148. The most expensive is $209. They charged me OVER $300 for the part. What part about that is ALMOST?

-Kevin

I swear this kid has never seen a markup before.

Medical companies charging $80 for a $0.03 screw for reconstructive surgery, THAT'S a markup. A 50% price increase is nuthin'. That's why I don't take my car to the shop. But this is HARDLY a surprising or unexpected markup...

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I couldn't work on the car because:
A. I was at college, kinda sketchy taking an exhaust system apart in a parking lot
B. It was right in the middle of Exam week. School was more important.

Whatever. I've BEEN to college. Done lots of work in parking lots, friends' garages, etc.

And if you were actually studying all exam week, you're the only college student in the history of the world that did.

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

What makes you say that Shabby?

Bolt on Cat and Bolt on O2 sensors are real components man. I have a 1995 Toyota Tacoma. 4 bolts and 2 Phalanges for the Cat, and 2 bolts/O2 sensor.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove-- because each of those points show that I know what I am talking about Mechanically, just that I am naive when it comes to dealing with people.

-Kevin

My point was that if you knew so much why didnt you simply replace everything your self especially when everything is a simple bolt on, would of saved your self a shit load of money.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
POS? Walker Cats are the only thing NAPA carries!! I definitely don't see these as cheapo. Not only that they are no generic cats if you look at the link. Some are generic fit, but the others are direct fit bolt on Catalytic Converters for Toyota Tacomas. I don't know what, in your mind, constitutes a good Cat, but these are absolutely fine.

Almost that much already???? The Cat I would be is $148. The most expensive is $209. They charged me OVER $300 for the part. What part about that is ALMOST?

-Kevin

I swear this kid has never seen a markup before.

Medical companies charging $80 for a $0.03 screw for reconstructive surgery, THAT'S a markup. A 50% price increase is nuthin'. That's why I don't take my car to the shop. But this is HARDLY a surprising or unexpected markup...

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I couldn't work on the car because:
A. I was at college, kinda sketchy taking an exhaust system apart in a parking lot
B. It was right in the middle of Exam week. School was more important.

Whatever. I've BEEN to college. Done lots of work in parking lots, friends' garages, etc.

And if you were actually studying all exam week, you're the only college student in the history of the world that did.

First off, I'm not a kid. I'm 20 years old and am more than capable of taking care of myself. As for reconstructive surgery-- I'm very certain there is a huge difference considering you are slicing a human open in that instance.

Ok, I'm at Virginia Tech. Removing exhaust parts in the middle of the parking lot seemed kind of sketch to me.

As for exams, no I didn't study all week every hour. But with that and my other responsibilities as an RA, not mention those as a friend, I simply didn't have time.

-Kevin

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
POS? Walker Cats are the only thing NAPA carries!! I definitely don't see these as cheapo. Not only that they are no generic cats if you look at the link. Some are generic fit, but the others are direct fit bolt on Catalytic Converters for Toyota Tacomas. I don't know what, in your mind, constitutes a good Cat, but these are absolutely fine.

Almost that much already???? The Cat I would be is $148. The most expensive is $209. They charged me OVER $300 for the part. What part about that is ALMOST?

-Kevin

I swear this kid has never seen a markup before.

Medical companies charging $80 for a $0.03 screw for reconstructive surgery, THAT'S a markup. A 50% price increase is nuthin'. That's why I don't take my car to the shop. But this is HARDLY a surprising or unexpected markup...

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I couldn't work on the car because:
A. I was at college, kinda sketchy taking an exhaust system apart in a parking lot
B. It was right in the middle of Exam week. School was more important.

Whatever. I've BEEN to college. Done lots of work in parking lots, friends' garages, etc.

And if you were actually studying all exam week, you're the only college student in the history of the world that did.

First off, I'm not a kid. I'm 20 years old and am more than capable of taking care of myself. As for reconstructive surgery-- I'm very certain there is a huge difference considering you are slicing a human open in that instance.

Ok, I'm at Virginia Tech. Removing exhaust parts in the middle of the parking lot seemed kind of sketch to me.

As for exams, no I didn't study all week every hour. But with that and my other responsibilities as an RA, not mention those as a friend, I simply didn't have time.

-Kevin

I think you expressed the very reasons jagec is toying with you.

parking lots can work, but in any busy college type lot it's forbidden and if not dangerous (drunk/drugged up person coming home).

Dude probably went to college while living at home and probably still lives at home.

 

[marincounty]

WTF? Mechanics are charging $100 per hour here (Northern Calif.) and they are using their book to charge you? They aren't even doing an hour's work for their $100?
This BS has got to stop. You mechanics have no shame.

The plumber is even worse, $120 per hour.

Why the hell did I even bother going to college? OP may want to reconsider his career choice.

Luckily, my mechanic is a very honest guy who only charges his actual time.

Everyone now thinks they should be paid like a neurosurgeon, no wonder dollars are like toilet paper.

End of rant.

 

[tfinch2]

This thread is full of lulz. You say you know about mechanics, but you didn't replace the O2 sensor before the cat? You can rent the O2 sensor socket for free from Auto Zone and change that puppy out in about an hour.

I don't care if the cat is bolt-on, 99% of the time, exhaust work is a pain in the ass. Those nuts/bolts are usually pretty fucking tight because of the heat/rust they endure.

I replaced the serpentine belt (had to remove the motor mount WTF) and battery/alternator on my fiancee's Saturn SC1 during finals week a few weeks ago and that took about 6-7 hours for a "simple routine job".

EDIT: Your time expectations for repair are unrealistic. You must be careful and concise when working on a car. When you rush you more than likely fuck up.

EDIT2: You replaced the cat 9 months ago, and now you're replacing it again?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: marincounty
WTF? Mechanics are charging $100 per hour here (Northern Calif.) and they are using their book to charge you? They aren't even doing an hour's work for their $100?
This BS has got to stop. You mechanics have no shame.

The plumber is even worse, $120 per hour.

Why the hell did I even bother going to college? OP may want to reconsider his career choice.

Luckily, my mechanic is a very honest guy who only charges his actual time.

Everyone now thinks they should be paid like a neurosurgeon, no wonder dollars are like toilet paper.

End of rant.

So when your mechanic breaks something, is it coming out of his pocket or yours?

I am thinking you are going to say his since it's clear your mechanic is in the job for charity and only covering his costs having to beg on street corners on the way home for food.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: marincounty
WTF? Mechanics are charging $100 per hour here (Northern Calif.) and they are using their book to charge you? They aren't even doing an hour's work for their $100?
This BS has got to stop. You mechanics have no shame.

The plumber is even worse, $120 per hour.

Why the hell did I even bother going to college? OP may want to reconsider his career choice.

Luckily, my mechanic is a very honest guy who only charges his actual time.

Everyone now thinks they should be paid like a neurosurgeon, no wonder dollars are like toilet paper.

End of rant.

"Your" mechanic...is he a shop owner, backyard jackleg, or does he work for a shop?

OP got his car fixed at a shop. Shops, stores, offices, etc...have something called OVERHEAD.

The mechanic that fixed his car probably made 18-22 bucks per hour for doing the job.

If you can find someone that has no overhead and can get by with only charging his actual time spent, AND knows what he's doing, more power to you. Very unlikely there are many of those folks around.

No, shops aren't charging like surgeons do......mechanics don't get 500 bucks for a band aid like hospitals do.

Furthermore, why is it that if a mechanic ever touches your car, everything that goes wrong with it afterwards is somehow his fault? And you expect him to fix it for free?

Yet a doctor charges you every single time you come in. They write you a prescription and say "come back in a week if you're not better". So when you come back, you gladly bend over and pay again for another office visit, even though you already paid him to diagnose you condition once.
If you're going to use the doctor for comparison, why don't you hold them to the same standards? They make far more money and have far more education than a lowly mechanic that you think should get things right the first time, every time, or he's an idiot.

 

[redgtxdi]

To the OP.........a few things...........

#1.) Don't sweat the dillweeds here. Half of 'em shooting sh!t out their mouths probably haven't done more than an oil change in their lives. (Meglamania, etc.)
😉

#2.) I'd say you weren't shorted horribly. Looks like they went their own route on the cat ($300 ain't ridiculous, but I hear ya'). The spark plug/O2 sensor sounds like 2 hours vs. the 1 hr they SHOULD have charged you.........and, yes....they would have ripped you a new one if you hadn't bought the O2 sensor and plugs yourself. (Lastly, putting the downstream O2 sensor up top, was pretty bad for them)

#3.) I'd go back and complain. Let them know that at the very least you want an hour's labor knocked off on the plug/O2 sensor install. (And advise them that they need to remedy the O2 sensor situation)

#4.) Is your car fixed yet???

 

[thomsbrain]

Look, if you can't or won't do the work yourself on something complicated, it is just going to cost a lot to get it done. It doesn't matter if it is cars, computer, plumbing, whatever. Mechanics get paid to be experts (or at least you hope they are!), and to do the grimy, confusing work that most people don't want to bother with. It's no different than charging $75/hour to defrag someone's hard drive and install their RAM for them. You charge them a $50 markup on the RAM, you charge them for two hours of labor when it only took 10 minutes, and people will pay it. They won't be happy about "how much" it cost, but that fact is that they would still rather pay you than do it themselves. That's how these things work. So if you're not happy paying mechanic prices for mechanic work, then just do it yourself. If you can't do it because you don't have room or whatever, then tough shit, you're gonna have to pay. There's no use getting bent out of shape about it because that's how these industries work. The price of the service is set to match the demand.

I'm sure there are other mechanics for you to try if you really feel this particular mechanic did something out of the ordinary.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I would think they use local cookies. One shows a list of Cats ranging from $90-$209. The next shows a Walker Cat that I would have bought for $147. The final one shows a Maramount Cat for $209 that was the most expensive available from Advance.

-Kevin

So you expect them to sell you the converter for what they paid for it?

My mechanic does, he only charges for labor.

And everyone else too?

 

[dbk]

Which one did you go to? Campus Exxon? Auto Repair Specialists?

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: jagec
Whatever. I've BEEN to college. Done lots of work in parking lots, friends' garages, etc.

And if you were actually studying all exam week, you're the only college student in the history of the world that did.

I had my maintence mgr come up to me once when the gasket blew out for the oil filter mounting block. After I lsitened to his non-sense I told him I can either pay you for rent or I can pay someone to fix the car. That took care of the problem.

I think as long as you aren't dissabemling a car or motor in the lot they won't bother you.

 

[StageLeft]

Shops are great. I was quoted over $300 to replace 6 ignition coils on a maxima. My guess is the book says .5 per coil and 6x.5 = 3. Of course, in reality, once you've cracked the hood, taken off the shield, and replaced one, the other five take almost no time, and that is why I did it, never having done it before, in about 30 minutes. Saved "three hours" professional labor. It's obscene.

I've done two O2 sensors. Easiest would be 20 minutes or so, but some of them can take more time to get at. If it's at the back underneath the car and easily accessed, it's a simple job.

I love how advance auto parts will read an OBDII for free but a shop will charge .5-1 hour labor.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: marincounty
WTF? Mechanics are charging $100 per hour here (Northern Calif.) and they are using their book to charge you? They aren't even doing an hour's work for their $100?
This BS has got to stop. You mechanics have no shame.

The plumber is even worse, $120 per hour.

Why the hell did I even bother going to college? OP may want to reconsider his career choice.

Luckily, my mechanic is a very honest guy who only charges his actual time.

Everyone now thinks they should be paid like a neurosurgeon, no wonder dollars are like toilet paper.

End of rant.

"Your" mechanic...is he a shop owner, backyard jackleg, or does he work for a shop?

OP got his car fixed at a shop. Shops, stores, offices, etc...have something called OVERHEAD.

The mechanic that fixed his car probably made 18-22 bucks per hour for doing the job.

If you can find someone that has no overhead and can get by with only charging his actual time spent, AND knows what he's doing, more power to you. Very unlikely there are many of those folks around.

No, shops aren't charging like surgeons do......mechanics don't get 500 bucks for a band aid like hospitals do.

Furthermore, why is it that if a mechanic ever touches your car, everything that goes wrong with it afterwards is somehow his fault? And you expect him to fix it for free?

Yet a doctor charges you every single time you come in. They write you a prescription and say "come back in a week if you're not better". So when you come back, you gladly bend over and pay again for another office visit, even though you already paid him to diagnose you condition once.
If you're going to use the doctor for comparison, why don't you hold them to the same standards? They make far more money and have far more education than a lowly mechanic that you think should get things right the first time, every time, or he's an idiot.

Ha ha. My mechanic actually owns his own shop, and has for over 20 years. And as a matter of fact he just bought a (large) building to house his shop for something like a million dollars. And he owns his own home in a nice neigborhood in Marin.

It seems that actually charging for work done, and not trying to gouge customers has led to profits and an expanding base of customers.

I know for a fact that he makes over a $100k per year and has for many years.

And the doctors at my hmo make in the range of $150-200k, not $500 per hour.