I Want aBetter Computer

[Liquor Dealer]

A couple of years ago I built my first computer. It's probably a wonder that it worked at all because I have very little expertise. It is a P4 2.53 on an Intel D845GBV board. I think I have enough power supply (Antec True Power 430 W) to run more than I currently have. I have 1 gig of ram (generic), and a Maxtor 7200 80G HD. I would like to have more computer than I have. I have lurked on these boards for a long time, but have been afraid of sounding like a total idiot if I asked something like this - but here goes - What all do I need to change, I don't have much of a video card - currently an ATI and have very poor quality sound. I don't plan to overclock whatever I come up with - just want something I don't have to wait on half of the time when I'm surfing, or wasting money on E-Bay.

(P.S. I also attempt to host a website on this computer)

Suggestions???

MB?
CPU?
Memory?
Video and Sound?

I appreciate any help I can get - Thanks

 

[FlyingPenguin]

A P4 2.53Ghz with 1Gb is no slouch, unless you have a real crappy motherboard.

What specific model of ATI video card do you have?

What are you using for sound? Onboard sound? If so what chipset (C-Media, AC97, etc - should say in Device Manager)?

What is it you consider "poor" about your sound? Unless you're fanatic any $15 sound card made in the last 3 years will sound just fine for listening to music and playing games.

It would help if you describe what applications you want to run. Are you mostly concerned about gaming? If so what kind of games do you play or want to play? You have plenty of power for any regular desktop apps.

If improving you gaming performance is what you're concerned about, then just upgrading your video card may be all you need. Without breaking the bank, an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro would give you a nice gaming experience with all the latest games. If you can spare the money, get a Radeon x800 Pro.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Whats your budget?

 

[Corn Nog]

get a refurbed 9700 pro or 9800 pro on newegg.com, or check out ebay. everything else in ur system is pretty decent

 

[WdnUlik2no]

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
A couple of years ago I built my first computer. It's probably a wonder that it worked at all because I have very little expertise. It is a P4 2.53 on an Intel D845GBV board. I think I have enough power supply (Antec True Power 430 W) to run more than I currently have. I have 1 gig of ram (generic), and a Maxtor 7200 80G HD. I would like to have more computer than I have. I have lurked on these boards for a long time, but have been afraid of sounding like a total idiot if I asked something like this - but here goes - What all do I need to change, I don't have much of a video card - currently an ATI and have very poor quality sound. I don't plan to overclock whatever I come up with - just want something I don't have to wait on half of the time when I'm surfing, or wasting money on E-Bay.

(P.S. I also attempt to host a website on this computer)

Suggestions???

MB?
CPU?
Memory?
Video and Sound?

I appreciate any help I can get - Thanks

Actually I got a 9800 Pro on Ebay for very cheap, brand new in the box even much cheaper than Newegg. I also suggest upgrading your sound card to sound blaster Audigy 2, especially if your currently using an on board sound card. Those tend to suck. Other than that your system seems pretty good.

 

[boran]

I feel your pain, i'm in a similar situation, I've got a P4 2400, 1 GB mem a Ti4400 and a bunch of IDE HD's, I'll tell yoy what I have planned, along with the total price:
I intend to get an athlon 3500 (preferrably 90µ)
1 GB mem
a 250 GB HD (SATA)
Good sli mobo deluxe edition (Gigabyte or Asus I'm not sure yet)
6800GT
Antec 480 Watt PSU
New Case (Lian-Li PC-V2000)

Which comes out at 1600 Euros (would be around $1400 methinks, prices in the US are muuuuch lower)

it all depends on how much you can recycle (which is my Audigy and my optical drives in my case) and what you cannot (my IDE drives, my GFX card)

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Seriously, you guys with the P4 2.4 systems - all you need is a 9800 Pro or better and you're rocking. Should run any modern game silky smooth.

My LAN party rig is an AMD 2200 with a Radeon 9800 Pro and I can play anything (HL2, CS: S, Battlefield 1942, UT2004, Doom3, SWAT 4) no problem with it. Only difference in performance between that rig an my main workstation (AMD 3200 with Radeon x800) is that I can bump up the resolution higher.

A 9800 Pro Retail is not all that expensive - I just priced one on NewEgg for $124 shipped. I recommend ATI or Saphire: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102477

I'm no fan of refurbs.

Unless you're a real gaiming fanatic that MUST play at 1600x1200 with FSAA, I'd recommend upgrading your video cards and save your money until later in the year when the next major game and hardware cycle kicks in.

By Christmas we'll probably start seeing games that actually make use of 64-bit processors and THAT will be the time for the next big upgrade.

 

[Liquor Dealer]

 

[Liquor Dealer]

Originally posted by: FlyingPenguin
A P4 2.53Ghz with 1Gb is no slouch, unless you have a real crappy motherboard.

What specific model of ATI video card do you have?

What are you using for sound? Onboard sound? If so what chipset (C-Media, AC97, etc - should say in Device Manager)?

What is it you consider "poor" about your sound? Unless you're fanatic any $15 sound card made in the last 3 years will sound just fine for listening to music and playing games.

It would help if you describe what applications you want to run. Are you mostly concerned about gaming? If so what kind of games do you play or want to play? You have plenty of power for any regular desktop apps.

If improving you gaming performance is what you're concerned about, then just upgrading your video card may be all you need. Without breaking the bank, an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro would give you a nice gaming experience with all the latest games. If you can spare the money, get a Radeon x800 Pro.

***********************

I didn't give nearly enough information - sorry about that.

The Video card is a Radeon 9000 series AGP 128 MB
The sound card is an ATI Santa Cruz Turtle Bay? Never have gotten it to work and am now using just the onboard sound.

As to what I use the computer for - mostly graphics and video.

Most of the information I am getting seems to suggest getting a 9800 Pro.

Let me now express my lack of knowledge.
The 9800 Pro is AGP - Isn't AGP being phased out on newer boards?
Also - How much difference does the manufacturer make on this card - I have noticed on Newegg that there is quite a bit of difference in price between the card made by Sapphire and a genuine ATI made card.

As to my budget - I'm tired of spending money on things that don't live up to expectation. I'm very impatient and don't like to wait on the computer to decide to do something. My budget isn't great but I do want more that what I currently have.

Is my current case adequate ? Antec PERFORMANCE TX SOHO File Server Case
430 W True Power PS

 

[Corn Nog]

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer

Originally posted by: FlyingPenguin
A P4 2.53Ghz with 1Gb is no slouch, unless you have a real crappy motherboard.

What specific model of ATI video card do you have?

What are you using for sound? Onboard sound? If so what chipset (C-Media, AC97, etc - should say in Device Manager)?

What is it you consider "poor" about your sound? Unless you're fanatic any $15 sound card made in the last 3 years will sound just fine for listening to music and playing games.

It would help if you describe what applications you want to run. Are you mostly concerned about gaming? If so what kind of games do you play or want to play? You have plenty of power for any regular desktop apps.

If improving you gaming performance is what you're concerned about, then just upgrading your video card may be all you need. Without breaking the bank, an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro would give you a nice gaming experience with all the latest games. If you can spare the money, get a Radeon x800 Pro.

***********************

I didn't give nearly enough information - sorry about that.

The Video card is a Radeon 9000 series AGP 128 MB
The sound card is an ATI Santa Cruz Turtle Bay? Never have gotten it to work and am now using just the onboard sound.

As to what I use the computer for - mostly graphics and video.

Most of the information I am getting seems to suggest getting a 9800 Pro.

Let me now express my lack of knowledge.
The 9800 Pro is AGP - Isn't AGP being phased out on newer boards?
Also - How much difference does the manufacturer make on this card - I have noticed on Newegg that there is quite a bit of difference in price between the card made by Sapphire and a genuine ATI made card.

As to my budget - I'm tired of spending money on things that don't live up to expectation. I'm very impatient and don't like to wait on the computer to decide to do something. My budget isn't great but I do want more that what I currently have.

Is my current case adequate ? Antec PERFORMANCE TX SOHO File Server Case
430 W True Power PS

ati doesn't make sound cards....anyways the turtle beach cards are actually quite nice for how old they are(except in games, but its still much better than integrated), try a little bit harder to get it working and you'll have a nice sound card for free.

what do you mean by "graphics and video"? do you play graphics intensive games, edit videos, or do video encoding? what programs specifically do you want the computer to run better?

get a refurb/used 9700 pro or 9800 pro on ebay or newegg...or get a new 9800 pro from newegg if you are squeemish about getting used cards. yes agp is being phased out, but it doesn't matter to you since you have an agp board. upgrading to pci-e is quite an expensive jump, wait till you're prepared to spend around 400 or more on an upgrade.

 

[Liquor Dealer]

By graphics and video I meant that I download a lot. I have taken the advice I've gotten so far and ordered a 9800 Pro and Soundblaster Audigy 2 card this evening from Newegg. I bought the 9800 Pro made by Sapphire - I hope there isn't a lot of difference between it and ATI

PS

Flying Penguin, the chip is a 82801DB/DBM/DA AC'97.

 

[Corn Nog]

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
By graphics and video I meant that I download a lot. I have taken the advice I've gotten so far and ordered a 9800 Pro and Soundblaster Audigy 2 card this evening from Newegg. I bought the 9800 Pro made by Sapphire - I hope there isn't a lot of difference between it and ATI

PS

Flying Penguin, the chip is a 82801DB/DBM/DA AC'97.

:thumbsup: on your purchase! if you're not going to use your radeon 9000 anymore sell it now while it's still valuable, and recover some of the money spent on this upgrade. as far as i know sapphire cards are just as good as the built by ati ones, one might overclock better than the other, but i don't recommend overclocking with the stock heatsinks (they're pretty small, and get reeally hot even at stock speeds)

overall your pc going to be a bit cpu limited as far as games go, but now you can run at higher resolutions with aa/af without much of a performance drop.

enjoy downloading a lot of graphics and video i guess lol

 

[Scrubber]

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
A couple of years ago I built my first computer. It's probably a wonder that it worked at all because I have very little expertise. It is a P4 2.53 on an Intel D845GBV board. I think I have enough power supply (Antec True Power 430 W) to run more than I currently have. I have 1 gig of ram (generic), and a Maxtor 7200 80G HD. I would like to have more computer than I have. I have lurked on these boards for a long time, but have been afraid of sounding like a total idiot if I asked something like this - but here goes - What all do I need to change, I don't have much of a video card - currently an ATI and have very poor quality sound. I don't plan to overclock whatever I come up with - just want something I don't have to wait on half of the time when I'm surfing, or wasting money on E-Bay.

(P.S. I also attempt to host a website on this computer)

Suggestions???

MB?
CPU?
Memory?
Video and Sound?

I appreciate any help I can get - Thanks

Hi Liquor,

Here's your: mobo and here are details of the CPUs it supports.

With all due respect to the other contributors here, my advice would be not to bother with upgrading your graphics card because as you can see from the specs, the mobo only supports AGP 4X. That means that your current card is being slowed down by the motherboard to the 4X clock speed which is only 275Mhz as opposed to 412Mhz or more for a AGP 8X card (which is what yours is capable of running at). This translates into far fewer frame rates per second in games, especially in MP games and you'll often experience stuttering because the GPU can't process the amount of data it's receiving fast enough.

So if you propose to upgrade with a new MBD, CPU etc., my first question is going to be, how much do you want to spend?

 

[biostud]

If you're going to buy a new video card get a 6600GT AGP. Then you'll be flying.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
I have lurked on these boards for a long time, but have been afraid of sounding like a total idiot if I asked something like this.

Asking for information in a decent manor as you do will never make you sound like an idiot.

 

[Liquor Dealer]

I appreciate the help you've all offered so far. I apparently jumped the gun and ordered the video and sound cards many have suggested without realizing what I have is incapable of utilitizing them. The following were shipped by Newegg this molrning:

SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY 2 VLE|CRTVE RT
VGA ATI|RADEON 9800PRO 128M 8X RTL

The question of budget keeps coming up and the only way I know to answer it at this point is whatever else I need to make this thing do what I want it to do. How much motherboard and CPU do I need? Someone above mention that it would cost $400 to upgrade - Can I do this and use the video and sound listed above or do I need to see about returning them?

I want to thank all of you for your patience and I hope the questions I'm asking aren't totally inane.

 

[FlyingPenguin]

By graphics and video I meant that I download a lot.

WHAT exactly does that mean? If you're not doing any gaming, the the 9800 really is an unnecessary upgrade from the 9000. Image quality should be about the same on the desktop - MAYBE a bit sharper.

I wouldn't worry too much about the mobo only being 4x AGP - ESPECIALLY if you're not a gamer.

 

[Bkay]

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
A couple of years ago I built my first computer. just want something I don't have to wait on half of the time when I'm surfing, or wasting money on E-Bay.

(P.S. I also attempt to host a website on this computer)

I appreciate any help I can get - Thanks

I haven't seen anyone ask yet what type of internet connection you have. If you are on dialup you could have the highest end machine money can buy and your still going to wait around surfing and shopping.

 

[Liquor Dealer]

My internet connection is DSL

I host a web site on this computer and I also do vinyl sign design (part time business) so this computer runs Flexiprint 7 Pro and a Roland printer/cutter.

 

[Scrubber]

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
I appreciate the help you've all offered so far. I apparently jumped the gun and ordered the video and sound cards many have suggested without realizing what I have is incapable of utilitizing them. The following were shipped by Newegg this molrning:

SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY 2 VLE|CRTVE RT
VGA ATI|RADEON 9800PRO 128M 8X RTL

The question of budget keeps coming up and the only way I know to answer it at this point is whatever else I need to make this thing do what I want it to do. How much motherboard and CPU do I need? Someone above mention that it would cost $400 to upgrade - Can I do this and use the video and sound listed above or do I need to see about returning them?

I want to thank all of you for your patience and I hope the questions I'm asking aren't totally inane.

OK, this is the best way to research it in my opinion. Go to here and check out all the mobos with either an Intel 865PE or an 845(PE) chipset. You'll see the designations after the names of each mobo. Read the merits of each board and make sure it supports AGP 8X, has a 533Mhz FSB (the latter is your max CPU speed) and that it's a socket 478.

When you've found a few that appeal to you, use this search engine to find prices for those particular models. You can click the "Shopping" tab to make it easier. The Biostar P4TSE for example can be had for $55 on your side of the pond.
But to be absolutely certain that a given board supports your CPU, drop a line to the online reseller and get them to confirm that.

 

[FlyingPenguin]

LIQUOR DEALER: I think, considering how far astray this thread has gotten, you REALLY need to explain WHY this system isn't adequate for you, and WHAT EXACTLY you're trying to improve. You've only given us the smallest of details and we have to pry them out of you.

Most of us assumed you were concerned about gaming since you mention a Radeon 9000 not being adequate. Maybe a bad assumption on our part.

If you're not gaming than the video card you have is more than adequate for the type of work you seem to be performing. Frankly, any $50 video card will do and the Radeo 9000 is a fine card for desktop work (just not a major gaming card).

If the desktop image doesn't look sharp on a Radeon 9000 it's either a defective card or the monitor. Are you using an LCD monitor and if so, are you using it's native resolution? Using lower resolutions will give you a blurry image. Have you tried another monitor?

- Are your apps running too slow?

- Is your internet performance too slow (you seem to be implying this in the original post now that I've re-read it)?

- WHY are you hosting a web server on the same computer you're using for a specialized printer/cutter?

- You do realize that by hosting your own web site on a DSL connection, it's going to cost you bandwidth (depending on how much traffic you're getting and how many hackers/robots/etc are scanning your site)? Are you taking proper security precautions - if you're not your computer could be compromised? MAY explain why your browsing is so slow. Have you disabled the web server to see if that's what's slowing down your browsing?

For all you know your web server may have been hacked and someone could be using it to distribute porn or send SPAM (I've seen it often enough). I have no idea how skilled you are at managing a web server. It's not something to be done lightly. It's usually for easier and less painful to get a cheap web server account.

- What are you using to run your web server? IIS? Apache? What OS are you running?

You started out complaining about the video card and the audio and it seemed to most of us you were implying you were unhappy with gaming performance.


I see nothing that you've mentioned so far that would indicate why you need to improve the sound quality. Most 2 - 3 year old system generally have a decent C-Media or AC97 onboard sound chip which is more than adequate unless you intend to use your computer as a Media PC or for studio editing.

 

[Scrubber]

I have to agree with Penguin on most of the points he makes. If you're not gaming, you don't need a high end system.
As for hosting a web server, you'll get a good deal over @ jaguarpc.com All the stuff listed there will cost you less then $80 p.a. and you won't have to worry about security.

 

[boran]

Originally posted by: Scrubber

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
[...]

Hi Liquor,

Here's your: mobo and here are details of the CPUs it supports.

With all due respect to the other contributors here, my advice would be not to bother with upgrading your graphics card because as you can see from the specs, the mobo only supports AGP 4X. That means that your current card is being slowed down by the motherboard to the 4X clock speed which is only 275Mhz as opposed to 412Mhz or more for a AGP 8X card (which is what yours is capable of running at). This translates into far fewer frame rates per second in games, especially in MP games and you'll often experience stuttering because the GPU can't process the amount of data it's receiving fast enough.

So if you propose to upgrade with a new MBD, CPU etc., my first question is going to be, how much do you want to spend?

Ehm sorry ?? since when does AGP speed (4x, 8x etc.) actually make a difference ? last time I checked difference between 4x and 8x was less than 0.5 % (practically zero if you take benchmark fluctuations into account)

 

[Liquor Dealer]

I've tried to come up with some type of "average" based upon what all of you have suggested. I took that average to Newegg and have ordered:

MB ASUS A8V DELUXE K8T800PRO RET
CPU AMD 64 |3700+ ATHLON 64 754 RT
SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY 2 VLE|CRTVE RT
VGA ATI|RADEON 9800PRO 128M 8X RTL

I really hope none of these are incompatable.
If I get this assembled without screwing up, will I then have what I started looking for in the beginning - "a better computer"?


My apologies to Flying Penguin and Scrubber - I hadn't noticed the last two replies - guess I'm not smart enough to see there was a second page. Thanks to all of you for your help and I hope this results in the computer I think I want, since many of you have implied it is more than what I actually need. Our website is hosted, I just try to keep it updated from this computer. I do design signs on this computer but transfer the actual cutting to an old HP that is connected to the cutter. Hope I have explained this better at this point. I did figure how to post my current computer - sorry I hadn't done it earlier.

 

[Scrubber]

Originally posted by: boran

Ehm sorry ?? since when does AGP speed (4x, 8x etc.) actually make a difference ? last time I checked difference between 4x and 8x was less than 0.5 % (practically zero if you take benchmark fluctuations into account)

Hi Boran,

As already mentioned in my post on that subject, the difference is in the clock speed, or to be a little more precise, the strobe rate. In 3D accelerated games, the speed at which the data can be processed is governed by the strobe rate. The slower the strobe rate, the less frames per second will be processed and it's that particular factor that decides whether the gaming experience will be a smooth one or not particularly in complex scenes like those in Far Cry for example. At AGP 4X, the strobe rate has a ceiling of 275Mhz whereas at 8X, the figure is 412Mhz or higher.