I Want aBetter Computer

[quakefiend420]

Originally posted by: Scrubber

Originally posted by: boran

Ehm sorry ?? since when does AGP speed (4x, 8x etc.) actually make a difference ? last time I checked difference between 4x and 8x was less than 0.5 % (practically zero if you take benchmark fluctuations into account)

Hi Boran,

As already mentioned in my post on that subject, the difference is in the clock speed, or to be a little more precise, the strobe rate. In 3D accelerated games, the speed at which the data can be processed is governed by the strobe rate. The slower the strobe rate, the less frames per second will be processed and it's that particular factor that decides whether the gaming experience will be a smooth one or not particularly in complex scenes like those in Far Cry for example. At AGP 4X, the strobe rate has a ceiling of 275Mhz whereas at 8X, the figure is 412Mhz or higher.

a minute ago you said the gpu would be getting more information than it could process...how is that so if the bus is slower?

know what you're talking about before you give someone advice :roll:

 

[Actaeon]

Scrubber, that is alot of misinformation.

The AGP spec has nothing to do with clockspeeds. It just specifies how much bandwidth is available from the card to the northbridge. Whether or not the card can take advantage of that much bandwidth is up to the GPU itself. I do not think there are any cards out there that would stress the AGP x4 bandwidth "limitations". Theortical AGP 1x bandwidth is 266mb/sec, AGP 8x is rated at 2.1gb/sec, because it offers 8x more bandwidth than the standardized AGP 1x spec.

Again, the ratings between each AGP spec has NOTHING to do with clock speeds, only theortical bandwidth available between the card and the northbridge.

 

[iwearnosocks]

Originally posted by: Scrubber

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
A couple of years ago I built my first computer. It's probably a wonder that it worked at all because I have very little expertise. It is a P4 2.53 on an Intel D845GBV board. I think I have enough power supply (Antec True Power 430 W) to run more than I currently have. I have 1 gig of ram (generic), and a Maxtor 7200 80G HD. I would like to have more computer than I have. I have lurked on these boards for a long time, but have been afraid of sounding like a total idiot if I asked something like this - but here goes - What all do I need to change, I don't have much of a video card - currently an ATI and have very poor quality sound. I don't plan to overclock whatever I come up with - just want something I don't have to wait on half of the time when I'm surfing, or wasting money on E-Bay.

(P.S. I also attempt to host a website on this computer)

Suggestions???

MB?
CPU?
Memory?
Video and Sound?

I appreciate any help I can get - Thanks

Hi Liquor,

Here's your: mobo and here are details of the CPUs it supports.

With all due respect to the other contributors here, my advice would be not to bother with upgrading your graphics card because as you can see from the specs, the mobo only supports AGP 4X. That means that your current card is being slowed down by the motherboard to the 4X clock speed which is only 275Mhz as opposed to 412Mhz or more for a AGP 8X card (which is what yours is capable of running at). This translates into far fewer frame rates per second in games, especially in MP games and you'll often experience stuttering because the GPU can't process the amount of data it's receiving fast enough.

So if you propose to upgrade with a new MBD, CPU etc., my first question is going to be, how much do you want to spend?

lol, thanks for the comedy scrubber, i posted it in the off topic forum and got a few laughs.
have you seen any benchmarks supporting your claim? it's nice that you're trying to help, but get informed before you give advice...

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: Scrubber

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
A couple of years ago I built my first computer. It's probably a wonder that it worked at all because I have very little expertise. It is a P4 2.53 on an Intel D845GBV board. I think I have enough power supply (Antec True Power 430 W) to run more than I currently have. I have 1 gig of ram (generic), and a Maxtor 7200 80G HD. I would like to have more computer than I have. I have lurked on these boards for a long time, but have been afraid of sounding like a total idiot if I asked something like this - but here goes - What all do I need to change, I don't have much of a video card - currently an ATI and have very poor quality sound. I don't plan to overclock whatever I come up with - just want something I don't have to wait on half of the time when I'm surfing, or wasting money on E-Bay.

(P.S. I also attempt to host a website on this computer)

Suggestions???

MB?
CPU?
Memory?
Video and Sound?

I appreciate any help I can get - Thanks

Hi Liquor,

Here's your: mobo and here are details of the CPUs it supports.

With all due respect to the other contributors here, my advice would be not to bother with upgrading your graphics card because as you can see from the specs, the mobo only supports AGP 4X. That means that your current card is being slowed down by the motherboard to the 4X clock speed which is only 275Mhz as opposed to 412Mhz or more for a AGP 8X card (which is what yours is capable of running at). This translates into far fewer frame rates per second in games, especially in MP games and you'll often experience stuttering because the GPU can't process the amount of data it's receiving fast enough.

So if you propose to upgrade with a new MBD, CPU etc., my first question is going to be, how much do you want to spend?

Wow just wow. You have absolutely no idea what the fvck you are talking about. I tried to find a nicer way to say it but.....

 

[iwearnosocks]

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
I've tried to come up with some type of "average" based upon what all of you have suggested. I took that average to Newegg and have ordered:

MB ASUS A8V DELUXE K8T800PRO RET
CPU AMD 64 |3700+ ATHLON 64 754 RT
SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY 2 VLE|CRTVE RT
VGA ATI|RADEON 9800PRO 128M 8X RTL

I really hope none of these are incompatable.
If I get this assembled without screwing up, will I then have what I started looking for in the beginning - "a better computer"?


My apologies to Flying Penguin and Scrubber - I hadn't noticed the last two replies - guess I'm not smart enough to see there was a second page. Thanks to all of you for your help and I hope this results in the computer I think I want, since many of you have implied it is more than what I actually need. Our website is hosted, I just try to keep it updated from this computer. I do design signs on this computer but transfer the actual cutting to an old HP that is connected to the cutter. Hope I have explained this better at this point. I did figure how to post my current computer - sorry I hadn't done it earlier.

jeez if i'd known you were prepared to lay down the cash for a whole new system i woulda said get a socket 939 mobo with pci express...and don't listen to scrubber, he's a seriously misinformed guy.

 

[iwearnosocks]

LOL @ SCRUBBER

 

[boran]

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
I've tried to come up with some type of "average" based upon what all of you have suggested. I took that average to Newegg and have ordered:

MB ASUS A8V DELUXE K8T800PRO RET
CPU AMD 64 |3700+ ATHLON 64 754 RT
SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY 2 VLE|CRTVE RT
VGA ATI|RADEON 9800PRO 128M 8X RTL

I really hope none of these are incompatable.
If I get this assembled without screwing up, will I then have what I started looking for in the beginning - "a better computer"?


My apologies to Flying Penguin and Scrubber - I hadn't noticed the last two replies - guess I'm not smart enough to see there was a second page. Thanks to all of you for your help and I hope this results in the computer I think I want, since many of you have implied it is more than what I actually need. Our website is hosted, I just try to keep it updated from this computer. I do design signs on this computer but transfer the actual cutting to an old HP that is connected to the cutter. Hope I have explained this better at this point. I did figure how to post my current computer - sorry I hadn't done it earlier.

You only have to realise that with that system your bottleneck lies with the 9800, if you were to get a 6600GT for your current system the bottleneck would lie with the CPU/Memory

just so that you know what to upgrade when you get some more cash

getting a PCIe system and a cheap PCI Express card now might be even better tho, you wont be as good off as with the 9800 but at least you'll have an upgrade path, I doubt a lot of new good AGP cards will be released and the ones that are will be more costly.

Also I think the 3500+ is better value for money than the 3700+ but that may vary where you are located (I'm in europe and the 3700 is about 1,5 times as expensive as the 3500 in my local shops)

 

[Scrubber]

To the advocates who seem to think that there's no difference between AGP 4X and AGP 8X, I suggest you all read this

 

[iwearnosocks]

Originally posted by: Scrubber
To the advocates who seem to think that there's no difference between AGP 4X and AGP 8X, I suggest you all read this

omg dude, you keep digging yourself deeper into stupidity by quoting a partisan marketing document, find an impartial source with ACTUAL REAL-WORLD benchmarks supporting it. in fact, if you have an 8x agp video card, bench it yourself at 8x and 4x, then tell us the difference.

were you the guy that posted this?

 

[Scrubber]

Liquor,

Instead of trying to guess what the best configuration will be for your needs, read Jarred Walton's article on mid to high-end systems which has just been published at Anandtech

 

[boran]

Originally posted by: Scrubber
To the advocates who seem to think that there's no difference between AGP 4X and AGP 8X, I suggest you all read this

You're one of those religious zealots arent you ?
You only see what you think I say, wheras as you would actually read what I said you would notice that I'm talking about performance, not marketing. suure AGP 8x has double the bandwidth but since the capacity of 4x is not even fully used the speed difference is actually, nada, nothing, nul, zero... not much in other words ... and now I suggest you read up some more info before you type more nonsense.

 

[iwearnosox]

Originally posted by: iwearnosocks
LOL @ SCRUBBER

Put your socks back on, you'll catch a cold.

 

[iwearnosocks]

Originally posted by: iwearnosox

Originally posted by: iwearnosocks
LOL @ SCRUBBER

Put your socks back on, you'll catch a cold.

OMFG PWNED!1!shift!

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: Scrubber
To the advocates who seem to think that there's no difference between AGP 4X and AGP 8X, I suggest you all read this

Wow, quoting a marketing document to further your "opinion".

You're a real smart one, aren't you? :roll:

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: FlyingPenguin
A P4 2.53Ghz with 1Gb is no slouch, unless you have a real crappy motherboard.

What specific model of ATI video card do you have?

What are you using for sound? Onboard sound? If so what chipset (C-Media, AC97, etc - should say in Device Manager)?

What is it you consider "poor" about your sound? Unless you're fanatic any $15 sound card made in the last 3 years will sound just fine for listening to music and playing games.

It would help if you describe what applications you want to run. Are you mostly concerned about gaming? If so what kind of games do you play or want to play? You have plenty of power for any regular desktop apps.

If improving you gaming performance is what you're concerned about, then just upgrading your video card may be all you need. Without breaking the bank, an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro would give you a nice gaming experience with all the latest games. If you can spare the money, get a Radeon x800 Pro.

Unless your computer feeds a $200+ audio system (or $50+ headphones), the sound on the mainboard should suffice.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: Scrubber

Originally posted by: Liquor Dealer
A couple of years ago I built my first computer. It's probably a wonder that it worked at all because I have very little expertise. It is a P4 2.53 on an Intel D845GBV board. I think I have enough power supply (Antec True Power 430 W) to run more than I currently have. I have 1 gig of ram (generic), and a Maxtor 7200 80G HD. I would like to have more computer than I have. I have lurked on these boards for a long time, but have been afraid of sounding like a total idiot if I asked something like this - but here goes - What all do I need to change, I don't have much of a video card - currently an ATI and have very poor quality sound. I don't plan to overclock whatever I come up with - just want something I don't have to wait on half of the time when I'm surfing, or wasting money on E-Bay.

(P.S. I also attempt to host a website on this computer)

Suggestions???

MB?
CPU?
Memory?
Video and Sound?

I appreciate any help I can get - Thanks

Hi Liquor,

Here's your: mobo and here are details of the CPUs it supports.

With all due respect to the other contributors here, my advice would be not to bother with upgrading your graphics card because as you can see from the specs, the mobo only supports AGP 4X. That means that your current card is being slowed down by the motherboard to the 4X clock speed which is only 275Mhz as opposed to 412Mhz or more for a AGP 8X card (which is what yours is capable of running at). This translates into far fewer frame rates per second in games, especially in MP games and you'll often experience stuttering because the GPU can't process the amount of data it's receiving fast enough.

So if you propose to upgrade with a new MBD, CPU etc., my first question is going to be, how much do you want to spend?

Do you mean that if I use 100MHz DDR memory, my processor speed would only be half compared to using 200MHz DDR memory?
There is absolutely no connection between AGP ratio and video card core or memory speed.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: Scrubber
To the advocates who seem to think that there's no difference between AGP 4X and AGP 8X, I suggest you all read this

Yes. AGP 8x is twice as fast as AGP 4x. This was evident from their names. Anything else?
By the way, I saw video cards in AGP format that were unable to stress the PCI bus (133 MB/s) - I even have one in my computer (TNT2 M64). Also, there were ATI RageIIc on AGP, and I had one like that on another computer.
AGP rating has nothing to do with performance

 

[Scrubber]

Originally posted by: boran
You're one of those religious zealots arent you ?
You only see what you think I say, wheras as you would actually read what I said you would notice that I'm talking about performance, not marketing. suure AGP 8x has double the bandwidth but since the capacity of 4x is not even fully used the speed difference is actually, nada, nothing, nul, zero... not much in other words ... and now I suggest you read up some more info before you type more nonsense.

Boran,

I seriously suggest you visit a psychiatrist, or at the very least, consider participating in anger management classes.

If you feel that there are inconsistencies in any information that I post on this forum, then please feel at liberty to comment accordingly. But do it in a civil manner please. Making disparinging remarks about my character or that of any other contributor for that matter doesn't impress me one iota and in the long run, only serves to demean yourself in the eyes of others. That goes for you too iwearnosocks.

Have a nice day.

 

[Deadtrees]

LOL!!

Thanks Scrubber. I haven't had a good laugh for a while then you saved me.
Your stupidity is funny as hell...

BTW, last time when I had good laugh is when a guy said 'if you clean the monitor, interent speed gets faster'

 

[BurnItDwn]

Scrubber, you are indeed VERY wrong about the AGP bus.
What Actaeon says is true factual data. No market jibberjabber, no BS, no lies, no misinformation, no deceit.

Please stop posting






FACTUAL INFORMATION EXAMPLE

Originally posted by: Actaeon
Scrubber, that is alot of misinformation.

The AGP spec has nothing to do with clockspeeds. It just specifies how much bandwidth is available from the card to the northbridge. Whether or not the card can take advantage of that much bandwidth is up to the GPU itself. I do not think there are any cards out there that would stress the AGP x4 bandwidth "limitations". Theortical AGP 1x bandwidth is 266mb/sec, AGP 8x is rated at 2.1gb/sec, because it offers 8x more bandwidth than the standardized AGP 1x spec.

Again, the ratings between each AGP spec has NOTHING to do with clock speeds, only theortical bandwidth available between the card and the northbridge.

Below is a what those of us who know WTF we are talking about call "A LOAD OF CRAP" The completely wrong "information" is bolded.

Originally posted by : Scrubber
With all due respect to the other contributors here, my advice would be not to bother with upgrading your graphics card because as you can see from the specs, the mobo only supports AGP 4X. That means that your current card is being slowed down by the motherboard to the 4X clock speed which is only 275Mhz as opposed to 412Mhz or more for a AGP 8X card (which is what yours is capable of running at). This translates into far fewer frame rates per second in games, especially in MP games and you'll often experience stuttering because the GPU can't process the amount of data it's receiving fast enough.

 

Originally posted by: Scrubber

Originally posted by: boran
You're one of those religious zealots arent you ?
You only see what you think I say, wheras as you would actually read what I said you would notice that I'm talking about performance, not marketing. suure AGP 8x has double the bandwidth but since the capacity of 4x is not even fully used the speed difference is actually, nada, nothing, nul, zero... not much in other words ... and now I suggest you read up some more info before you type more nonsense.

Boran,

I seriously suggest you visit a psychiatrist, or at the very least, consider participating in anger management classes.

If you feel that there are inconsistencies in any information that I post on this forum, then please feel at liberty to comment accordingly. But do it in a civil manner please. Making disparinging remarks about my character or that of any other contributor for that matter doesn't impress me one iota and in the long run, only serves to demean yourself in the eyes of others. That goes for you too iwearnosocks.

Have a nice day.

you're an idiot, but please continue posting, it makes me laugh :laugh:

edit: i don't see any inconsistencies in your posts...in fact i'd say you're very consistant.

 

[iwearnosox]

I propose "iwearnosocks" and "scrubber" are one in the same. I suspect he's a bit of an attention whore and constructs these not-so-elaborate demonstrations for his amusement.

I know "iwearnosocks" has probably been banned, as he's a previously banned user that keeps coming back. "Scrubber" is a new user as well, suspiciously doling out the advice as soon as he joins.

My vote: shenanigans.

 

[boran]

Originally posted by: iwearnosox

I propose "iwearnosocks" and "scrubber" are one in the same. I suspect he's a bit of an attention whore and constructs these not-so-elaborate demonstrations for his amusement.

I know "iwearnosocks" has probably been banned, as he's a previously banned user that keeps coming back. "Scrubber" is a new user as well, suspiciously doling out the nonsense as soon as he joins.

My vote: shenanigans.

Edited for truth

 

[David Brent]

Originally posted by: Scrubber

Originally posted by: boran
You're one of those religious zealots arent you ?
You only see what you think I say, wheras as you would actually read what I said you would notice that I'm talking about performance, not marketing. suure AGP 8x has double the bandwidth but since the capacity of 4x is not even fully used the speed difference is actually, nada, nothing, nul, zero... not much in other words ... and now I suggest you read up some more info before you type more nonsense.

Boran,

I seriously suggest you visit a psychiatrist, or at the very least, consider participating in anger management classes.

If you feel that there are inconsistencies in any information that I post on this forum, then please feel at liberty to comment accordingly. But do it in a civil manner please. Making disparinging remarks about my character or that of any other contributor for that matter doesn't impress me one iota and in the long run, only serves to demean yourself in the eyes of others. That goes for you too iwearnosocks.

Have a nice day.

stick to programming dude, when you open your mouth about 8x agp all it does is make us laugh at you...