I thought the US had separation of church and state

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Nitemare
The US is FAR from a secular society

You need some basis for comparison. Are we less secular than Iran or Saudi Arabia? No

Are we probably the least secular Western nation? Abso-fucking-lutely, how else would a non-issue like gay marriage ever be considered a reasonable political issue?

But... but... the gay will SPREAD if we don't stop it!

I think that the "gays" should be allowed to get married for insurrance/tax benefits. But the issue I have is adoption with that sort of setup, I just don't think it works.
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
2
0
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Way to represent your country, rambo.

Cry moar?
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
117
116
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Whoa there Trigger. Thanks for not being helpful at all. :thumbsup:

KT
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
59,208
13,801
136
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Nitemare
The US is FAR from a secular society

You need some basis for comparison. Are we less secular than Iran or Saudi Arabia? No

Are we probably the least secular Western nation? Abso-fucking-lutely, how else would a non-issue like gay marriage ever be considered a reasonable political issue?

But... but... the gay will SPREAD if we don't stop it!

I think that the "gays" should be allowed to get married for insurrance/tax benefits. But the issue I have is adoption with that sort of setup, I just don't think it works.

"Gays"? :confused:
What do you mean you "just don't think it works"?
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
2
0
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Whoa there Trigger. Thanks for not being helpful at all. :thumbsup:

KT

I was never trying to help you, Shirley.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
117
116
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Nitemare
The US is FAR from a secular society

You need some basis for comparison. Are we less secular than Iran or Saudi Arabia? No

Are we probably the least secular Western nation? Abso-fucking-lutely, how else would a non-issue like gay marriage ever be considered a reasonable political issue?

But... but... the gay will SPREAD if we don't stop it!

I think that the "gays" should be allowed to get married for insurrance/tax benefits. But the issue I have is adoption with that sort of setup, I just don't think it works.

I know gay couples that have adopted here in Vancouver that are head and shoulders above a good percentage of the parents I see on a regular basis. As for the child having to adjust to being from a different family setting than many other children, that may be an issue, but I think that would have more to do with where and how the child is raised.

KT
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
117
116
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Whoa there Trigger. Thanks for not being helpful at all. :thumbsup:

KT

I was never trying to help you, Shirley.

Well then, thanks for nothing. :beer:

KT
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Whoa there Trigger. Thanks for not being helpful at all. :thumbsup:

KT

I was never trying to help you, Shirley.

Well then, thanks for nothing. :beer:

KT

Pale Rider is pulling that trick where Costanza does everything he would normally do oppositely for a day, that's why all of the sudden he's some kind of giant bad ass.
 

Ballatician

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2007
1,985
0
0
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Are you not aware of the stem-cell or abortion debates?
 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Nitemare
The US is FAR from a secular society

You need some basis for comparison. Are we less secular than Iran or Saudi Arabia? No

Are we probably the least secular Western nation? Abso-fucking-lutely, how else would a non-issue like gay marriage ever be considered a reasonable political issue?

But... but... the gay will SPREAD if we don't stop it!

I think that the "gays" should be allowed to get married for insurrance/tax benefits. But the issue I have is adoption with that sort of setup, I just don't think it works.

"Gays"? :confused:
What do you mean you "just don't think it works"?

I was being comical when saying 'gays', why i used the quotes.

And I don't think it works because of natural human instincts. 2 men or 2 women cannot make a child together and I think would just confuse the hell out of a kid. Not to mention the fact that the adopted kid would be teased relentlessly, not matter how "accepting" we become as a society, which also screws with the kids head.

I'm not saying they would be horrible parents or wouldn't love the kid, but I just don't think its right psychologically for the child.
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Nitemare
The US is FAR from a secular society

You need some basis for comparison. Are we less secular than Iran or Saudi Arabia? No

Are we probably the least secular Western nation? Abso-fucking-lutely, how else would a non-issue like gay marriage ever be considered a reasonable political issue?

But... but... the gay will SPREAD if we don't stop it!

I think that the "gays" should be allowed to get married for insurrance/tax benefits. But the issue I have is adoption with that sort of setup, I just don't think it works.

"Gays"? :confused:
What do you mean you "just don't think it works"?

I was being comical when saying 'gays', why i used the quotes.

And I don't think it works because of natural human instincts. 2 men or 2 women cannot make a child together and I think would just confuse the hell out of a kid. Not to mention the fact that the adopted kid would be teased relentlessly, not matter how "accepting" we become as a society, which also screws with the kids head.

I my wife and I were to die, I would GLADLY have my child raised by an intelligent, productive gay couple then your typical dysfunctional heterosexual couple.
 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: Ballatician
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Are you not aware of the stem-cell or abortion debates?

I still can't figure out why religion has any impact on abortion debates. It should be clear cut: if the egg is fertilized, and will become a full-blown baby in a few months, you should not be allowed to kill it. Do anything you want to prevent the combination, but don't kill it after its done. And I believe in 0% religion.
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
2
0
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Whoa there Trigger. Thanks for not being helpful at all. :thumbsup:

KT

I was never trying to help you, Shirley.

Well then, thanks for nothing. :beer:

KT

Pale Rider is pulling that trick where Costanza does everything he would normally do oppositely for a day, that's why all of the sudden he's some kind of giant bad ass.

I might take offense but I am not sure who you are so I won't. Keep crying though, maybe you will get someone to join in with you.
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Whoa there Trigger. Thanks for not being helpful at all. :thumbsup:

KT

I was never trying to help you, Shirley.

Well then, thanks for nothing. :beer:

KT

Pale Rider is pulling that trick where Costanza does everything he would normally do oppositely for a day, that's why all of the sudden he's some kind of giant bad ass.

I might take offense but I am not sure who you are so I won't. Keep crying though, maybe you will get someone to join in with you.

lol
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
2
0
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Ballatician
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Are you not aware of the stem-cell or abortion debates?

I still can't figure out why religion has any impact on abortion debates. It should be clear cut: if the egg is fertilized, and will become a full-blown baby in a few months, you should not be allowed to kill it. Do anything you want to prevent the combination, but don't kill it after its done. And I believe in 0% religion.

It shouldn't involve religion at all. The logical conclusion is that abortion is at a minimum manslaughter.

The problem is there are so many anti-religion folks out there who will take any opposite point that the religious folks make that they end up not arguing for abortion just against the religious standpoint.

This has caused problems because the non-religious people who are against abortion get lumped in with the people fire-bombing clinics. I don't really care what the bible states. If you make a law that says you can't kill people that should include all people.
 

Ballatician

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2007
1,985
0
0
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Nitemare
The US is FAR from a secular society

You need some basis for comparison. Are we less secular than Iran or Saudi Arabia? No

Are we probably the least secular Western nation? Abso-fucking-lutely, how else would a non-issue like gay marriage ever be considered a reasonable political issue?

But... but... the gay will SPREAD if we don't stop it!

I think that the "gays" should be allowed to get married for insurrance/tax benefits. But the issue I have is adoption with that sort of setup, I just don't think it works.

"Gays"? :confused:
What do you mean you "just don't think it works"?

I was being comical when saying 'gays', why i used the quotes.

And I don't think it works because of natural human instincts. 2 men or 2 women cannot make a child together and I think would just confuse the hell out of a kid. Not to mention the fact that the adopted kid would be teased relentlessly, not matter how "accepting" we become as a society, which also screws with the kids head.

I'm not saying they would be horrible parents or wouldn't love the kid, but I just don't think its right psychologically for the child.

I was once like this, however I'll wait for Atomic Playboy to check in.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
I don't really understand that, and they did it at both conventions. I can't imagine anything like a prayer being ok at any of the political gatherings up here.

Are they just pandering to all the religious folks out there to get their votes? I can understand that on a smaller scale, say at the municipal, or even state level, but at a national convention, it seems kind of out of place in my opinion.

Anyone have any ideas or thoughts on this?

KT

So where in the constitution does it say separation of church and state?

Where in the Constitution does it say "murder"?

Where in the Constitution does it say "bodily integrity"?

Where in the Constitution does it say "interracial marriage"?

Where in the Constitution does it say "status quo ante"?

Of course the point is that lots of catch-phrases do not appear verbatim in the Constitution, but that doesn't mean that the don't stand for real legal principles.

That wouldn't stop you from asking asinine questions, though, would it? PS, "Constitution" is capitalized, dumbass. You fuckin' idiots are ruining our country.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
117
116
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Ballatician
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Are you not aware of the stem-cell or abortion debates?

I still can't figure out why religion has any impact on abortion debates. It should be clear cut: if the egg is fertilized, and will become a full-blown baby in a few months, you should not be allowed to kill it. Do anything you want to prevent the combination, but don't kill it after its done. And I believe in 0% religion.

It shouldn't involve religion at all. The logical conclusion is that abortion is at a minimum manslaughter.
The problem is there are so many anti-religion folks out there who will take any opposite point that the religious folks make that they end up not arguing for abortion just against the religious standpoint.

This has caused problems because the non-religious people who are against abortion get lumped in with the people fire-bombing clinics. I don't really care what the bible states. If you make a law that says you can't kill people that should include all people.

Logical to whom? I don't necessarily think it's logical to make a blanket statement like that.

KT
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: ric1287
I think that the "gays" should be allowed to get married for insurrance/tax benefits. But the issue I have is adoption with that sort of setup, I just don't think it works.

"Gays"? :confused:
What do you mean you "just don't think it works"?

I was being comical when saying 'gays', why i used the quotes.

And I don't think it works because of natural human instincts. 2 men or 2 women cannot make a child together and I think would just confuse the hell out of a kid. Not to mention the fact that the adopted kid would be teased relentlessly, not matter how "accepting" we become as a society, which also screws with the kids head.

I'm not saying they would be horrible parents or wouldn't love the kid, but I just don't think its right psychologically for the child.

It's true. I was raised by lesbian mothers, and to this day, I still try to have sex with wildebeests and sunflowers (not at the same time, of course; I was raised a gentleman).
 

Ballatician

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2007
1,985
0
0
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Ballatician
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Are you not aware of the stem-cell or abortion debates?

I still can't figure out why religion has any impact on abortion debates. It should be clear cut: if the egg is fertilized, and will become a full-blown baby in a few months, you should not be allowed to kill it. Do anything you want to prevent the combination, but don't kill it after its done. And I believe in 0% religion.

It shouldn't involve religion at all. The logical conclusion is that abortion is at a minimum manslaughter.

The problem is there are so many anti-religion folks out there who will take any opposite point that the religious folks make that they end up not arguing for abortion just against the religious standpoint.

This has caused problems because the non-religious people who are against abortion get lumped in with the people fire-bombing clinics. I don't really care what the bible states. If you make a law that says you can't kill people that should include all people.

I agree that it should not involve religion. The argument, however, is what constitutes a human.

In addition, should a woman that is raped, be forced to deal with 9 months of pregnancy without any other alternative?

These are not easy questions.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
Originally posted by: Ballatician
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Ballatician
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Are you not aware of the stem-cell or abortion debates?

I still can't figure out why religion has any impact on abortion debates. It should be clear cut: if the egg is fertilized, and will become a full-blown baby in a few months, you should not be allowed to kill it. Do anything you want to prevent the combination, but don't kill it after its done. And I believe in 0% religion.

It shouldn't involve religion at all. The logical conclusion is that abortion is at a minimum manslaughter.

The problem is there are so many anti-religion folks out there who will take any opposite point that the religious folks make that they end up not arguing for abortion just against the religious standpoint.

This has caused problems because the non-religious people who are against abortion get lumped in with the people fire-bombing clinics. I don't really care what the bible states. If you make a law that says you can't kill people that should include all people.

I agree that it should not involve religion. The argument, however, is what constitutes a human.

In addition, should a woman that is raped, be forced to deal with 9 months of pregnancy without any other alternative?

These are not easy questions.

If you think about it, a woman should not have the right to choose whether to abort a child because one an egg is fertilized, it ceases to be part of her. Was the egg produced by the body of the woman? Yes. Was the sperm produced by the man? Yes. Is the resuulting fused sperm/egg which becomes an embryo a product of either the man or the woman? No. It ceases to be the egg it was, and ceases to be the sperm it was, and isntead the two have become one, new creation- it is the beginning of the physical form of a new human being. Therefore no one should have the right to kill it. It might be developing within the womb of a woman, but it had no choice in the matter, and there is no excuse to kill what will grow to be a person.
 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: ric1287
I think that the "gays" should be allowed to get married for insurrance/tax benefits. But the issue I have is adoption with that sort of setup, I just don't think it works.

"Gays"? :confused:
What do you mean you "just don't think it works"?

I was being comical when saying 'gays', why i used the quotes.

And I don't think it works because of natural human instincts. 2 men or 2 women cannot make a child together and I think would just confuse the hell out of a kid. Not to mention the fact that the adopted kid would be teased relentlessly, not matter how "accepting" we become as a society, which also screws with the kids head.

I'm not saying they would be horrible parents or wouldn't love the kid, but I just don't think its right psychologically for the child.

It's true. I was raised by lesbian mothers, and to this day, I still try to have sex with wildebeests and sunflowers (not at the same time, of course; I was raised a gentleman).

Didn't say that, but cool. Still doesn't matter for me, 1 person saying "I'm a-ok" doesn't mean its 100% true for everyone.
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
2
0
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Ballatician
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
That's interesting Eeezee because I have heard many times that your country was founded by Christians, so of course the laws and morals of the country are founded on Christian beliefs.

My knowledge of US history is rudimentary at best, so I do not know which is correct, but it seems to me that religious doctrine has had an impact on the laws of your country on more than one occassion.

KT

Since you are seemingly ignorant to our history (by your own admission) and even the most basic workings of our government (by your example) do yourself a favor and don't make any more stupid assertions about our laws.

Are you not aware of the stem-cell or abortion debates?

I still can't figure out why religion has any impact on abortion debates. It should be clear cut: if the egg is fertilized, and will become a full-blown baby in a few months, you should not be allowed to kill it. Do anything you want to prevent the combination, but don't kill it after its done. And I believe in 0% religion.

It shouldn't involve religion at all. The logical conclusion is that abortion is at a minimum manslaughter.
The problem is there are so many anti-religion folks out there who will take any opposite point that the religious folks make that they end up not arguing for abortion just against the religious standpoint.

This has caused problems because the non-religious people who are against abortion get lumped in with the people fire-bombing clinics. I don't really care what the bible states. If you make a law that says you can't kill people that should include all people.

Logical to whom? I don't necessarily think it's logical to make a blanket statement like that.

KT

Do you not care for the term used or the implication?
 

uberman

Golden Member
Sep 15, 2006
1,942
1
81
Look at the zygote. He's 8 hours old. Let's call him "Timmy." At this time he is preoccupied with cell division. He's as human as you or I...

Say what?