i think there's about to be a heroin epidemic in the USA....

[zanejohnson]

They already did this. Like a week or so back. All this doses is make patients who need the pain medication less likely to get it since schedule II is carefully monitored on who and how many doctors write scripts for it. So if you break your arm or leg and go to the hospital the chances are good they will only send you home with a short supply of Tramadol or something much less effective.

This affects chronic pain patients more than anyone else. Most of who are not drug addicts nor do they become addicted. They will now need once a month visits for these prescriptions.

The other thing that is happening is doctors who are pain management doctors just go ahead and give out things like Zohydro, or Exalgo, or Morphine pills since they are all classified the same.

how ridiculous.

i'm in that exact situation...

even though i have pretty extensive damage to my leg (it's deformed, and painful, all the time), but i have to work, and i work alot... 60-70 hours some weeks... i can't be a zombie, but i can't be limping around people's offices either.... hydrocodone is a godsend for me and i'm sure MANY others... i dont abuse it (i mean, the inheritant nature of opiates is kinda of... stigmatized, they DO make you feel great, and for some reason that's.....frowned upon nowdays?) but i'm very careful to watch my consumption, never go over 30-40mg in a day.. which keeps withdrawal to minimum..


i feel like i'm getting shafted, my primary doc let me in on what's going on a few months ago, and when i saw him last time he wrote me pre-dated prescriptions for 3 months, but he said he wasn't sure how this was going to end up working out, and kinda hinted that i should probably find a pain specialist.....but i dont NEED THAT!!! I DONT WANT STRONGER MEDS!!


it just seems so ridiculous now... i dont need the government to hold my hand for this, i'm a grown man.... and why are they legislating morality??? just seems so...... ridiculous and corrupt, completely lacking rationality.

 

[zanejohnson]

They promised him his next rank after Iraq and Afghanistan and .... so sorry, we're letting you go.

Nice, Army.

ridiculous, and the way veterans are treated!!! out of line, completely.

i've heard of like 7 month waiting lists to see a VA doctor, i really feel for them, war is no picnic, the least we can do is give them top notch care when they get home......but we dont.

 

[Zorkorist]

You are quite obviously a user, ZaneJohnson.

I remember reading a book titled "junkie" that told the story of an air field man, introduced to heroin.

He recovered.

-John

 

[zanejohnson]

You are quite obviously a user, ZaneJohnson.

I remember reading a book titled "junkie" that told the story of an air field man, introduced to heroin.

He recovered.

-John

yeah it's kinda known on this forum, i used to use recreationally and it got way out of control...... then i really got hurt, also grew up alot during that time.....now it's for legitimate reasons, and moderation is key. i'm talking about hydrocodone use now, not diamorphine.. though i HAVE used it plenty in the past....

honestly, it gets a really bad rap, it's actually a better med than everything used now, as far as efficacy, and withdrawal....

the new stuff out now, like suboxone......now that's a seriously bad drug.

and they act like it's some wonderful drug that's gonna get you off big bad heroin.....really it's worse.


i dont see a problem with opiate use to control pain..... it's an ancient medicine...only in the last 100 or so years have we had it rammed down our throats that's the worst stuff ever...

really it's the government, our government that is the problem, it's a bold faced lie, the way they've stigmatized all of the natural, ancient meds.....cannabis, opium, cocaine...

it's all about the patents, it's all about extortion, it's all about having control over exactly what you're addicted too.

it's fine to be addicted to oxycontin if you have a legitimate chronic pain situation......because it's "fda approved." , it's fine to take adderall, for your ADD...because you get it from big pharma.., it's fine to take a xanax, for your anxiety..


opium, and cocaine? or cannabis? GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL.

 

[Zorkorist]

It helps me stay off the hard-stuff, Zane... so you have that going for you.

Drugs are bad, m-kay?

I wish I could help you better. I quit smoking after 33 years. but I can't help you.

Only you, can help you.

-John

 

[Oldgamer]

yeah it's kinda known on this forum, i used to use recreationally and it got way out of control...... then i really got hurt, also grew up alot during that time.....now it's for legitimate reasons, and moderation is key.

Do you have a chronic pain management doctor? One that can legally dispense these medications upon reviewing your file and medical history? Because they aren't' barred from prescribing to their pain patients they just can't call in refills anymore. It is handled the same way you handle MS Contin, Exalgo and other Class II pain meds. You just have to see your doctor once a month do your follow up and have a hand written prescription. In addition most doctors can legally write you up to 3 hand written scripts with a earliest refill date. Meaning you basically have your refills in hand and get them filled without going once a month. Just make sure that the pharmacy you visit allow that. Some do and some don't. I have family members who I manage their health care and I have gone through this. So it isn't as bad as you think. But if your a known drug user and it comes up on any doctors system they may be hesitant to write you any of these until you have signed a contract, maybe do monthly pill counting etc. Anyway I wish you look on finding what you need to manage your pain.

 

[Zorkorist]

But as an addict, I am here to help you, if/when you need it Zane. I'll support you, and tell you that it will get better, believe it or not.

-John

 

[Oldgamer]

It helps me stay off the hard-stuff, Zane... so you have that going for you.

Drugs are bad, m-kay?

I wish I could help you better. I quit smoking after 33 years. but I can't help you.

Only you, can help you.

-John

The thing I think most people don't understand about people who may be addicted is that they may have real chronic pain and they get treated much differently almost unethically in my opinion when it comes to making sure their pain is under control. There are doctors who work with people who have been known users and still prescribe these medications to help them. For example Butrans patch can be prescribed to help eliminate pain but it doesn't allow one to get the "high or euphoric" feeling that users get but they still get pain relief. Also the extended relief medications like MS-Contin ER and Exalgo ER have added ingredients to keep a user from experiencing any rush or high.

I think it is a matter of working with a doctor who has experience in dealing with drug addicts and will work a contract with them for piss tests, and pill counting etc. It is a hassle, but at least the user can get pain relief and still be treated in an appropriate way.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Fpmitap is a hell of a motivator to quit cold turkey. Or just not getting hooked on opiates is another option.

our prison system seems to do an excellent job of keeping people in it, rather than out of it

 

[sportage]

i think there's about to be a heroin epidemic in the USA....

Hell... I'll drink to that.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Government apparently didn't learn it's lesson from the Prohibition era. (The irony being a Democrat president repealed it.)

 

[Zorkorist]

The other end of pain and inactivity. is to get out and exercise.

In old folks homes, they ask people to walk as far as they can in 5 minutes.

Do that yourself.

Watch your number grow, and feel like a winner.

-John

 

[Oldgamer]

We already have a heroin epidemic that has already been reported on. That is why I think the whole war on drugs needs to stop. We need to stop throwing people in jail who are users/addicts and start issuing treatment for them instead of prison time. Anyway.. so much misinformation out there about all these drugs. The media has done a damn fine job of scaring the hell out of people about all these drugs. I see a next door neighbor who has severe arthritis and a deformed back and hands and she is too scared to get on any pain medication because she thinks she will become an addict, when in fact she probably wouldn't. Real chronic pain patients rarely if ever become addicts. But anyway, just sad to see how we keep up on the whole war on drugs and like to really dehumanize these people.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

The other end of pain and inactivity. is to get out and exercise.

In old folks homes, they ask people to walk as far as they can in 5 minutes.

Do that yourself.

Watch your number grow, and feel like a winner.

-John

I'll make sure to mention that to a guy I'll see tomorrow. To hell with the pain, just walk it off, it will get better. Oh wait, you had your legs amputated. Too bad!

 

[Zorkorist]

Wow. You are hurting him, with that attitude. Please tell me you are not paid by me (Government)

-John

 

[TurtleCrusher]

I'm currently taking hydrocodone again after injuring my left knee again while performing physical therapy exercises. I absolutely need it to be able to walk around now. The pain is so immense when I have to stand or walk around, nevermind stairs.

I've used maybe 120 5/325mg hydrocodone over the past 7 months. Will it actually be more difficult to obtain if I'm already getting it legally? As in, will my orthopedic surgeon still write scripts?

 

[lopri]

how will they possibly feel more UNINHIBITED?

the dea watches schedule 2's like a HAWK, you pretty much gotta have cancer....

I was responding to your proposal to designate hydrocodone as schedule IV drug.

I am aware of the issue regarding legitimate patients who need to control pain in order to function normally. And in my opinion, liberally prescribing opioid is not going to help them, because that will blur the line even more between abuse and legitimate use. There may be a temporary relief for those with legitimate needs, but that relief is to be likely short lived as more people will seek opioid for variety of reasons.

The alleged U.S. involvement in Afghanistan for revenue purpose is a dubious theory. FDA and DOD's budgets are order of magnitude larger than the alleged amount, and if anything FDA would prefer to make money off legitimately by taxing pharmaceutical companies. Whatever the U.S. involvement in Afghanistan, if it exists, is more likely tactical/informational than financial. I would not condone it in either scenario but as of now the conspiracy theory that the U.S. military is somehow engaging in commercial transaction with the farmers in Afghan for shared profit is highly unconvincing.

I agree that we need a serious reform with all the ails that War on Drug policy entailed. I am not persuaded that relaxing the prescription criteria for therapeutic narcotics should be part of it because I believe such policy will aggravate the situation with regards to legitimate patients' needs.

 

[Linux23]

If only people cared enough to have a deep, and fundamental discussion of why some people abuse drugs and some don't, then we can stop throwing the whole kitchen sink at an entire problem instead of finding the root cause and handling things on a case by case basis.

I'm with you OP. I have chronic back pain and I will be honest, I used to get scripts for vicoden and percocet like candy. With refills to boot. I was supposed to take 4-6 pills a day, but honest I took then when i started feeling pain, so I normally ended up with half the bottle or more of unused pills before my next refill. Sometimes I broke the pills in half just because I felt what I needed to feel comfortable for that particular time. That's a novelty huh? I made an adult decision to halve my medicine based on and informed adult decision about my own body!

Oh, and here's a kicker, I went to a relatively new doctor for a virus I have right now. She was going through my medication history and she mentioned xanax for my anxiety. I was floored because I never even mentioned I was taking that. How the F did she know if I was taking xanax or not? This shit is getting real, and the only people that's gonna get hurt are the legitimate people that need these medications.

 

[Thebobo]

Man this sucks for with chronic pain. They have to pay the doctor to see him once a month to get a subscription. Not to mention the physical act of going to see him.

More folks will be growing poppies

http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/opium-made-easy/

 

[zanejohnson]

Man this sucks for with chronic pain. They have to pay the doctor to see him once a month to get a subscription. Not to mention the physical act of going to see him.

More folks will be growing poppies

http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/opium-made-easy/

considering it's a felony, i think they're gonna take the easier route.. and go see the neighborhood mexican..


it's almost like some backroom deal was made with the DTO's (drug trafficking organizations, and cartels)...


pot used to be the cash crop, supported the whole operation.. now it's being legalized, and more importantly, produced in commercial quantities here in the states... it's almost like the government is handing the opiate market to them to fill the gap..

just some quick math... before people were spending ~150-300 for the doctor visit, twice a year, and spending about 80 a month for the actual meds (based off the price of what i pay for 120 norco 10/325..

now that's gonna go to 150-300 every month, plus the 80 on top of that.... so upwards of 300-400 a month as opposed to ~100/month averaged, if you were getting 6 refills (seeing the doctor twice a year).....that's quadrupled..


heroin comes down to about 10 bucks a day for 100mg a day.... and 100mg of diamorphine is actually much more potent than 40mg of hydrocodone a day.... it's about 4x as potent mg/mg compared to hydrocodone.....so a person only using when needed, could knock that down to 5 dollars a day......


so about 150-300 a month if you went that route instead.....

it's a no brainer..

 

[waggy]

Man this sucks for with chronic pain. They have to pay the doctor to see him once a month to get a subscription. Not to mention the physical act of going to see him.

More folks will be growing poppies

http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/opium-made-easy/

yeah it's a pain in the ass.

aslo many pharmacy's just aren't filling narco anymore. since it's a class II its not worth it.

I used to have no trouble getting narco 10's. then places refused to fill them. now i get narco 5/325 and told to take 2. uh..damn.

also they limit you to 30 pills a time. each refill you have to see the pain clinic. so for some that can be 2-3 times a month..

 

[zanejohnson]

yeah it's a pain in the ass.

aslo many pharmacy's just aren't filling narco anymore. since it's a class II its not worth it.

I used to have no trouble getting narco 10's. then places refused to fill them. now i get narco 5/325 and told to take 2. uh..damn.

also they limit you to 30 pills a time. each refill you have to see the pain clinic. so for some that can be 2-3 times a month..

holy crap, limited to 30 pills at a time too!


now that's plain ridiculous...

they can't possibly think this isn't gonna blow up right in there faces.. i mean these are medical professionals we are talking about, they know good and well how this is going to play out, that's what sucks.. they do know, and they are doing it on purpose, that's real corruption, it's so crazy that suboxone is schedule III !!!!!! all those people who go to suboxone.....oh man i feel sorry for them. trading up a light opiod with minimal withdrawal and a short half life (4-6 hours) for freaking buprenorphine.... buprenorphine is a hard drug... month long acute withdrawal! and in the event of an accidental overdose (and it's easy to do with 8mg of buprenorphine in each pill) 8mg of buprenorphine is equivelant to like 160mg of oxycodone!! there's no way to reverse it! naloxone wont work!

edit: wanted to point out that schedule III buprenorphine, they come in 8mg and 2mg strengths..... with a 72 hour half life..

so they are effectively moving people with a 40mg hydrodone daily consumption, to the equivalent of 160-200mg of hydrocodone equivelent (8mg buprenorphine)

i'm comparing hydrocodone and buprenorphine because that's what is going to happen, most people who decide to "quit," do it with suboxone nowdays, and someone who's been taking hydrocodone for more than couple years (even if it's a relatively low dose (20-40mg a day) is still going to suffer withdrawal if they go cold turkey.....most won't be able to do this, and will go the suboxone route..probably suggested by there doc (since they will be MORE willing to write it then hydrocodone now) it's scheduled lighter!!

 

[who?]

Government apparently didn't learn it's lesson from the Prohibition era. (The irony being a Democrat president repealed it.)

Prohibition of alcohol is difficult because it can be made from any fruits, vegetables or grains and doesn't require a specialized plant like opium poppies.

 

[zanejohnson]

Prohibition of alcohol is difficult because it can be made from any fruits, vegetables or grains and doesn't require a specialized plant like opium poppies.

it's just as specialized of a plant as cannabis.... and that worked out so differently?

my only point is it's just a simple supply and demand situation....

now the legal supply is cut off (or so controlled it's not worth it anymore)

the demand isn't gonna change... in fact it's only going to grow because now people (who otherwise wouldnt be, will be exposed to much more addictive alternatives.)

 

[lopri]

I'm with you OP. I have chronic back pain and I will be honest, I used to get scripts for vicoden and percocet like candy. With refills to boot. I was supposed to take 4-6 pills a day, but honest I took then when i started feeling pain, so I normally ended up with half the bottle or more of unused pills before my next refill. Sometimes I broke the pills in half just because I felt what I needed to feel comfortable for that particular time. That's a novelty huh? I made an adult decision to halve my medicine based on and informed adult decision about my own body!

But you are clearly evaluating your self-moderation and your success to the standard that was given to you by a doctor, who in turn was acting within the boundary set by FDA. How else would you know you are doing well in that regard?

And it seems like the current regulation is working rather well for you and your doctor according to your own description. I do not know where the outrage is coming from.

Oh, and here's a kicker, I went to a relatively new doctor for a virus I have right now. She was going through my medication history and she mentioned xanax for my anxiety. I was floored because I never even mentioned I was taking that. How the F did she know if I was taking xanax or not? This shit is getting real, and the only people that's gonna get hurt are the legitimate people that need these medications.

This is so backwards. Regardless how she learned of your past medical history, wouldn't you want a new doctor to know about it, if you are going to let her help you with your health? What is the point of seeing a doctor if you want her to not know about it?

If only people cared enough to have a deep, and fundamental discussion of why some people abuse drugs and some don't, then we can stop throwing the whole kitchen sink at an entire problem instead of finding the root cause and handling things on a case by case basis.

I am sorry but this argument is too vacuous to be taken seriously. It sounds like a politician talking, e.g. "We need to change." (change what, exactly?) It is unfair to accuse others of apathy without giving a clue as to what the "deep, and fundamental discussion" you speak of consists of.

really it's the government, our government that is the problem, it's a bold faced lie, the way they've stigmatized all of the natural, ancient meds.....cannabis, opium, cocaine...

it's all about the patents, it's all about extortion, it's all about having control over exactly what you're addicted too.

I know it is en vogue to take everything on the government (actually I thought now it's a passé) but some regulations have historical and scientific backgrounds. Like, how/why economically self-sufficient China went to fight against the Britain over trade in Opium Wars. Or what happened in the U.S. during the period of Industrial Revolution - Opium Syrup for crying infants!

P.S. While the below was not about a pain medication, it is hilarious and scary at the same time. (a makeup lotion with nuclear agents..)

Shocking 1950's Commercial!