i think i'm doing it - making the switch from the 360 to a PS3

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
My counterpoint did not go to the extreme of pointing out the incredible inaccuracy to that level, as I had assumed that English was not their first language and can forgive non native speakers gross misuse in those cases(I butcher German constantly, my wife is always giving me grief ). I limited the comparison strictly to 360 users, and I clearly included that I was speaking of Live Gold members. Again, there are 20 million XBox360 owners that aren't even using Live Gold, pointing back to the original comment yet again, how is it that the 10 Million users who are currently paying, and we will assume every one of them is happy, is FAR more then the 20Million who aren't?

False assumption is false. You can't say that everyone that doesn't have Xbox Live Gold is unhappy with Xbox Live Gold because you don't know how many of those ever have even tried Live Gold in the first place. You further made the assumption that the reason people are unhappy with Live Gold earlier is because of the conduct of douchebags while playing online. Again, this is a false assumption.

You would need to come back with the number of people that have signed up for Live Gold and then didn't renew solely because of the conduct of others while playing online. And I doubt that is barely a fraction of 20 million.

 

[BenSkywalker]

If you don't understand that in almost all contexts "not happy" is understood to mean unhappy, then you really need to stop questioning how well other people know the English language.

Non affirmative does not by default mean negative, it would be rather elementary to think it did(I'll have to check with the younger kids when they get home, see how many of the elementary age would make that kind of mistake). The fact that the post I was replying to flatly stated that 20Million is more then 5.98Billion is still OK for you. Interesting.

You can't say that everyone that doesn't have Xbox Live Gold is unhappy with Xbox Live Gold

I never said any such thing. Seriously people? Have any of you taken even basic English? Non affirmative does not by default equal negative. This is very, very basic. Early development level.

You further made the assumption that the reason people are unhappy with Live Gold earlier is because of the conduct of douchebags while playing online.

Who are you talking to? If it is me, please quote anything I said that is remotely like that. I really don't appreciate it when people tell flat out lies about what I stated.

Edit= Checked with my wife, English is her third language, she made the same mistake you all did. Kids are at school, if they make the same mistake their Uncle is going to scorn them this weekend(linguist ). To explain it to her, I picked a leaf up off the ground and asked her if she was happy with it. She looked confused, and said no. I pointed out 'so you aren't happy with it' and she got what I was saying. Non affirmative does not mean negative. Of course, English is her third language, and I'll be damned if I could figure out how to word that properly in German or French.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
I never said any such thing. Seriously people? Have any of you taken even basic English? Non affirmative does not by default equal negative. This is very, very basic. Early development level.

I think you've lost most of us on this and that should tell you something. I think an overwhelming majority of people would take "not happy" and "unhappy" to mean pretty much the same thing. You're claiming this is basic English, but I don't recall being taught this concept. To the contrary, I was taught that "not" was a negative.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
You further made the assumption that the reason people are unhappy with Live Gold earlier is because of the conduct of douchebags while playing online.

Who are you talking to? If it is me, please quote anything I said that is remotely like that. I really don't appreciate it when people tell flat out lies about what I stated.[/quote]

You've spent most of the entire first three or four pages of this thread bashing Live for homophobia and racism. That has been your only complaint about Live. You've based Live's inferiority to PSN solely on this argument in this thread. You've provided no other evidence as to why people might not use Live Gold. Do the math.

Edit= Checked with my wife, English is her third language, she made the same mistake you all did. Kids are at school, if they make the same mistake their Uncle is going to scorn them this weekend(linguist ). To explain it to her, I picked a leaf up off the ground and asked her if she was happy with it. She looked confused, and said no. I pointed out 'so you aren't happy with it' and she got what I was saying. Non affirmative does not mean negative. Of course, English is her third language, and I'll be damned if I could figure out how to word that properly in German or French.

You're being too cute by half trying to make a point that is non-sensical.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

If you don't understand that in almost all contexts "not happy" is understood to mean unhappy, then you really need to stop questioning how well other people know the English language.

Non affirmative does not by default mean negative, it would be rather elementary to think it did(I'll have to check with the younger kids when they get home, see how many of the elementary age would make that kind of mistake). The fact that the post I was replying to flatly stated that 20Million is more then 5.98Billion is still OK for you. Interesting.

No, because I understood what he meant by "How much are you willing to bet that there are FAR more people happy with XBL than those that aren't?" You can't take everything literally - context matters.

If you want to see that "not happy" is usually used in place of "unhappy," just google it. You're interpreting the phrase literally, which is incorrect in most contexts.

 

[BenSkywalker]

To the contrary, I was taught that "not" was a negative.

That is absolutely correct. Saying someone is not tall does not mean they are short.

You've spent most of the entire first three or four pages of this thread bashing Live for homophobia and racism. That has been your only complaint about Live.

You are correct, that is why I don't like it. I provided links as people try to marginalize the fact that it happens at all. I have not once stated that is why anyone else on the planet disliked it.

You've provided no other evidence as to why people might not use Live Gold. Do the math.

I also haven't stated what kind of servers Live uses, that goes beyond the reach of my comments. For whatever reason, the majority of 360 users don't use Gold Live. Given that the majority do use either Silver or Gold, I would say cost is likely a much larger factor then why I don't like it. That is speculation on my part, but the numbers would tend to indicate that that is the case. I can tell you why 3 360s(two in my house, one in my friends with kids) on this planet are not on Live, the rest I can only guess.

You're being too cute by half trying to make a point that is non-sensical.

It is truly basic English. If I say 'they aren't tall' every one of you reads that as me calling them short? That is precisely what you are saying.

You're interpreting the phrase literally, which is incorrect

ROFL, that is damn near quote worthy

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Really, BenSkywalker? Now your argument has devolved into semantics about the usage of the English language?

:roll:

 

[BenSkywalker]

Really, BenSkywalker? Now your argument has devolved into semantics about the usage of the English language?

You're interpreting the phrase literally, which is incorrect

About a sentence I wrote? Trust me, I meant for it to be taken literally, I wrote it in the first place.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Really, BenSkywalker? Now your argument has devolved into semantics about the usage of the English language?

You're interpreting the phrase literally, which is incorrect

About a sentence I wrote? Trust me, I meant for it to be taken literally, I wrote it in the first place.

Your initial argument has such little ground to stand on now, and has been refuted by pretty much every other poster, that the entire crux of your argument now lies with your usage of "not happy" versus "unhappy".

Really? I mean, I'm just chuckling about it because it's quite silly.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
That is absolutely correct. Saying someone is not tall does not mean they are short.

Actually, it could. It depends on whether or not someone makes a distinction between tall and short. For example, someone who is tall may regard everyone not like them as short. It's about context. To that end...

20 Million 360 users aren't happy with Live Gold according to MS.

That is the statement that started this silliness. So, first off, we're essentially talking about emotions here, which is a very fuzzy area to begin with. I mean, using your own logic, I could take your statement to mean that the 20 million aren't happy because they're actually thrilled. But in context with the rest of the sentence it's clear you meant something "less" than happy, not more. And since you specifically selected "happy" as your emotion of choice virtually everyone is going to assume that you mean "unhappy" when you throw "not" in front of it. That's just how it is.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Not in the least, I don't see people trying to deny the issue is real anymore. I think I provided over 70,000 links on that topic.

What they then switched to was an attempt to debunk my statements by poor comprehension.

For the counterpoint concerning the strenghts of Live what we have gotten so far is a list of features that PSN has all but one of(that is coming with 3.0 and you can find my rant about how terrible that is looking, I'll probably pull my PS3s off line before getting that Live esque garbage). Oddly enough, what we haven't seen anyone bring up is the strength of XBLA which in terms of smaller games still has a decisive edge over PSN, or the fact that games are more likely on PSN to need a patch to get latency issues resolved while this is far less frequent on XBL. Seems like we have a lot of people that love to defend Live, but they don't seem to have any idea why they are doing so(Quesy is the only one that truly attempted it as a counterpoint, and mainly he listed features PSN has too).

That is the statement that started this silliness. So, first off, we're essentially talking about emotions here, which is a very fuzzy area to begin with. I mean, using your own logic, I could take your statement to mean that the 20 million aren't happy because they're actually thrilled. But in context with the rest of the sentence it's clear you meant something "less" than happy, not more. And since you specifically selected "happy" as your emotion of choice virtually everyone is going to assume that you mean "unhappy" when you throw "not" in front of it. That's just how it is.

I didn't select the word, I was replying to another comment. If you are saying that I am incorrect, and the others are correct, then you are saying 20 million people are happy with a service they don't even have.

 

[mugs]

BenSkywalker, please stop defiling the English language with your absurd interpretations of things people say. Have you ever heard the phrase "missing the forest for the trees?" You're doing it. Don't take it literally, there is no forest and there are no trees.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Not in the least, I don't see people trying to deny the issue is real anymore. I think I provided over 70,000 links on that topic.

What they then switched to was an attempt to debunk my statements by poor comprehension.

For the counterpoint concerning the strenghts of Live what we have gotten so far is a list of features that PSN has all but one of(that is coming with 3.0 and you can find my rant about how terrible that is looking, I'll probably pull my PS3s off line before getting that Live esque garbage). Oddly enough, what we haven't seen anyone bring up is the strength of XBLA which in terms of smaller games still has a decisive edge over PSN, or the fact that games are more likely on PSN to need a patch to get latency issues resolved while this is far less frequent on XBL. Seems like we have a lot of people that love to defend Live, but they don't seem to have any idea why they are doing so(Quesy is the only one that truly attempted it as a counterpoint, and mainly he listed features PSN has too).

That is the statement that started this silliness. So, first off, we're essentially talking about emotions here, which is a very fuzzy area to begin with. I mean, using your own logic, I could take your statement to mean that the 20 million aren't happy because they're actually thrilled. But in context with the rest of the sentence it's clear you meant something "less" than happy, not more. And since you specifically selected "happy" as your emotion of choice virtually everyone is going to assume that you mean "unhappy" when you throw "not" in front of it. That's just how it is.

I didn't select the word, I was replying to another comment. If you are saying that I am incorrect, and the others are correct, then you are saying 20 million people are happy with a service they don't even have.

Despite all the other flaws in your arguement someone could be very happy with live but either can't afford it anymore or maybe their mommy stopped paying for it. Your assertion was stupid either way.

 

[BenSkywalker]

BenSkywalker, please stop defiling the English language with your absurd interpretations of things people say.

We are discussing what *I* said. On a literal basis it was accurate- I authored the statement in the first place and can tell you with absolute certainty that as the author the exacting literal meaning is precisely what I meant.

You are trying to state what I said wasn't exactly what was meant.

Despite all the other flaws in your arguement someone could be very happy with live but either can't afford it anymore or maybe their mommy stopped paying for it.

You seriously underestimate how closely I pay attention to what is written

How much are you willing to bet that there are FAR more people happy with XBL than those that aren't?

Not were, are. Yes, I read everything like that. Notice I also used the current tense. It was not accidental.

 

[R Nilla]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Not in the least, I don't see people trying to deny the issue is real anymore. I think I provided over 70,000 links on that topic.

An issue that isn't limited to XBL but also pervades PSN, PC and would affect the Wii if it were actually possible to do anything meaningful with it online. What's funny is that if you replace "Xbox Live" with "PSN" in your search it yields well over 200,000 links.

Does this mean PSN is three times as racist as XBL? :Q

 

[Kabob]

Oh my gosh, this thread should have been locked after the OP's troll post, how is this still going on?

 

[mode101wpb]

I bought a PS3 last year, the MGS4 bundle with the 80GB drive and backward compatible. I basically bought it for the Metal Gear Series primarily and played all the series in full glory. Never had a need for the Blu-ray drive or used much of the features included. Tried several other games but found none that kept my interest long, ended up selling it 5 months later.

Now I'm looking at the 360 Arcade, since it's supposedly improved. I can add a 20GB HD if I need it, don't know why I would at this time? I had the original Xbox and had some fun with it, but was scared off by the 360 and it's issues of failure. Now I'm thinking they improved it enough and for $200 it may be worth the risk with the vast amount of games and more on the way coming out compared to PS3 which isn't too great.

I hear rumors that the Arcade model might get an additional price drop, reason why I'm holding off a little. I can't really see a $99 price but $149 might be possible if they are willing to take the hit?

 

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: mode101wpb
I bought a PS3 last year, the MGS4 bundle with the 80GB drive and backward compatible. I basically bought it for the Metal Gear Series primarily and played all the series in full glory. Never had a need for the Blu-ray drive or used much of the features included. Tried several other games but found none that kept my interest long, ended up selling it 5 months later.

Now I'm looking at the 360 Arcade, since it's supposedly improved. I can add a 20GB HD if I need it, don't know why I would at this time? I had the original Xbox and had some fun with it, but was scared off by the 360 and it's issues of failure. Now I'm thinking they improved it enough and for $200 it may be worth the risk with the vast amount of games and more on the way coming out compared to PS3 which isn't too great.

I hear rumors that the Arcade model might get an additional price drop, reason why I'm holding off a little. I can't really see a $99 price but $149 might be possible if they are willing to take the hit?

You can find Arcade models online for $150-170 if you look around. Why wait? Also, I'd get a 20GB HDD, there's alot of stuff I have on mine that you wouldn't think of.

 

[BenSkywalker]

An issue that isn't limited to XBL but also pervades PSN, PC and would affect the Wii if it were actually possible to do anything meaningful with it online. What's funny is that if you replace "Xbox Live" with "PSN" in your search it yields well over 200,000 links.

Reportedly anyone who does that gets banned from PSN, I've honestly never seen the racist/homophobic rants that I've seen over and over on Live!. Now that we have a price drop on the PS3 we will see, shifting demographics can certainly impact the quality of person on the service.

If you are under the impression that I would have any less venom for Sony if they allowed the same type of behaviour I can assure you you are mistaken though. It isn't a one sided thing at all, the new XMB look in 3.0 is more Live esque, you can find my rant about that in the PS3Slim announcement thread.

I hear rumors that the Arcade model might get an additional price drop, reason why I'm holding off a little. I can't really see a $99 price but $149 might be possible if they are willing to take the hit?

I would strongly reccomend getting an Elite over an Arcade. You will end up paying about the same or more if you piece it out.

 

[R Nilla]

Originally posted by: kabob983

Originally posted by: mode101wpb
I hear rumors that the Arcade model might get an additional price drop, reason why I'm holding off a little. I can't really see a $99 price but $149 might be possible if they are willing to take the hit?

You can find Arcade models online for $150-170 if you look around. Why wait? Also, I'd get a 20GB HDD, there's alot of stuff I have on mine that you wouldn't think of.

If you can find an Arcade for 150-170 you could buy the 60GB HDD bundle from Amazon--it's currently $85 and comes with three months of Xbox Live, a headset and an ethernet cable. Better deal than buying a 60GB Pro.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
I would strongly reccomend getting an Elite over an Arcade. You will end up paying about the same or more if you piece it out.

Only if the Elite is a Jasper which requires hunting since Falcon Elites are still intermingled with Jasper Elites. All Arcades, however, are Jasper now.

 

[Kabob]

I bought my arcade for $150, bought a 60GB HDD off of ebay for $50, so essentially $200 for my setup. HDMI cable was $4 on monoprice, already had a headset but they're pretty cheap as well.

Unless you plan on installing a TON of games I think that 120GB is overkill.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Only if the Elite is a Jasper

Good point, can't you assure that by making sure it does not come with HDMI cables?

Unless you plan on installing a TON of games I think that 120GB is overkill.

A few demos here and there, bunch of save files, a few HD movies, it adds up quick

 

[bucwylde23]

Originally posted by: kabob983
I bought my arcade for $150, bought a 60GB HDD off of ebay for $50, so essentially $200 for my setup. HDMI cable was $4 on monoprice, already had a headset but they're pretty cheap as well.

Unless you plan on installing a TON of games I think that 120GB is overkill.

With as much trouble as I'm having with the 20 GB drive i dont doubt that I could fill up the 60 GB drive pretty easily.

That's why I'm going to get an elite this Sunday if I can get one with the extra controller at target.

 

[Kabob]

Really? I've got 3 installed full games (CoD 4, GoW 2, Assassin's Creed), maybe 8 or so XBLA games (including several that are quite large like Shadow Complex) and a few vids and I've got 32 GB or so left.

Then again I don't put all my games on it at once.