I suppose this guy would be called racist wouldn't he? Even though he is DEAD ON.

[woolfe9999]

Imagine the uproar if you called building a church near a school"offensive" because of molestation by priests. Those Christians would be up in arms calling you a bigot. It would be unthinkable to imply that all Christians were responsible.

They could call me a bigot all they like. I have been called a bigot against Christianity in past discussions, and it was as incorrect then as it would be in your hypothetical. This isn't about "implying that all Christians were responsible." It's that the symbolism of building a mosque at a place where 3,000 were murdered in the name of Islam, and recently, is offensive, and most particularly to families of the victims. You are thinking far too literally here I'm afraid. Your simple equation is, if one doesn't want a mosque in a particular place, one must just dislike Islam and all Muslims. You need to think instead about the symbolism of a public act and the effects it can have on people. Why do you think memorials are often built at the site of mass death? It's just a bunch of rocks, right? Because symbolism matters to people.

Personally, if I was a Muslim myself, I very much would not want a mosque built there, because it only reinforces the connection between the religion and that terrorist act, a connection I would certainly not want being emphasized. It would be like building a synagogue right next to the mosque where Baruch Goldstein massacred Muslims. Can you imagine the insensitivity of that. THAT, unlike Flavio's riduculous comparisons, is actually a pretty good analogy.

Look, the symbolism of doing this is bad for the victims families and bad for Islam. It's an idiotic thing to do.

- wolf

 

[Throckmorton]

They could call me a bigot all they like. I have been called a bigot against Christianity in past discussions, and it was as incorrect then as it would be in your hypothetical. This isn't about "implying that all Christians were responsible." It's that the symbolism of building a mosque at a place where 3,000 were murdered in the name of Islam, and recently, is offensive, and most particularly to families of the victims. You are thinking far too literally here I'm afraid. Your simple equation is, if one doesn't want a mosque in a particular place, one must just dislike Islam and all Muslims. You need to think instead about the symbolism of a public act and the effects it can have on people. Why do you think memorials are often built at the site of mass death? It's just a bunch of rocks, right? Because symbolism matters to people.

Personally, if I was a Muslim myself, I very much would not want a mosque built there, because it only reinforces the connection between the religion and that terrorist act, a connection I would certainly not want being emphasized. It would be like building a synagogue right next to the mosque where Baruch Goldstein massacred Muslims. Can you imagine the insensitivity of that. THAT, unlike Flavio's riduculous comparisons, is actually a pretty good analogy.

Look, the symbolism of doing this is bad for the victims families and bad for Islam. It's an idiotic thing to do.

- wolf

What about the symbolism of banning the building of a mosque near ground zero?

 

[Doboji]

According to many, but I disagree based on both the etymology and the history of the term. Are you familiar with that history?:


Put simply, bigotry against Arabs and such was just as much anti-Semitic as bigotry against Jews from the start, though of course Jews were the primary focus of it since there were hardly any other Semitic people in Europe other than Jews.

Are you autistic? Because you seem like you are.... you can't seem to grasp concepts beyond the literal. To reiterate... yes we all agree... the literal term anti-semitic refers to being against all semitic peoples. However... the modern usage of the term refers to expressing hatred or discrimination agains the Jewish people. Attempting to force the linguistic correction on society at this point is just an attempt to reduce the impact of the term.

It's similar to how people claim it's an overused term, used against people who disagree with Israel. I keep hearing that, and yet I really don't see too many examples of people throwing around the anti-semitic term for that purpose.... perhaps someone could share some examples with me? Because I suspect that as well is an attempt to diminish the impact of the term.

 

[Doboji]

What about the symbolism of banning the building of a mosque near ground zero?

How about we ban building ANY religious building there... and instead erect a museum of religious tolerance or something... hows that sound?

 

[Throckmorton]

How about we ban building ANY religious building there... and instead erect a museum of religious tolerance or something... hows that sound?

Why don't we ban all religion?

 

[flavio]

Why don't we ban all religion?

I vote yes.

 

[kylebisme]

...you can't seem to grasp concepts beyond the literal.

Rather, I reject concepts which contradict the literal. That's the same reason I take issue with the term "holcaust" being used to refer to genocide. Are you aware of the etymology and origins of that term?

 

[PJABBER]

The point of building a mosque at Ground Zero is not as some expression of freedom of religion or "moderate" Islam's expression of respect for those killed in Islam's name while Muslims worldwide danced in the streets in celebration.

It is an expression of Islam's intent to dominate the world. It is meant as the ultimate propaganda tool, where all Muslims can come to pray for the destruction of Western culture and civilization at the site of one of the most successful attacks against the unbelievers of Western civilization in recent times.

The so called "Cordoba House" derives its name from the Great Mosque of Cordoba, which was hailed as one of the greatest monuments to the Islamic invasion of southern Europe, the farthest the Muslims went in trying to conquer Western civilization, and a celebration of Islamic theocratic military conquest.

The 9/11 attacks were made in the name of Islam by fanatical Muslims. That they happened to indulge in strip shows and alcohol in no way obviates their intent to kill as many American unbelievers as possible in the name of Islam. According to sharia, it is permissible to lie, to deceive, to indulge in apostate practices so long as the intent is to do so for the purpose of destroying the enemies of Islam.

Sharia is the ultimate expression of the ends justifying the means, and all statements made by practitioners of sharia must be examined for what they term "necessary and required deception." Everybody knows this. Though it does seem the ignorant are willing to ignore this inconvenient fact.

 

[sandorski]

It's not "at" Ground Zero.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

It's not "at" Ground Zero.

yeah, it's across the street. just as bad.

 

[Moonbeam]

This post is retarded.

I don't know. I have to give you some points for an accurate description of your post.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

That's right. No churches should be allowed to be built near where the abortion doc was shot either.

If anything, these terrorists have taught us to be intolerant of all whether or no the people creating the building have anything to do with crime.

White man kills someone? No white man should be able to build withing 10 square miles.

You are fucking moron that latches onto the race card at any moment if it serves your needs. Despite the fact that many people of color died in 9/11 you go on to insult them by creating this post. In fact the truth of the matter is you don't care anything about those "brown" people because they are just tools to be used for you message of filth.

 

[flavio]

The point of building a mosque at Ground Zero is not as some expression of freedom of religion or "moderate" Islam's expression of respect for those killed in Islam's name while Muslims worldwide danced in the streets in celebration.

Any source showing most Muslims worldwide celebrated would be appropriate as all indications are that the vast majority were appalled.

It is an expression of Islam's intent to dominate the world. It is meant as the ultimate propaganda tool, where all Muslims can come to pray for the destruction of Western culture and civilization at the site of one of the most successful attacks against the unbelievers of Western civilization in recent times.

Citation needed. It appears you just made up this shit.

The 9/11 attacks were made in the name of Islam by fanatical Muslims.

Obviously they don't represent all Muslim or the Muslims building this mosque anymore than the abortion doc killer represents all Christians.

 

[flavio]

You are fucking moron that latches onto the race card at any moment if it serves your needs. Despite the fact that many people of color died in 9/11 you go on to insult them by creating this post. In fact the truth of the matter is you don't care anything about those "brown" people because they are just tools to be used for you message of filth.

You are a child with nothing to say except trolling tantrums. I did not insult any people of color in any way.

This also makes you a liar.

 

[sandorski]

yeah, it's across the street. just as bad.

It's not across the Street either. If you gotta fudge the details to make a point, it's likely because you had no point to make in the first place.

 

[kylebisme]

yeah, it's across the street.

No, it's two city blocks away.

 

[woolfe9999]

What about the symbolism of banning the building of a mosque near ground zero?

It might piss off some Muslims, but I'd rather piss off some people who did not lose family members than upset those who did. And it's better for Muslims anyway. The symbolism of building a mosque there is not good for the Muslim community. The intent of it is not going to be perceived well. The youtube speaker's understanding of the intent may not actually be accurate, but that is likely to be the perception on the part of many people, and perception does matter.

- wolf

 

[kylebisme]

It might piss off some Muslims, but I'd rather piss off some people who did not lose family members than upset those who did.

Many Muslims have lost family members as a result of our misguided response to 9/11.

 

[Screech]

Many Muslims have lost family members as a result of our misguided response to 9/11.

Exactly! So when the American flag was placed on the statue of Saddam Hussein before it was pulled down, this stirred some anger and the military then realized this was a bad idea, and took it down.

Thank you for finally agreeing with what Wolf was trying to say.

Personally, I don't really care, but I can see why it isn't the brightest of ideas.

 

[Throckmorton]

Exactly! So when the American flag was placed on the statue of Saddam Hussein before it was pulled down, this stirred some anger and the military then realized this was a bad idea, and took it down.

Thank you for finally agreeing with what Wolf was trying to say.

Personally, I don't really care, but I can see why it isn't the brightest of ideas.

It was a bad idea because we aren't conquerors.

 

[Atreus21]

I don't at all side with Condell's atheism, but very frequently he and I align politically. He absolutely nailed this issue to the wall.

 

[Screech]

It was a bad idea because we aren't conquerors.

Arguably, more so because we don't want to be seen as conquerers. (or western imperialists.....evil infidels....etc.....)

That's the point here -- regardless of what the mosque supporters are going for, how will this be perceived? Probably by a lot of victims' family's as a big middle finger, regardless of what it is really supposed to mean. You can argue that the American flag on the Saddam statue was meant to symbolize freedom, but it definitely didn't quite come off that way. Why should we assume that a mosque near ground zero would come off any better?

 

[werepossum]

Arguably, more so because we don't want to be seen as conquerers. (or western imperialists.....evil infidels....etc.....)

That's the point here -- regardless of what the mosque supporters are going for, how will this be perceived? Probably by a lot of victims' family's as a big middle finger, regardless of what it is really supposed to mean. You can argue that the American flag on the Saddam statue was meant to symbolize freedom, but it definitely didn't quite come off that way. Why should we assume that a mosque near ground zero would come off any better?

Difference is that the people building the mosque WANT to be seen as conquerors, spreading Islam and Sharia like cancer throughout the Great Satan until the whole world is ass-up at prayer and honor killings preserve family "honor". (Although arguably these people would stop short of honor killings and beheadings of infidels - maybe.)

There is not however a good way of stopping this mosque from being built, as offensive as it is. There is no Constitutional right to not be offended, even with just cause.

 

[sandorski]

Difference is that the people building the mosque WANT to be seen as conquerors, spreading Islam and Sharia like cancer throughout the Great Satan until the whole world is ass-up at prayer and honor killings preserve family "honor". (Although arguably these people would stop short of honor killings and beheadings of infidels - maybe.)

There is not however a good way of stopping this mosque from being built, as offensive as it is. There is no Constitutional right to not be offended, even with just cause.

...and you want to be seen as a raving lunatic. Mission accomplished.

 

[bfdd]

What does being of a certain religion have to do with some other people building a building that had nothing to do with a crime.

Makes about as much sense as preventing white people from building near where any crime a white person has committed. Or preventing christian churches being built near where the abortion doc was built.

Why are there so many dumbass bigots like you on this board?

The people building the mosque committed no crime. You are proposing illegal discrimination.

Because the crimes committed were in the name of that religion, see the fucking difference?

Also, what does race have to do with religion? Stop bringing up anything to do with race. Your Christian comparison is the only one you've made that would be comparable to this one and again what would make you assume ANYONE who has a problem with this would NOT have a problem with a church being constructed on the site where an abortion doctor was shot? You must really like looking like an idiot in front of strangers.