I suppose this guy would be called racist wouldn't he? Even though he is DEAD ON.

[umbrella39]

The points made in this vid need to be said LOUDER apparently....I guess the liberal/Islam?loonies here on ATPN would call me "racist" but I don't give a fuck. Enjoy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWTxAkkWSc

There was already a topic about this. Who the fuck cares what this guy or you for that matter thinks?

 

[flavio]

why are there so many morons like you on this board? what does being white or brown or anything have to do with building a religious symbol/building where a fanatical sect of said religion caused mayhem and destruction?

What does being of a certain religion have to do with some other people building a building that had nothing to do with a crime.

Makes about as much sense as preventing white people from building near where any crime a white person has committed. Or preventing christian churches being built near where the abortion doc was built.

Why are there so many dumbass bigots like you on this board?

The people building the mosque committed no crime. You are proposing illegal discrimination.

 

[Perknose]

I don't agree. Those towers were taken down by radical Muslims and in it's place a symbol of Islam is erected? Fuck that.

+1

While I agree with him that building a Mosque on ground zero is incredibly stupid... His assertion that "Islam" perpetrated the act of terrorism is equally stupid.

Also agreed.

 

[kylebisme]

They call anyone racist... even though islam is not a race.

Sure, like many slander Helen Thomas as if she were an anti-Semite, even though she is a Semite.

 

[kylebisme]

I don't agree. Those towers were taken down by radical Muslims and in it's place a symbol of Islam is erected? Fuck that.

Fuck that lame propaganda story. Even if you insist on ignoring the laws of physics to pretend the buildings weren't rigged to come down; the Arabs involved were into cocaine and strippers, not Islam.

 

[Doboji]

Sure, like many slander Helen Thomas as if she were an anti-Semite, even though she is a Semite.

anti-semitism is a term used to describe hatred and prejudice towards the jewish people... I understand that the literal translation means "against semites", but that is irrelevant to it's ACTUAL meaning. Just like the term "homophobic" literally means to be "afraid of sameness"... we all know it means to be afraid of gay people.

So are we done playing semantic games now?

 

[Moonbeam]

In recent months Red has been making more and more sense. I think he is breaking from his past "progressive" views, although I dont think he wants to admit it.

Hehe! Man are you insightful. Breaking with his progressive views.... that's a good one. Hahahaha say something you like and you're a genius; say something you don't and one's a fool. Get real.

 

[woolfe9999]

What does being of a certain religion have to do with some other people building a building that had nothing to do with a crime.

Makes about as much sense as preventing white people from building near where any crime a white person has committed. Or preventing christian churches being built near where the abortion doc was built.

Why are there so many dumbass bigots like you on this board?

The people building the mosque committed no crime. You are proposing illegal discrimination.

I'm afraid your analogy fails miserably. In your hypothetical you didn't state whether the white person who did the killing did so in the name of "white people." The people who perpetrated 9/11 were not just Muslims; they did what they did in the name of Islam. These were not just people who happened to be Muslims; their religion was central to the act they committed, and was understood as such by the world at large. That doesn't make all Muslims responsible for the act, but it links the religion to the killings in a way that makes the symbolism of building a mosque at ground zero very offensive. I don't agree with all the speaker's generalizations about Muslims. However, I do agree that building a Mosque there is insenstive and inappropriate.

- wolf

 

[flavio]

I'm afraid your analogy fails miserably. In your hypothetical you didn't state whether the white person who did the killing did so in the name of "white people." The people who perpetrated 9/11 were not just Muslims; they did what they did in the name of Islam.

Since they don't represent all muslims this is irrelevant. Just like the christian witch hunts don't represent all christians.

These were not just people who happened to be Muslims; their religion was central to the act they committed, and was understood as such by the world at large. That doesn't make all Muslims responsible for the act, but it links the religion to the killings in a way that makes the symbolism of building a mosque at ground zero very offensive.

So you would be against building any christian churches near where the abortion doc was killed.

I don't agree with all the speaker's generalizations about Muslims. However, I do agree that building a Mosque there is insenstive and inappropriate.

Only if you're a bigot and are against the 1st Amendment.

 

[cumhail]

I'm afraid your analogy fails miserably. In your hypothetical you didn't state whether the white person who did the killing did so in the name of "white people." The people who perpetrated 9/11 were not just Muslims; they did what they did in the name of Islam. These were not just people who happened to be Muslims; their religion was central to the act they committed, and was understood as such by the world at large. That doesn't make all Muslims responsible for the act, but it links the religion to the killings in a way that makes the symbolism of building a mosque at ground zero very offensive. I don't agree with all the speaker's generalizations about Muslims. However, I do agree that building a Mosque there is insenstive and inappropriate.

- wolf

David Berkowitz said he killed people on the orders of his neighbor's black lab. Does that make the dog responsible or was Berkowitz just friggin' crazy?

 

[woolfe9999]

Since they don't represent all muslims this is irrelevant. Just like the christian witch hunts don't represent all christians.



So you would be against building any christian churches near where the abortion doc was killed.



Only if you're a bigot and are against the 1st Amendment.

I absolutely, positively *would* be against building a Christian church where an abortion doc was killed. I am against building Christian churches on the site of Christian slaughters of non-Christians or committed in the name of Christianity. The symbolism of it is offensive to the victims. What that has to do with bigotry or the First Amendment is beyond me. The First Amendment has nothing to do with where you can construct buildings.

- wolf

 

[kylebisme]

anti-semitism is a term used to describe hatred and prejudice towards the jewish people...

By many it is, but only by ingoring the origins of the term, bigotedly denying other people's rightful place as Semites. It's much like the same nonsense of branding opponents of US government policy as anti-American, even those of us who are Americans. In that regard, "Judeophobia" is a far more accurate term for describing hatred and prejudice towards the jewish people sepcificly.

Furthermore, the term "racism" is based on the notion that humanity can be defined as a collection of different races, which is nothing more than pseudoscientific nonsense.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I don't agree. Those towers were taken down by radical Muslims and in it's place a symbol of Islam is erected? Fuck that.

wow, a red dawn statement i can agree with.
you don't hate america as much as i thought you did.

 

[kylebisme]

These were not just people who happened to be Muslims; their religion was central to the act they committed, and was understood as such by the world at large.

They were people who didn't act like Muslims at all. See this interview with Mohamed Atta's girlfriend for more info. Considering such facts, would you protest bars and strip clubs near Ground Zero?

 

[Doboji]

By many it is, but only by ingoring the origins of the term, bigotedly denying other people's rightful place as Semites. It's much like the same nonsense of branding opponents of US government policy as anti-American, even those of us who are Americans. In that regard, "Judeophobia" is a far more accurate term for describing hatred and prejudice towards the jewish people sepcificly.

Furthermore, the term "racism" is based on the notion that humanity can be defined as a collection of different races, which is nothing more than pseudoscientific nonsense.

I actually agree with you from a linguistics perspective... Judeophobia would be better, much more specific. However it is what it is... anti-semitism means judeophobia... and arguing about the linguistic value of the term at this point is more an attempt to defuse the impact of the word than about being linguistically pure.

The term "Racism" when used in most contexts does not refer to the notion that humanity can be defined by a collection of different races... the term racism refers to the act or philosphy which discriminates, hates or prejudges people based on the notion that humanity can be defined as a collection of different races, which as you say is nothing more than pseudoscientific nonsense.

 

[flavio]

I absolutely, positively *would* be against building a Christian church where an abortion doc was killed.

Since he was killed in a church should we tear it down?

What that has to do with bigotry or the First Amendment is beyond me. The First Amendment has nothing to do with where you can construct buildings.

!st Amendment forbids impeding the free exercise of religion. Please link to law prohibiting this building if there is one.

 

[Doboji]

Frankly I think building ANY massive religious structure over the site of a religiously motivated terrorist attack is asinine.

 

[Genx87]

David Berkowitz said he killed people on the orders of his neighbor's black lab. Does that make the dog responsible or was Berkowitz just friggin' crazy?

I'd say he was a sociopath. Which makes him fit right in with these Islamic cranks.

 

[Throckmorton]

I'm no fan of Islam but it seems to me that "letting" people build a mosque near a site where we were attacked by members of that religion is a testament to our openness and freedom. When we infringe on religious freedom because right-wing extremist members of that religion attacked us, that's when the terrorists win and rule of secular Western law loses.

For 7 years George Bush kept saying "Islam is not our enemy", for 1.5 years Barack Obama has been saying "Islam is not our enemy". Now you rightwingers + Red Dawn want to tell those Muslims and Muslims all over the world "Islam is our enemy, we blame all of you for 9/11 and find it offensive that you would erect a place of worship near the place that all of you attacked us". Are you insane?

If they actually are right-wing fundamentalist Muslims, we should monitor the hell out of them, and at least we'll know where they are.

 

[Genx87]

They were people who didn't act like Muslims at all. See this interview with Mohamed Atta's girlfriend for more info. Considering such facts, would you protest bars and strip clubs near Ground Zero?

Why would they fly airplanes into buildings in the name of Islam? I dont really understand your point on how they acted before they killed thousands. Most people like this have little regard for personal habits while trying to make a statement or force others to follow their ideals. See Al Gore.

 

[woolfe9999]

Since he was killed in a church should we tear it down?



!st Amendment forbids impeding the free exercise of religion. Please link to law prohibiting this building if there is one.

Did I say there was a law against building one? I said I find the act of building one at ground zero offensive; I didn't say it's against the law. The government can regulate where buildings can be built, be they religious buildings or not, and I believe this does not impicate the First Amendment. However, it's not relevant either way because I never said there is a law against building a mosque there or even that there should be, so why are you asking me to produce one? It is an irrelevant distraction and a straw man. This is an ethical issue, not a legal one.

But if you really want to bring the First Amendment into this, I will point out that the First Amendment also protects all manner of offensive speech, but that doesn't make the speech any less offensive, and doesn't mean that others don't have the right to vehemently disagree with it. Building a mosque at ground zero is an offensive act. The families of the victims don't want to be reminded of the religion in whose name their loved ones were killed. It is pissing on the dead and their families, and quite frankly, I think you are an asshole for defending it. That's MY First Amendment protected opinion. And no, asshole, I don't want a church torn down that was already there. Not only is it existing, private property, but particularly in that case it was the church of the man who was killed. It would serve you well to not draw analogies to real world situations that are different in important ways.

- wolf

 

[nick1985]

I'm no fan of Islam but it seems to me that "letting" people build a mosque near a site where we were attacked by members of that religion is a testament to our openness and freedom. When we infringe on religious freedom because right-wing extremist members of that religion attacked us, that's when the terrorists win.

For 7 years George Bush kept saying "Islam is not our enemy", for 1.5 years Barack Obama has been saying "Islam is not our enemy". Now you rightwingers + Red Dawn want to tell those Muslims and Muslims all over the world "Islam is our enemy". Are you insane?

This post is retarded.

 

[flavio]

Did I say there was a law against building one? I said I find the act of building one at ground zero offensive; I didn't say it's against the law. The government can regulate where buildings can be built, be they religious buildings or not, and this does not impicate the first amendment. However, I never said there is a law against building a mosque there. This is an ethical issue, not a legal one. But even supposing the First Amendment meant that they have an absolute right to build a mosque in this particular location, that doesn't make it the right thing to do. The First Amendment also protects all manner of offensive speech, but that doesn't make the speech any less offensive, and doesn't mean that others don't have the right to vehemently disagree with it.

Good then, nothing illegal. Just bigotry against it.

 

[Throckmorton]

Did I say there was a law against building one? I said I find the act of building one at ground zero offensive; I didn't say it's against the law. The government can regulate where buildings can be built, be they religious buildings or not, and this does not impicate the first amendment. However, I never said there is a law against building a mosque there. This is an ethical issue, not a legal one. But even supposing the First Amendment meant that they have an absolute right to build a mosque in this particular location, that doesn't make it the right thing to do. The First Amendment also protects all manner of offensive speech, but that doesn't make the speech any less offensive, and doesn't mean that others don't have the right to vehemently disagree with it.

Please quit straw manning.

- wolf

Imagine the uproar if you called building a church near a school"offensive" because of molestation by priests. Those Christians would be up in arms calling you a bigot. It would be unthinkable to imply that all Christians were responsible.

 

[kylebisme]

...anti-semitism means judeophobia...

According to many, but I disagree based on both the etymology and the history of the term. Are you familiar with that history?:

The word antisemitic (antisemitisch in German) was probably first used in 1860 by the Austrian Jewish scholar Moritz Steinschneider in the phrase "antisemitic prejudices" (German: "antisemitische Vorurteile"). Steinschneider used this phrase to characterize Ernest Renan's ideas about how "Semitic races" were inferior to "Aryan races."

Put simply, bigotry against Arabs and such was just as much anti-Semitic as bigotry against Jews from the start, though of course Jews were the primary focus of it since there were hardly any other Semitic people in Europe other than Jews at that time.

Why would they fly airplanes into buildings in the name of Islam?

What leads you to believe their motives had anything to do with Islam at all? I've never seen any solid evidence to support that notion, and rather plenty to suggest otherwise.