I saw Sicko from Michael Moore Yesterday..

imported_cinder

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Sep 19, 2006
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With voting season already here I decided it was time for me to get some information on national health care or at least try to see multiple viewpoints of national health care. I know this movie is old news for many of you but thanks in advance for responding.

I feel that in order to make a good argument you must show both sides. I feel this film did not do that. It seems as if Michael Moore left out many great things in our health care system but made it a point to display it's shortcomings. He also interviews many people who take advantage of a national health care system. Each of them with good experiences, yet there are no bad experiences. Somehow that is hard to believe. As the editor, Moore takes advantage of the audience by only presenting information on his view. I understand that Sicko is a documentary and not necessarily arguing anything, but simply showing his viewpoint on health care and what national health care could do for us from specific situations.

The last statement leaves me with a question. Is there a documentary like "Sicko" but showing the downsides to national health care or even both sides?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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You would probably need to search international films for that; maybe there is a Canadian or British film about national health care?
 

Exterous

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Jun 20, 2006
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Originally posted by: cinder
With voting season already here I decided it was time for me to get some information on national health care or at least try to see multiple viewpoints of national health care. I know this movie is old news for many of you but thanks in advance for responding.

I feel that in order to make a good argument you must show both sides. I feel this film did not do that. It seems as if Michael Moore left out many great things in our health care system but made it a point to display it's shortcomings. He also interviews many people who take advantage of a national health care system. Each of them with good experiences from yet there are no bad experiences. Somehow that is hard to believe. As the editor, Moore takes advantage of the audience by only presenting information on his view. I understand that Sicko is a documentary and not necessarily arguing anything, but simply showing his viewpoint on health care and what national health care could do for us from specific situations.

The last statement leaves me with a question. Is there a documentary like "Sicko" but showing the downsides to national health care or even both sides?
Sounds like a typical michale moore film - vastly skewed to one side
 

imported_cinder

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Sep 19, 2006
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Yeah I knew it would be going into the film. Thats why I would like to find other viewpoints to make myself more aware on the issue.
 

sandorski

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Oct 10, 1999
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Not sure about Documentaries, but there have been a number of Investigative reports into Faults and Successes of numerous systems. Especially here in Canada where we've been talking about re-organizing Healthcare for years now.
 

Exterous

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Jun 20, 2006
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Not sure about Documentaries, but there have been a number of Investigative reports into Faults and Successes of numerous systems. Especially here in Canada where we've been talking about re-organizing Healthcare for years now.
Do you have some links available?
 
Apr 17, 2003
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Originally posted by: Exterous
Originally posted by: cinder
With voting season already here I decided it was time for me to get some information on national health care or at least try to see multiple viewpoints of national health care. I know this movie is old news for many of you but thanks in advance for responding.

I feel that in order to make a good argument you must show both sides. I feel this film did not do that. It seems as if Michael Moore left out many great things in our health care system but made it a point to display it's shortcomings. He also interviews many people who take advantage of a national health care system. Each of them with good experiences from yet there are no bad experiences. Somehow that is hard to believe. As the editor, Moore takes advantage of the audience by only presenting information on his view. I understand that Sicko is a documentary and not necessarily arguing anything, but simply showing his viewpoint on health care and what national health care could do for us from specific situations.

The last statement leaves me with a question. Is there a documentary like "Sicko" but showing the downsides to national health care or even both sides?
Sounds like a typical michale moore film - vastly skewed to one side
I'm not a MM fan, but Sicko was better than Bowling and Fahrenheit as far as bias.
 

Scouzer

Lifer
Jun 3, 2001
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Here in Alberta, we have a sort of private-public thing going on.

It's totally taxpayer paid, but most any health care facility you visit (except for hospitals) is privately owned and run. The government reimburses the clinic for every patient received.

How much you think the government pays for 15 minutes with a GP? $28.00

Yet the standard run of the mill GP still makes well over $100k. Sounds like everyone wins for me.

This is different than any of the other provinces AFAIK, they still run the old fashioned government owns everything approach. They aren't as efficient.

I'd never, ever trade public health care for even a slightly more privately funded system. I'm very happy and confident with Canadian health care.
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
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The funny thing is... Michael Moore is not for a nationalized, socialized medicine for the United State... He touts the benefits of most European systems... but has said on multiple occasions that the US wouldn't let it work...

wow... eww.... I just defended Michael Moore... I think I need to shower...
 

Noobtastic

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Jul 9, 2005
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Far from truthful.

According to the wonderful internet, he was chauffeured by some state-public relations officers to the most respected and well-equipped hospitals and health agencies. In reality, Cuba suffers under one of the most extreme and poorly managed health services in central America.


 
Apr 17, 2003
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Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Far from truthful.

According to the wonderful internet, he was chauffeured by some state-public relations officers to the most respected and well-equipped hospitals and health agencies. In reality, Cuba suffers under one of the most extreme and poorly managed health services in central America.
Yet the WHO ranks cuba @ 39, only 2 slots behind the US

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
 

Noobtastic

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Jul 9, 2005
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Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Far from truthful.

According to the wonderful internet, he was chauffeured by some state-public relations officers to the most respected and well-equipped hospitals and health agencies. In reality, Cuba suffers under one of the most extreme and poorly managed health services in central America.
Yet the WHO ranks cuba @ 39, only 2 slots behind the US

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Yeah, that's a load of crap. Cuba won't let any foreign agency take a peak at their REAL health care system.

It's complete and utter garbage.

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Far from truthful.

According to the wonderful internet, he was chauffeured by some state-public relations officers to the most respected and well-equipped hospitals and health agencies. In reality, Cuba suffers under one of the most extreme and poorly managed health services in central America.
Why resort to comparisons with Cuba? Are you trying a little too hard to make the US look good? Pick a modern "western" nation (they all rank higher than the USA at 37):

1 France
2 Italy
6 Singapore
7 Spain
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
23 Sweden
25 Germany
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
34 Denmark
 
Apr 17, 2003
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Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Far from truthful.

According to the wonderful internet, he was chauffeured by some state-public relations officers to the most respected and well-equipped hospitals and health agencies. In reality, Cuba suffers under one of the most extreme and poorly managed health services in central America.
Yet the WHO ranks cuba @ 39, only 2 slots behind the US

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Yeah, that's a load of crap. Cuba won't let any foreign agency take a peak at their REAL health care system.

It's complete and utter garbage.
sorry dude, at this point I have the WHO on one hand and noobtastic's claims on the other. Gotta go with the WHO
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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the problem with mm is that he makes films that are so discreditable he does nothing that helps his supposed side.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
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MICHAEL MOORE IS A LIAR AND A THIEF AND A COMMUNIST AND HE EATS CHILDREN! I RUN A HOT DOG STAND AND HE ORDERED 40 HOT DOGS FROM ME AND ATE THEM IN ONE SITTING LOLOLOLOL

/StandardMichaelMooreResponse

What's great about Sicko is he didn't even show the REALLY deluxe countries in the movie; check out his clip on Youtube regarding Norway's healthcare system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxLag-EXiZk

If you ask anyone who has actually lived in any of the countries that beat us on the WHO's list, you'll always meet verification. I've run into enough Europeans in my dealings with CERN (I'm a grad student in Physics, I've helped run simulations on the FCAL Copper LAr detector and did some work with the Tile Calorimeter) to know that Sicko was spot on when it comes to systems of healthcare across the Atlantic. The US healthcare system is a joke. The people who claim we have the best healthcare either don't know what they're talking about or own stock in a health insurance company.
 

Eeezee

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Jul 23, 2005
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Originally posted by: Safeway
Michael Moore looks like the WoW-addict from the Southpark: WoW episode.
I think they modeled that character off of Michael Moore. It's an uncanny resemblance ;)
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
the problem with mm is that he makes films that are so discreditable he does nothing that helps his supposed side.
just curious, have you seen Sicko?
i've seen every one of his silly films.

the problem is he's like carl rove. he's so disgusting to the other side nothing he says is taken seriously by anyone other than those who've already drank the koolaid. perhaps there are bits of truth, but the lies and distortion make him not much more than an unconvincing propagandist preaching the choir.
 

Eeezee

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Jul 23, 2005
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Originally posted by: sandorski
I didn't have any links as I saw the reports on the News, but a quick Google turned up a few links(although I'm sure more specific Search criteria could find better).

Small chart comparing how a handful of International Systems are Funded

A link describing the French Health Care system
I like that the second article pointed out how much it costs per capita for healthcare in France ($3500, the best healthcare in Europe is also the most expensive) and yet American healthcare costs $6100 per person in the US for the rank of 37th best.

We would never aspire to be like the French though, for some reason a lot of Americans really dislike the French (without having ever given a good reason). And yet they have better healthcare than us.

I like the article, but this quote made me laugh

It's not uncommon to visit a French medical office and see no nonmedical personnel
That's a quadruple negative! :shocked: Translated, it means "It's common to visit a French medical office and see only medical personnel." Whew!
 

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