I really hope this "Metro Look" doesn't catch on

[lxskllr]

Total difference of outlook. None of your examples are important application types to me. My outlook on computing (and many other people) is that a computer is a tool for creating other things that will exist out in the real world, NOT just something I need tools for just for the computer itself. So system monitors, command lines, etc... those are mostly just things for dickering with the computer itself. To me that's a distraction, not a task in and of itself. So my focus isn't on freebies for dickering around with the computer itself (although I like those things at times, because I do love computers and tech) but on tools to do work, that pays me a nice living IE: commercial software.

The terminal isn't just for dicking with the computer itself. It's a generic interface that can be used to manage one computer, or thousands of computers. It works by itself, or in conjunction with other programs without limit to program type. Graphic artists can use it as well as engineers and scientists.

As far as stability goes, I'm typing this on a computer I installed in 2008. I did an in place upgrade in 2010, and it's still going. I haven't had a minute of downtime. With GNU/Linux you have the option of running bleeding edge software. Don't blame the system when that bites you in the ass. When you install something that hasn't existed for a month you can expect occasional problems.

 

[Zaap]

The terminal isn't just for dicking with the computer itself. It's a generic interface that can be used to manage one computer, or thousands of computers. It works by itself, or in conjunction with other programs without limit to program type. Graphic artists can use it as well as engineers and scientists.

CLs are not unique to Linux. If I need one, I'll use one.

Meanwhile, Linux can't do most of the stuff quality commercial applications can do on Windows and Mac. You couldn't do my job for one thing, it requires Final Cut Pro/Adobe CS6/ online/offline support for systems like AVID, and a host of audio/video hardware that Linux has no drivers for and likely never will have.

With GNU/Linux you have the option of running bleeding edge software.

Bleeding edge at what? I posted a list of just the applications I use. (Thousands of others that other people rely on in other industries.) I've yet to see the list of GNUcrap that in any way is as good, does the same tasks as well, let alone better. Still waiting.

Don't blame the system when that bites you in the ass.

I don't use systems that tend to bite the user in the ass, which is one of the reasons I commuted my own sentence with Linux. 🙂 Like I say, there are things I like about it, but OSX certainly, and Windows 7 are more advanced, and have access to far superior commercial applications for real world tasks. I'd be HAPPY if otherwise was true -as I said for competitive reasons- but otherwise simply ISN'T true.

 

[lxskllr]

Bleeding edge at what? I posted a list of just the applications I use. (Thousands of others that other people rely on in other industries.) I've yet to see the list of GNUcrap that in any way is as good, does the same tasks as well, let alone better. Still waiting.

And I haven't seen Wincrap or AppCrap on any kind of serious scientific equipment. Come get me when either can run a 1,000 core system. In fact, come get me when you can run anything other than what you're told to run. Unless you're a megacompany/government, you run the software in the way it's sold to you, and you can't even buy a custom patch.

 

[Zaap]

And I haven't seen Wincrap or AppCrap on any kind of serious scientific equipment.

Such as? Doing what task?

Come get me when either can run a 1,000 core system.

1,000 cores to do WHAT? Again, focus on just 'running a system' but no mention of what you're actually DOING with the damned system.

Come get me when you yourself OWN a 1,000 core system and are actually using it for something productive and profitable. Just crowing on about things you're not are actually doing is pointless. I (and many others) are actually using computers I own to do real tasks for a living using high quality software.

In fact, come get me when you can run anything other than what you're told to run. Unless you're a megacompany/government, you run the software in the way it's sold to you, and you can't even buy a custom patch.

Such a chip on your shoulder. Do you do other things with this make-believe rebel attitude? "I only drive a car the way I want to, not by what actually works or gets me to a place on time!"

You using half-assed GNUcrap software isn't some big rebellion against any company or government or whatever, it's just you using using GNUcrap software. Nothing wrong with that if that's what floats your boat, but drop all this pretense that you're some kind of cutting edge rebel because you use someone else's software to do... whatever it is you do with it.

And buying a custom patch... again... FOR WHAT??! TO DO WHAT? In what application, doing what REAL WORLD task, for whom, and why?

People don't use computers just to run custom f'ing patches just to say they ran a custom f'ing patch. I don't give a flying f about custom patches unless it's doing something that makes a task easier. If it's a custom patch on some half-assed piece of freeware that can't begin to match the quality and usefulness of a good piece of specialized commercial software.. then why the F would I care about "buying a custom patch?"

 

[lxskllr]

Such as? Doing what task?


1,000 cores to do WHAT? Again, focus on just 'running a system' but no mention of what you're actually DOING with the damned system.

Come get me when you yourself OWN a 1,000 core system and are actually using it for something productive and profitable. Just crowing on about things you're not are actually doing is pointless. I (and many others) are actually using computers I own to do real tasks for a living using high quality software.


Such a chip on your shoulder. Do you do other things with this make-believe rebel attitude? "I only drive a car the way I want to, not by what actually works or gets me to a place on time!"

You using half-assed GNUcrap software isn't some big rebellion against any company or government or whatever, it's just you using using GNUcrap software. Nothing wrong with that if that's what floats your boat, but drop all this pretense that you're some kind of cutting edge rebel because you use someone else's software to do... whatever it is you do with it.

And buying a custom patch... again... FOR WHAT??! TO DO WHAT? In what application, doing what REAL WORLD task, for whom, and why?

People don't use computers just to run custom f'ing patches just to say they ran a custom f'ing patch. I don't give a flying f about custom patches unless it's doing something that makes a task easier. If it's a custom patch on some half-assed piece of freeware that can't begin to match the quality and usefulness of a good piece of specialized commercial software.. then why the F would I care about "buying a custom patch?"

Chip on my shoulder?! You're the running your mouth about video editing. I don't think it's possible for me to give less of a shit about video editing. Believe it or not, everyone doesn't use a computer the way you do. In fact, the vast majority of people don't use a computer the way you do. Open your eyes, shut your mouth, and you'll start to understand the use of software that's free to adapt to the individual's need...

 

[Zaap]

Again, more fluff and ZERO substance from you. You're a computing poser, thinking you're making some kind of grand statement against 'da man' by using some crappy free software.

You can't even give a straight answer about what you actually DO with a computer, like that's a trick question!

I'm going to wager a guess... absolutely NOTHING.

 

[lxskllr]

Again, more fluff and ZERO substance from you. You're a computing poser, thinking you're making some kind of grand statement against 'da man' by using some crappy free software.

You can't even give a straight answer about what you actually DO with a computer, like that's a trick question!

I'm going to wager a guess... absolutely NOTHING.

More like I glossed over your substance-less wall of text. What I use a computer for now is routine home user activities. What I used one for previously was engineering. If I had the power in today's free software 20 years ago, I'd have made an Autocad-like program, and transitioned half the office away from Autocad, saving both time and money.

 

[Zaap]

So what's stopping you from making your AutoCAD killer today? Da man?

If you really could do AutoCAD better than autodesk you'd make a fortune. But let me guess, that's probably against your rebel principals or something.

 

[lxskllr]

So what's stopping you from making your AutoCAD killer today? Da man?

If you really could do AutoCAD better than autodesk you'd make a fortune. But let me guess, that's probably against your rebel principals or something.

I didn't say I'd make an Autocad killer. I didn't say one way or the other, but Autocad wasn't the best tool for the job. I'm sure I'd make a decent amount of money if I developed it, but I don't care anymore since I'm not in the business, and I can't think as well as I used to. It's too late to get into any kind of advanced programming.

Using libre software isn't about being a "rebel". It's about using software that respects your rights, and allows changing to suit the individual best. One day when you grow up(hopefully) you'll see beyond the propaganda, and do your own thinking. As for this thread, I'm finished with it. There's nothing left to say.

 

[ControlD]

Again, more fluff and ZERO substance from you. You're a computing poser, thinking you're making some kind of grand statement against 'da man' by using some crappy free software.

You can't even give a straight answer about what you actually DO with a computer, like that's a trick question!

I'm going to wager a guess... absolutely NOTHING.

I think it is going a bit far to refer to Linux as "crappy free software". Linux is perfectly usable for any number of PC related activities such as web browsing, coding, document creation etc. You are simply projecting your usage needs, which are not met by Linux, onto the operating system and concluding it is crap.. That is a very narrow and insulting way of looking at things.

There is also a difference in needs in regards to what you do for a living and what you want for everything else. I make my living using Windows based applications. There is not one single application that I need for my work that is available under OS X. Not one. That does not make OS X "crap" or any other pejorative term you have used in this thread. It just makes it the wrong tool for the job in my case. The same is true for using Linux as a work platform for me. At home however I find that Linux satisfies all of my needs minus the occasional gaming fix which I use Windows for. I don't find the suite of applications I use at home to be lacking for anything nor do I find them to be poorly made.

 

[Zaap]

I think it is going a bit far to refer to Linux as "crappy free software". Linux is perfectly usable for any number of PC related activities such as web browsing, coding, document creation etc. You are simply projecting your usage needs, which are not met by Linux, onto the operating system and concluding it is crap.. That is a very narrow and insulting way of looking at things.

I didn't say Linux was crap. Pay attention if you're going to butt into something. I listed very specific applications and tasks, and asked what the linux equavilents are that are supposedly so superior. I was responding to someone doing what you just accused me of doing- claiming an entire class of applications (commercial)is crap. but offering not one shred of proof of that, or able to tell me what the better alternatives are on Linux. So again, pay attention if you're going to butt in, I shouldn't have to rehash for you. Or is actual reading comprehension a lost art?

I make my living using Windows based applications.

So then all Windows applications aren't crap just because some wanna-be computing 'rebel' insists they are? If you had paid attention to the actual conversation you'd realize you're just adding to my point. It has nothing to do with whatever Mac vs. PC vs. Linux vs. wanna-be computing rebels sticking it to 'da man' nonsense that gets tossed into it.

 

[Mem]

I didn't say Linux was crap. Pay attention if you're going to butt into something. I listed very specific applications and tasks, and asked what the linux equavilents are that are supposedly so superior. I was responding to someone doing what you just accused me of doing- claiming an entire class of applications (commercial)is crap. but offering not one shred of proof of that, or able to tell me what the better alternatives are on Linux. So again, pay attention if you're going to butt in, I shouldn't have to rehash for you. Or is actual reading comprehension a lost art?


So then all Windows applications aren't crap just because some wanna-be computing 'rebel' insists they are? If you had paid attention to the actual conversation you'd realize you're just adding to my point. It has nothing to do with whatever Mac vs. PC vs. Linux vs. wanna-be computing rebels sticking it to 'da man' nonsense that gets tossed into it.

You need to be more polite and not so rude to the other members here, remember manners cost nothing,he has a right to post just like ALL members here do,I suggest you read the forums rules.

Getting back to Linux I find Linux Distro's to be very good in general with a wide range of good software etc...I use Linux on one of my PCs and to be honest I would be using Linux all the time 24/7 if it was not for Windows gaming.

Learning curve I find in Linux is not that high especially if you use say Mint or Ubuntu.

End of the day plenty of choices and software out there.

🙂

 

[ViRGE]

Zaap, lxskllr. The next post out of either of you had better be polite and it had better be about Metro. This is not a Linux usage thread (but please feel free to start one if you'd like).

-ViRGE

 

[ultimatebob]

Yeah, back to the topic at hand.

I think that the Metro interface sucks. Discuss 🙂

 

[postmortemIA]

Yeah, back to the topic at hand.

I think that the Metro interface sucks. Discuss 🙂

There's nice article today at Slashdot about MS fighting with PC makers about who to blame for Windows 8 failure. And microsoft thinks it is PCs makers failure for not making enough touch screen devices 🙄

 

[Mem]

Yeah, back to the topic at hand.

I think that the Metro interface sucks. Discuss 🙂

I spend more time on the old desktop in browser mode or gaming so Metro is not that big a deal to me even when I use it ,however there are plenty of room for improvements and more customization options for the user would be great for Metro,I hope we'll see this in Win9.

Its funny in a way since I've been using Microsoft OS since DOS 6.22 days so have seen plenty of good and bad points and obviously changes along the road,guess I got a thick skin as thay say since it takes a lot to really bother me with regards to Microsoft and their way of doing things.

 

[postmortemIA]

Special - downgrade to Windows 7 for just $125

 

[TheSlamma]

even with touch screen it's just way too clunky compared to the classic start menu. I have given it a try again and again and it just doesn't work. The app store is horrific and many of the apps crash way too much to be useful, so I find myself at the classic desktop 97% of the time because those are the apps that run, the other 3% is the extra time it takes to swipe back to metro, find the app and back out to a real desktop experience.

The split screen is horrid and way too limited, why would anyone own a 27"+ (or 2 or 3) screen(s) and only want a few apps on screen at a time?

Which brings me to touch screen, everyone that spent big money on getting some big real estate (such as 2 X 27" monitors) do you guys sit within touch distance of your monitors? Do you guys want fingerprints all over those beautiful screens? Do we think reaching is very ergonomic? I don't and I think most other people would not. Enthusiasts have been left in the dust with this interface.

MS this was a nice try.. time to reel it in and give us back the option of our start menu.. you can keep metro for the people who want a dedicated touch device, but stop playing along with the PC is dead crap.. it's not and won't be for a long while. These tablet toys will find their way into most homes as complete replacement yes.. but for people who need a Computer as defined as a TOOL and not a TOY.. Metro is not helping us.

 

[Zaap]

There's nice article today at Slashdot about MS fighting with PC makers about who to blame for Windows 8 failure. And microsoft thinks it is PCs makers failure for not making enough touch screen devices 🙄

From one of UI developers in quoted articles from that link:

Windows 8 is optimized for content consumption rather than content production and multitasking. Whereas content consumption can easily be done on other media (tablets and phones), production and multitasking are still best suited for PCs. Windows 8 appears to ignore that.

Perfect summation, the focus of MS's OS's shifting from the use of computers as tools for actual productive tasks, to *ahem* the tech equivalent of navel-lint gazing.

Explains quite a lot actually.

 

[TheSlamma]

From one of UI developers in quoted articles from that link:

Perfect summation, the focus of MS's OS's shifting from the use of computers as tools for actual productive tasks, to *ahem* the tech equivalent of navel-lint gazing.

Explains quite a lot actually.

It's really amazing that billion dollar companies so often make the same mistakes found at some start-up mom and pop shops. So much for this slew of people with degrees in business management.

If this was their plan it astounds me no one in the decision making team said.. 'hey guys how about we make Windows 8 HOME be our consumption product but Windows 8 Pro and Enterprise editions should continue to be an OS for people trying to use a computer as a tool'.

I would be fine with that.. and I would be buying Pro if that was the case.

 

[VivienM]

It's really amazing that billion dollar companies so often make the same mistakes found at some start-up mom and pop shops. So much for this slew of people with degrees in business management.

If this was their plan it astounds me no one in the decision making team said.. 'hey guys how about we make Windows 8 HOME be our consumption product but Windows 8 Pro and Enterprise editions should continue to be an OS for people trying to use a computer as a tool'.

I would be fine with that.. and I would be buying Pro if that was the case.

Except that that defeats the point. The point is to make it look like Metro is the inevitable future of the Windows platform in hope that they can get enough third-party devs to catch up to iOS/Android in touch/tablet land.

And yes, I agree. I'd rather pay $199 or whatever the NORMAL price is for a Windows upgrade and get a keyboard/mouse productivity OS instead of getting this $39 insulting monstrosity.

This is not about money. I'm sure OEMs would be willing to pay more for the Pro keyboard/mouse version (which is what their customers actually want) than the Home consumption version. People who used to pay $199 for a XP/Vista/7 Pro upgrade would have no problem paying the same. But Microsoft's goal isn't to make money: Microsoft's goal is to shove Metro everywhere as quickly as possible in a desperate attempt to slow down the iPad momentum.

(And yes, I understand why the iPad scares them. There are a lot of people like my aunt whose computing needs would be better met by an iPad than a Windows PC. There are also a lot of [forgotten] people who need a PC for serious productivity use. So Redmond's response... is to throw the people who actually need a PC overboard. Genius, isn't it?)

 

[lopri]

This is not about money. I'm sure OEMs would be willing to pay more for the Pro keyboard/mouse version (which is what their customers actually want) than the Home consumption version. People who used to pay $199 for a XP/Vista/7 Pro upgrade would have no problem paying the same. But Microsoft's goal isn't to make money: Microsoft's goal is to shove Metro everywhere as quickly as possible in a desperate attempt to slow down the iPad momentum.

Which sounds very much about.. money? People who used to pay $199 for XP/Vista/7 Pro upgrade are putting that money towards Android/iOS tablets.

 

[lopri]

I mean, I bought my Vista Ultimate license for $400 when it came out. (Thank god I was able to sell it for $300 right before Windows 7 debuted) Do you think anyone today will pay that kind of money for a desktop Windows license? There are even talks of free windows licenses going forward.

 

[cboath]

Except that that defeats the point. The point is to make it look like Metro is the inevitable future of the Windows platform in hope that they can get enough third-party devs to catch up to iOS/Android in touch/tablet land.

And yes, I agree. I'd rather pay $199 or whatever the NORMAL price is for a Windows upgrade and get a keyboard/mouse productivity OS instead of getting this $39 insulting monstrosity.

This is not about money. I'm sure OEMs would be willing to pay more for the Pro keyboard/mouse version (which is what their customers actually want) than the Home consumption version. People who used to pay $199 for a XP/Vista/7 Pro upgrade would have no problem paying the same. But Microsoft's goal isn't to make money: Microsoft's goal is to shove Metro everywhere as quickly as possible in a desperate attempt to slow down the iPad momentum.

(And yes, I understand why the iPad scares them. There are a lot of people like my aunt whose computing needs would be better met by an iPad than a Windows PC. There are also a lot of [forgotten] people who need a PC for serious productivity use. So Redmond's response... is to throw the people who actually need a PC overboard. Genius, isn't it?)

I agree with the first paragraph - i do believe it's a gambit to try and make up the ground between their tablet/phone offerings and apple/android.

The rest....eh....

Was the focus of 8 on touch? No doubt. And no, nothing new was really added for the production environment. But as somoene using it for production I don't see it as any different than 7 to be honest. The only difference I see is clicking on the Desktop tile to get to the desktop. A total waste of 1.5 seconds there. Aside from that, I don't see any usage difference. The only thing really missing from the desktop is 'All Programs' and I never really used it anyhow, plus it's now the start screen. Everything else that 'was' in the start menu is still there in the start menu.

Hopefully they integrate a method to boot straight to the desktop because that'll quiet a lot of angst I think. Then you'd never have to look at metro again if you don't want to.

 

[dagamer34]

I mean, I bought my Vista Ultimate license for $400 when it came out. (Thank god I was able to sell it for $300 right before Windows 7 debuted) Do you think anyone today will pay that kind of money for a desktop Windows license? There are even talks of free windows licenses going forward.

Retail Windows 8 license doesn't exist anymore. Only the System Builder license now.