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I no longer believe in Global Warming.. This video is why.

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Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: homercles337

Holy sheet, just wow! That is complete and utter sh!t. Lies. They probably paid some talking faces to just get up there and lie. I cut it when they had "scientists" doing some kind of "confessional." As if there is a global, conspiracy of lies and intimidation to continue to receive funding for science that they know is wrong. What a load of sh!t. This is called fraud and would result in a complete lack of creditability--a complete career killer (with possible jail time). The ID people are behind this i can tell, since who ever made this does not know what science is, nor do the ID idiots. Meh, continue your stupid politics. Climatology is science, politicization of one facet of that science to discredit it holistically is quite frankly the most dishonest thing any political movement can achieve. Obviously the anti-global warmers, righties, evangelicals, oil barons, wealthy conspicuous consumers, ignorants, and arrogants are a force to be reckoned with. Good job... :thumbsdown:

Youre saying that an MIT professor of atmospheric science has no credibility at all?

Hmm.

Bill Nye the Science Guy and Heidi Cullen are far more credible sources.

Did you see where at least one expert says his meaning was changed in the editing room to mean something he doesn't believe?

Text

Did you see where the news station that aired this guys previous anti-environmental movie had to apologize because he twisted experts beliefs in the editing room for that one too?

From the apology: "Comparison of the unedited and edited transcripts confirmed that the editing of the interviews with [the environmentalists who contributed] had indeed distorted or misrepresented their known views. It was also found that the production company had misled them... as to the format, subject matter and purpose of these programs."
 
Greetings,

Global warming? 1/2 of 1 degree in the last century? That is not 'GLOBAL WARMING'.

It is a political movement that pays the bills for 1000's of people every day. They cash in on it. Just like other causes where we have thrown billions of $'s each year for 30 years and we have no cure. But their sure are alot of groups that make money on that.

To think that the Earth has never changed its overal temp we know is wrong.

The fact that the Arctic is all ice and no land means that if tides change it may freeze more or melt more. When it goes up 10 degrees world wide then call me.

Peace and Blessings.
 
Originally posted by: TehMac
Good for you, I agree the movie is very informational, and very true. As a historian, I have studied and read about climate changes much worse than the one we're going through now. Al Gore is simply a bloody propagandist and he's followed by brain washed penguins.

So, what you are saying is that globabl warming IS REAL.

Thanks.
 
I don't really care whether or not you believe in it, I just don't see what's so bad about reducing the amount of crap we put into the environment. We know of the numerous health concerns with associated with emissions. I think the only one that will remain an issue as long as there is a debate on global warming being real or not will be CO2 though. However, there are steps that can actually naturally reduce CO2 quite easily. Cellulose (not corn) ethanol has a huge decrease in CO2. Biodiesel does as well.
 
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Just like civilizations in times past which have fallen, too many were too optimistic, they thought rapid growth could go on forever, that resources would never run out, that demand for their powerful presence would never wane. History is in the process of repeating itself, but our inability to look at consequences even after our own tiny lifespans prevents many from conceiving of this.

What I find amusing is that one of the cultures with the greatest long term mindset, the Chinese, are among the worst contributors to the global warming problem with their immense and increasing use of coal fired power plants. Guess the USA isn't the only place where short term gains are overruling long term considerations...
 
Originally posted by: homercles337
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: homercles337

Holy sheet, just wow! That is complete and utter sh!t. Lies. They probably paid some talking faces to just get up there and lie. I cut it when they had "scientists" doing some kind of "confessional." As if there is a global, conspiracy of lies and intimidation to continue to receive funding for science that they know is wrong. What a load of sh!t. This is called fraud and would result in a complete lack of creditability--a complete career killer (with possible jail time). The ID people are behind this i can tell, since who ever made this does not know what science is, nor do the ID idiots. Meh, continue your stupid politics. Climatology is science, politicization of one facet of that science to discredit it holistically is quite frankly the most dishonest thing any political movement can achieve. Obviously the anti-global warmers, righties, evangelicals, oil barons, wealthy conspicuous consumers, ignorants, and arrogants are a force to be reckoned with. Good job... :thumbsdown:

Youre saying that an MIT professor of atmospheric science has no credibility at all?

Hmm.

Bill Nye the Science Guy and Heidi Cullen are far more credible sources.

Nice reading comprehension skills you have got there. I said that scientists that lie to gain further funding will have their credibility stripped. Would you ruin your career for no reason? To put "scientists" up there and claim that there is a conspiracy by other scientists to continue to receive funding is slander. Point out what the guy from MIT said (the video was too pixelated to read names/affiliations). If need be, i will walk to his office on monday to clarify his statement which was likely taken out of context. I doubt he would slander himself on a political piece like this.

It's Richard Lindzen, he has spoken many times contesting many global warming fallacies.

In all of the stuff ive seen, he has been hotly contesting the "omg global warming will shut down the gulf stream" and "omg global warming will raise the seas 20 feet" and "omg global warming will turn the world into a giant desert/fireball (runaway global warming) scenarios.

He also directly criticizes the IPCC report conclusions saying they dont match their own data.
 
Originally posted by: AndrewR
What I find amusing is that one of the cultures with the greatest long term mindset, the Chinese, are among the worst contributors to the global warming problem with their immense and increasing use of coal fired power plants. Guess the USA isn't the only place where short term gains are overruling long term considerations...
I think that they'll begin to realize the problem too, or rather I hope they will. Or at least I hope they will. They're in a rapid economic growth spurt, and such growth spurts are periodic things - they are not sustainable in the long run.
Growth like that seems to come on quickly, and everyone assumes it'll just keep its momentum. People get optimistic, too much so. Then the supply is ramped up too much, too quickly, to satisfy the increased demand, demand which is perceived to continue indefinitely. Once it's satiated though, after several years perhaps, then there's a slight recession. It's like an impulsive driver of the market, it moves ahead in pulses instead of at a steady pace. It seems to happen with China, and it happens here. Too much, too fast, or too little, too slowly.

Hopefully China will realize that 1) despite coal being abundant, it still will eventually run out, 2) it pollutes considerably, 3) money can be made off of alternative fuel sources, and 4) reducing emissions isn't only in their best interests.



Originally posted by: Macattak1
Greetings,

Global warming? 1/2 of 1 degree in the last century? That is not 'GLOBAL WARMING'.

It is a political movement that pays the bills for 1000's of people every day. They cash in on it. Just like other causes where we have thrown billions of $'s each year for 30 years and we have no cure. But their sure are alot of groups that make money on that.

To think that the Earth has never changed its overal temp we know is wrong.

The fact that the Arctic is all ice and no land means that if tides change it may freeze more or melt more. When it goes up 10 degrees world wide then call me.

Peace and Blessings.
1 degree Celcius over an entire globe can amount to a significant increase in the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere. The oceans have a surface area of about 139 MILLION square miles. Alright, it's "only" 1 degree. That's a hell of a lot of surface area though, which means a hell of a lot of evaporation.

Doing something about global warming can make people rich, as can not doing anything about it. Keep going on the status quo, and fossil fuel producers and those who use their products will continue to bring in high profits. Or, put more money towards alternatives, and the manufacturers and researchers in those sectors will profit.
I'd sooner play it safe, so that in 50 years, when various oceanic currents are shutting down due to your "10 degree world wide" limit, we don't have to make an abrupt transition to a new, more environmentally friendly lifestyle. If we do it now, make the transition gradually, it will make it much easier.

 
..human induced global warming is the new religion of the neolib's. they've drummed up a load of voodoo science founded on faulty computer models and a frothing at the mouth desire for bigger governmental control thru co2 tax and emission credits racket. Who would listen to algore if he wasen't running around with his award winning fraud flick polished up by his cohorts and cronies in hollywood. The masters of illusion and make believe recycled his goofy slide show into a polished shuck and jive designed to appeal to mindless morons who typically buy into any rejection of established mores. The same bunch fell for the flat earth theory centuries ago.
 
Originally posted by: homercles337
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: homercles337

Holy sheet, just wow! That is complete and utter sh!t. Lies. They probably paid some talking faces to just get up there and lie. I cut it when they had "scientists" doing some kind of "confessional." As if there is a global, conspiracy of lies and intimidation to continue to receive funding for science that they know is wrong. What a load of sh!t. This is called fraud and would result in a complete lack of creditability--a complete career killer (with possible jail time). The ID people are behind this i can tell, since who ever made this does not know what science is, nor do the ID idiots. Meh, continue your stupid politics. Climatology is science, politicization of one facet of that science to discredit it holistically is quite frankly the most dishonest thing any political movement can achieve. Obviously the anti-global warmers, righties, evangelicals, oil barons, wealthy conspicuous consumers, ignorants, and arrogants are a force to be reckoned with. Good job... :thumbsdown:

Youre saying that an MIT professor of atmospheric science has no credibility at all?

Hmm.

Bill Nye the Science Guy and Heidi Cullen are far more credible sources.

Nice reading comprehension skills you have got there. I said that scientists that lie to gain further funding will have their credibility stripped. Would you ruin your career for no reason? To put "scientists" up there and claim that there is a conspiracy by other scientists to continue to receive funding is slander. Point out what the guy from MIT said (the video was too pixelated to read names/affiliations). If need be, i will walk to his office on monday to clarify his statement which was likely taken out of context. I doubt he would slander himself on a political piece like this.

But it's spring break at MIT! 😉
 
I still don't know why they won't launch the DSCOVR satellite...
It's already built. I can measure Earth's albedo and determine once and for all, is there global warming. NASA cancelled the project after it was built. "We have other priorities" like sinking millions (billions) into an orbiting space station that does virtually nothing (except help us learn how to work in harmony with other nations.)

Then again, no news is good news: as long as DSCOVR isn't up there, we can still say this subject is open to debate. (And that's about the only way for 'good news' - send it up, find out what we're actually doing, then we'll feel compelled to do something about it. Don't send it up, and we can bury our heads in the sand and pretend that nothing's going on.

Funny though - in one breath, the naysayers will say there's no global warming going on. Two breaths later, "it's part of a natural cycle." So, is it occurring and it's natural? Or isn't it occurring? Make up your mind!
 
that videos a little controversial, while it does highlight some good points, and does shed light on the whole global warming picture (not just the man made co2 portion) the video doesnt really provide concrete proof as to the cause, just like the man made co2 arguement doesnt. theyre both just theories.

anyway some of the scientist in that film are pretty angry, they feel the director and producer of the film had mislead them and presented their opinions in a way that kinda made them look like they were categorically saying global warming has nothing to do with man

there is a website, http://www.realclimate.org/ on which some of those scientists post blogs and comments

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar...2007/03/swindled-carl-wunsch-responds/

that is carl wunsch's post on the film he was in, he is not happy about the way he was portrayed.

it seems its almost impossible to get a unbiased view on GW, the media either spin it completely to man made CO2, or they spin it all the way to the opposite end. i do believe GW is happening, but whats the cause? i have no idea, there is conflicting reports left right and center, are we to blame? maybe.... but i definately think there is alot more to this cake than just man made CO2.
 
Originally posted by: GrantMeThePower
There was a couple threads in P&N about this movie....its total bogus. Even one of the scientist interviewed later went on air and said that they totally cut his interview in a way that made it seem as if he was saying something he wasn't. Also, the director said he himself believes in global warming and thinks its a problem.

This is just a movie....just as inconvenient truth. REad the real scientific, peer reviewed studies.



:thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: techs
B.S. youtube video versus nearly EVERY peer reviewed climate study?
I guess only the internet brainwashed would believe youtube.

its not really a BS video, its the alternative explanations, theyre all plausible theres just no concrete proof.

the IPCC are not what i'd label reliable either, they've been pulled up for omitting and editing work/reports to skew the message they deliver. just because its peer reviewed doesnt make it right. alot of climate computer models are based on alot of assumptions as well so i wouldnt take them as 100% fact either

alot of the top 2500 scientist arent even scientists, merely associated. despite some scientists work being altered, they never get their names removed from th authors list (one guy actually threatened legal action)

GW is too caught up in politics, power and money, theres alot of influence from those 3 things that could easily sway the outcomes.

if making out like man is the cause of GW gets your research department lots of work and funding....your gonna take it arent you. scientists in the film even admit to dramatising results because thats the only way the press will take note of their work.

im sorry but when theres that much influence on the subject from politicians pushing agenda's, millions of £ in funds and the ability to obtain power and control its hard to believe what is said without question.

i mean a whole industry now rely's solely on the premise that global warming is all our fault, that 1000's of people, jobs, lively hoods etc, they're not gonna want all that security to disappear over night will they? the neccesity is there to prove its mans fault...that way they keep their industry a float.

we have GW officers in local councils, people who get paid to come to your work and tell you your making to much carbon, theres positions at our works for a GW officer much like a H&S officer. i doubt he's gonna want his well paying job to be obliterated over night is he.
 
Swindled: Carl Wunsch responds
Filed under:

* Climate Science
* Climate modelling
* Oceans
* Reporting on climate

? group @ 8:34 am

The following letter from Carl Wunsch is intended to clarify his views on global warming in general, and the The Great Global Warming Swindle which misrepresented them.
Partial Response to the London Channel 4 Film "The Global Warming Swindle"

Carl Wunsch 11 March 2007

I believe that climate change is real, a major threat, and almost surely has a major human-induced component. But I have tried to stay out of the `climate wars' because all nuance tends to be lost, and the distinction between what we know firmly, as scientists, and what we suspect is happening, is so difficult to maintain in the presence of rhetorical excess. In the long run, our credibility as scientists rests on being very careful of, and protective of, our authority and expertise.

The science of climate change remains incomplete. Some elements are so firmly based on well-understood principles, or for which the observational record is so clear, that most scientists would agree that they are almost surely true (adding CO2 to the atmosphere is dangerous; sea level will continue to rise,...). Other elements remain more uncertain, but we as scientists in our roles as informed citizens believe society should be deeply concerned about their possibility: failure of US midwestern precipitation in 100 years in a mega-drought; melting of a large part of the Greenland ice sheet, among many other examples.

I am on record in a number of places complaining about the over-dramatization and unwarranted extrapolation of scientific facts. Thus the notion that the Gulf Stream would or could "shut off" or that with global warming Britain would go into a "new ice age" are either scientifically impossible or so unlikely as to threaten our credibility as a scientific discipline if we proclaim their reality [i.e. see this previous RC post]. They also are huge distractions from more immediate and realistic threats. I've paid more attention to the extreme claims in the literature warning of coming catastrophe, both because I regard the scientists there as more serious, and because I am very sympathetic to the goals of my colleagues who sometimes seem, however, to be confusing their specific scientific knowledge with their worries about the future.

When approached by WAGTV, on behalf of Channel 4, known to me as one of the main UK independent broadcasters, I was led to believe that I would be given an opportunity to explain why I, like some others, find the statements at both extremes of the global change debate distasteful. I am, after all a teacher, and this seemed like a good opportunity to explain why, for example, I thought more attention should be paid to sea level rise, which is ongoing and unstoppable and carries a real threat of acceleration, than to the unsupportable claims that the ocean circulation was undergoing shutdown (Nature, December 2005).

I wanted to explain why observing the ocean was so difficult, and why it is so tricky to predict with any degree of confidence such important climate elements as its heat and carbon storage and transports in 10 or 100 years. I am distrustful of prediction scenarios for details of the ocean circulation that rely on extremely complicated coupled models that run out for decades to thousands of years. The science is not sufficiently mature to say which of the many complex elements of such forecasts are skillful. Nonetheless, and contrary to the impression given in the film, I firmly believe there is a great deal to be learned from models. With effort, all of this is explicable in terms the public can understand.

In the part of the "Swindle" film where I am describing the fact that the ocean tends to expel carbon dioxide where it is warm, and to absorb it where it is cold, my intent was to explain that warming the ocean could be dangerous---because it is such a gigantic reservoir of carbon. By its placement in the film, it appears that I am saying that since carbon dioxide exists in the ocean in such large quantities, human influence must not be very important --- diametrically opposite to the point I was making --- which is that global warming is both real and threatening in many different ways, some unexpected.

Many of us feel an obligation to talk to the media---it's part of our role as scientists, citizens, and educators. The subjects are complicated, and it is easy to be misquoted or quoted out context. My experience in the past is that these things do happen, but usually inadvertently --- most reporters really do want to get it right.

Channel 4 now says they were making a film in a series of "polemics". There is nothing in the communication we had (much of it on the telephone or with the film crew on the day they were in Boston) that suggested they were making a film that was one-sided, anti-educational, and misleading. I took them at face value---clearly a great error. I knew I had no control over the actual content, but it never occurred to me that I was dealing with people who already had a reputation for distortion and exaggeration.

The letter I sent them as soon as I heard about the actual program is below. [available here]

As a society, we need to take out insurance against catastrophe in the same way we take out homeowner's protection against fire. I buy fire insurance, but I also take the precaution of having the wiring in the house checked, keeping the heating system up to date, etc., all the while hoping that I won't need the insurance. Will any of these precautions work? Unexpected things still happen (lightning strike? plumber's torch igniting the woodwork?). How large a fire insurance premium is it worth paying? How much is it worth paying for rewiring the house? $10,000 but perhaps not $100,000? There are no simple answers even at this mundane level.

How much is it worth to society to restrain CO2 emissions --- will that guarantee protection against global warming? Is it sensible to subsidize insurance for people who wish to build in regions strongly susceptible to coastal flooding? These and others are truly complicated questions where often the science is not mature enough give definitive answers, much as we would like to be able to provide them. Scientifically, we can recognize the reality of the threat, and much of what society needs to insure against. Statements of concern do not need to imply that we have all the answers. Channel 4 had an opportunity to elucidate some of this. The outcome is sad.

from the link i posted above
 
We all know about cyclical climate changes. Yes, there are ice ages, and heat ages.

But... Never in Earth's history has there been so much "outside" influence. Carbon from coal power plants and other various exhausts don't worry me nearly as much as CFC release.

Never in history has there been this much CFC in the atmosphere. We know that it deteriorates the atmosphere that protects us from the sun's warming rays.

I'd like to keep our umbrella, even if we don't know for certain the long term effects.
 
I don't believe in global warming because last night, it got colder!

I mean, i know we're coming into winter and all, but i think this proves global warming is a load of bulldust.
 
global warming is real as cyclic weather patterns are real. i just don't buy that man has contributed to it as much as the AlGores are saying.
 
Originally posted by: dug777
I don't believe in global warming because last night, it got colder!

I mean, i know we're coming into winter and all, but i think this proves global warming is a load of bulldust.
winter.. hahaha, sucka!

Spring... glorious Spring here. :heart:
 
Originally posted by: Spoooon
Regardless of whether global warming exists, what's wrong with minimizing the impact we're having on the environment?
:thumbsup:
And reducing our dependence on foreign oil. Maybe even be able to generate all the power for our needs without needing to import it? I think these are all worthwhile goals.

 
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