I need a reason for abortion being legal

[RampantAndroid]

Funny how a woman's body is all about her and her rights, but if she decides to keep the baby against the father's will, he's on the hook supporting her ass for the next 18 years.

Yes. This is a problem here. And the guy cannot decide that he wants to force the mother to abort.

 

[Juddog]

It boils down to this. People are going to do it regardless of law. The thing is that if it became illegal again, a lot of grown ups are going to die from back alley procedures etc. and it will be bad.

So the options are make it legal and prevent adult mortalities and injuries, or make it illegal and drive it into the unsafe zone where people are going to do it regardless.

It's the equivalent of trying to make alcohol illegal, which we saw failed miserably. People have this white tower mentality, without being in the trenches to see how harsh inner city life can really be. I see a great hypocrisy; a lot of Christians want to protect the baby child but care nothing of what the person grows into. The very same people crying out against abortion one day are the same people saying that welfare needs to be trimmed down more while handing out corporate welfare that makes the welfare handed out to individuals look like nothing, and care nothing of waging a war in another country and ruining the lives of people there.

It's sickening, truly sickening, how compartmentalized some peoples minds can be.

 

[CLite]

Funny how a woman's body is all about her and her rights, but if she decides to keep the baby against the father's will, he's on the hook supporting her ass for the next 18 years.

It's funny that you equate financial (and emotional to an extent) consequences to enforced medical procedure consequences.

While I agree there is somewhat of an anti-male bias when determining support settlements, it has nothing to do with the question of controlling a female's medical decisions. I think lawsuits are now coming to rise for enforced sterilization procedures in the past, that's about the only other past law I can think of where we thought we had the right to enforce a medical procedure on a fully functioning adult.

 

[cybrsage]

I guess I can't see past the simple point that a child 5 seconds from birth is eligible to be killed, whereas 5 seconds afterward is bestowed with some magical right to life.

A legal line had to be drawn somewhere, and the current line is drawn at birth. We bestow personhood on the human after that human leaves the mother's body while still alive.

We all agree (I assume we do, since it would be odd not to agree) that the human fetus is alive. The issue is whether that human is given basic human rights before or after birth.

Many states have moved the line backwards to a few weeks before birth, since an abortion after that point involves removing cut up pieces of what obviously looks like a tiny human baby. The human is still not considered a person or a being yet, that is still reserved until birth, but the human is given the right to life at that point.

It is an ongoing debate, and one which will continue as we learn more and more about our own species.

 

[Munky]

It's funny that you equate financial (and emotional to an extent) consequences to enforced medical procedure consequences.

While I agree there is somewhat of an anti-male bias when determining support settlements, it has nothing to do with the question of controlling a female's medical decisions. I think lawsuits are now coming to rise for enforced sterilization procedures in the past, that's about the only other past law I can think of where we thought we had the right to enforce a medical procedure on a fully functioning adult.

So what if it's a medical procedure? As if that somehow makes it more important? I guarantee you that the majority of abortions performed in this country are not because "the woman's life is in danger" but because she simply doesn't want the kid.

 

[alkemyst]

pro-abortion? WTF?!?

it's pro-choice...unless you are adamant about killing every fetus.

 

[Nebor]

I need a reason for abortion being legal

If it weren't, the only way you could kill babies is by joining the military.

 

[Juddog]

If it weren't, the only way you could kill babies is by joining the military.

Which just so happens to be typically supported by the same people that call themselves "pro-life". Funny how things work.

 

[cybrsage]

pro-abortion? WTF?!?

it's pro-choice...unless you are adamant about killing every fetus.

Pro means for or supporting of. If you are for abortions or supporting of abortions, then you are pro abortion. No need to try to run from it, if you (generic you, not personal you) support or are for abortions, then be proud of your stance.

 

[Carmen813]

Pro means for or supporting of. If you are for abortions or supporting of abortions, then you are pro abortion. No need to try to run from it, if you (generic you, not personal you) support or are for abortions, then be proud of your stance.

Sure, I can agree to that. So long as those who are against abortions are okay being called "Pro-Oppression."

 

[momeNt]

Sure, I can agree to that. So long as those who are against abortions are okay being called "Pro-Oppression."

more like pro-whatever life a fetus has is more important than a woman's liberty.

It's a pretty long pro, but that best describes it.

 

[Remobz]

I am for abortions.

Am I going to Hell now?

 

[momeNt]

I am for abortions.

Am I going to Hell now?

You'll find out when your dead if A. Hell exists, and B. people who support abortions do indeed wind up in hell.

It's called pascal's wager, somebody would rather believe in a god and be proven wrong in the event of their death, than go their whole life not believing and be proven wrong.

So maybe a lot of the people who oppose abortion are just using pascal's wager, god is just waiting in heaven being like "dude, it's just a fetus, who cares!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Do you think you are being told what you can and cannot do with your body when you are told you cannot go walking down the street unless you cover your body with clothing?

I know you know it's not the same thing, why you keep arguing that it is is beyond me.

These analogies rarely make sense, if you want a valid analogy, how about someone crawls up your arse and refuses to leave and you can't remove him without killing him, should you be able to?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I am for abortions.

Am I going to Hell now?

Yes, you will go to hell right this second where you'll be tortured for all eternity but god loves you and that is why you'll be tortured.

See, he gave his own son, which was him, to make up for sins the first woman committed because she was lured into temptation by a talking snake and the reason god gave his own son who was himself was so that you could have the free will to condemn yourself to hell by not following something that he himself knew all along you wouldn't follow (since god is omniscient, he knows the end even before creation).

Or perhaps not.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Getting killed by a stray bullet is your own fault for not wearing full body armor at all times.

After skimming this thread, I've decided that it's the best thing ever. It starts out with some serious trolling, goes into overdrive with the claim that rape pregnancies are the victim's fault, and then lures JohnofSheffield and Nemesis1 into a fight to the death. A beautiful thing has happened here.

We worked that out and won't be having a death match, i'm not so sure about others though, i believe there are a whole heap just wanting to get close to me and my awesome body, can't blame them but i am kinda busy atm.

 

[momeNt]

I know you know it's not the same thing, why you keep arguing that it is is beyond me.

These analogies rarely make sense, if you want a valid analogy, how about someone crawls up your arse and refuses to leave and you can't remove him without killing him, should you be able to?

Fetuses aren't refusing to leave indefinitely though, they are just asking you to wait up to about 9 months!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Fetuses aren't refusing to leave indefinitely though, they are just asking you to wait up to about 9 months!

So if someone crawls up your arse and infuses you with hormones and waste while feeding off you then you are ok with that as long as it's for 9 months?

My main argument is and has always been that you cannot kill what is not alive, if you or me had the brain function of a pre week 25 fetus we would be dead and killing us would be IMPOSSIBLE but for some reason when it comes to a fetus it's the taking of a life?

Why aren't you numbskulls out there protesting the taking of lives when braindead patients are harvested for organs or taken off of their life support which happens EVERY SINGLE DAY?

I know why you're not, doing so wouldn't mean you'd get to punish women for having sex, they need to take the consequences for their actions whether it's right or not.

 

[Juddog]

I know you know it's not the same thing, why you keep arguing that it is is beyond me.

These analogies rarely make sense, if you want a valid analogy, how about someone crawls up your arse and refuses to leave and you can't remove him without killing him, should you be able to?

Hahahah wow I know it's not politically correct but you made me spit out soda when I read that!

 

[Kadarin]

I see a great hypocrisy; a lot of Christians want to protect the baby child but care nothing of what the person grows into. The very same people crying out against abortion one day are the same people saying that welfare needs to be trimmed down more while handing out corporate welfare that makes the welfare handed out to individuals look like nothing, and care nothing of waging a war in another country and ruining the lives of people there.

It makes absolutely perfect sense when you realize that it's not about the life and welfare of the child, but instead about enforcing consequences for female sexuality.

 

[Pulsar]

It makes absolutely perfect sense when you realize that it's not about the life and welfare of the child, but instead about enforcing consequences for female sexuality.

Really? And here I thought it was simply a by-product of the bible treating women like second class citizens, telling their children to procreate like rabbits, and an over-inflated sense of hyper-morality that goes along with the belief that everyone who isn't like you is going to be eternally damned.

 

[Muse]

I'm very pro-abortion, but someone pointed out that almost every problem related to unwanted babies can be solved by putting babies up for adoption.
I can't afford to raise a baby --> adoption
I don't want my baby to be born in the year of the dragon - -> adoption
I was raped --> adoption
I don't want a baby --> adoption
Centipedes in my vagina --> adoption


The only stuff left is convenience. Being pregnant sucks. Is that what this is about? It interferes with school, it interferes with work, it makes it harder to find random men to sleep with, it means buying a whole new set of clothes, etc. Is that what it comes down to?

There is also the issue of over population. In China this would not work. It wouldn't work well in industrialized nations. It's also rather insane. What is the rationale for forcing a woman to carry a zygote to term? Right to life? Get a life.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Really? And here I thought it was simply a by-product of the bible treating women like second class citizens, telling their children to procreate like rabbits, and an over-inflated sense of hyper-morality that goes along with the belief that everyone who isn't like you is going to be eternally damned.

You do get that you are in agreement with what you were responding to?

Just checkin.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

There is also the issue of over population. In China this would not work. It wouldn't work well in industrialized nations. It's also rather insane. What is the rationale for forcing a woman to carry a zygote to term? Right to life? Get a life.

And with the right to life comes the definition of what life is, see i'm all for both abortions AND right to life, it's just that in a state where if they were born they would be considered dead, their organs would be harvested or they would be buried or cremated, at that stage for some reason a fetus is alive and can be killed...

How that makes sense i do not know, i'm also against post 25 week abortions given there are not complications, if you haven't had one by then you are SOL in my book.

 

[cybrsage]

Sure, I can agree to that. So long as those who are against abortions are okay being called "Pro-Oppression."

I think it is odd you consider saving a human life to be oppression...very odd.