I need a fan controller!

[Bubbleawsome]

Hello all, I swear this will be one of my last threads.
I am getting this case here. It has room for 7 fans (9 counting CPU cooler); I have 2 mobo headers.
For right now I plan to only have maybe 3 fans running in the case with 1 CPU fan, but I am eyeing running 5 fans along with a 2x120 rad and pump with a max of 10 fans and no rad. I have 2x 5.25" bays open and 4 molex connectors.
Touchscreen is AWESOME, but not necessary. I have $30 but could scavenge up to $50. I am looking at 2x NZXT Sentry Mesh's, but other options are welcomed.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I also like this one. Will pumps run on it?http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811992005

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I also like this one. Will pumps run on it?http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811992005

If I were planning to use a fan-controller in addition to the control various motherboards offer natively, I'd want all the fans thermally controlled so I don't have to fiddle with a front-panel device. I can't tell if this controller does that.

Someone else thought to add lots of fans with such a fan controller -- was considering your standard four-knob manual controller -- noted that he'd increase the fan speed(s) while playing games. It's just me, I suppose, but I'd like to have that done automatically as temperatures begin to rise.

$39 is not a lot of money. You might want to take a look at Aquero controllers. the $200 model has a great front-panel display, but there's a $70 "internal circuit board" model that provides all the same features. Some of these -- when they're done well -- include their own microprocessor and communicate with the computer via internal USB. You can then tweak them to set the thresholds for automatic thermal control with software -- usually comes with the hardware.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I am already over budget with this one. I only have $100 to spend and I need a new case and CPU cooler.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I am already over budget with this one. I only have $100 to spend and I need a new case and CPU cooler.

Then -- like most of us -- you'll have to "make do." Some wisdom -- gurus, other sources -- note that it doesn't much matter controlling a water pump -- making it work more or less according to thermal need. You might want to ditch that idea, or put it "on the shelf" as an insignificant problem.

You didn't say which motherboard you were using, or I missed it. I've used ASUS, Gigabyte and eVGA motherboards over the last five years. ASUS flagship boards have ample native, thermal fan control. Mid-range models, like my three-gen-old Z68, have more than enough fan-headers one would need for a midtower case, and the fan-control features for the fan-headers is equal to the flag-ships.

I know that extra front-panel "stuff" is sexy, but you might save some money looking more closely at the motherboard features in the user's guide.

When I was a kid in the 1950s, there was a TV sci-fi show entitled "Captain Video." We used to get cardboard boxes, a box of crayons and some sticks to build the instrument panel to our own "space-ship." In the end, it was all make-believe, but it kept us out of trouble. We were fiddling with cardboard-boxes fitted with sticks for levers, lights and buttons drawn neatly with crayons -- going nowhere except when "Captain Video" appeared with the new episode.

Here, you're "going somewhere," hopefully with a functional, well-tuned, neatly built computer. It then becomes a question as to whether you need the crayons and cardboard boxes -- extra "stuff."

You can "need" extra stuff, or you can just "want" extra stuff. But will it make the computer better? Or will it just add . . . complications? In your case -- your situation and your need for a case -- a budget is a good thing. I'd say -- ditch the front-panel controller idea and use the motherboard. You'll still be over-budget for a case and heatpipe cooler, but not by much.

For those two items, you should do decently well for under $150.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Then -- like most of us -- you'll have to "make do." Some wisdom -- gurus, other sources -- note that it doesn't much matter controlling a water pump -- making it work more or less according to thermal need. You might want to ditch that idea, or put it "on the shelf" as an insignificant problem.

You didn't say which motherboard you were using, or I missed it. I've used ASUS, Gigabyte and eVGA motherboards over the last five years. ASUS flagship boards have ample native, thermal fan control. Mid-range models, like my three-gen-old Z68, have more than enough fan-headers one would need for a midtower case, and the fan-control features for the fan-headers is equal to the flag-ships.

I know that extra front-panel "stuff" is sexy, but you might save some money looking more closely at the motherboard features in the user's guide.

When I was a kid in the 1950s, there was a TV sci-fi show entitled "Captain Video." We used to get cardboard boxes, a box of crayons and some sticks to build the instrument panel to our own "space-ship." In the end, it was all make-believe, but it kept us out of trouble. We were fiddling with cardboard-boxes fitted with sticks for levers, lights and buttons drawn neatly with crayons -- going nowhere except when "Captain Video" appeared with the new episode.

Here, you're "going somewhere," hopefully with a functional, well-tuned, neatly built computer. It then becomes a question as to whether you need the crayons and cardboard boxes -- extra "stuff."

You can "need" extra stuff, or you can just "want" extra stuff. But will it make the computer better? Or will it just add . . . complications? In your case -- your situation and your need for a case -- a budget is a good thing. I'd say -- ditch the front-panel controller idea and use the motherboard. You'll still be over-budget for a case and heatpipe cooler, but not by much.

For those two items, you should do decently well for under $150.

I have a stock dell H55 (I think) mobo. Little No thermal smarts and 2 headers. I will have the NZXT 210 case along with the NZXT T40 cooler because I am going for a clean black and white style.
Since the case takes 7 fans my 2 mobo headers along with this 5 should handle it, so I jumped on the idea.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I have a stock dell H55 (I think) mobo. Little No thermal smarts and 2 headers. I will have the NZXT 210 case along with the NZXT T40 cooler because I am going for a clean black and white style.
Since the case takes 7 fans my 2 mobo headers along with this 5 should handle it, so I jumped on the idea.

In that case (and in that NZXT case), I guess you would then need the front-panel controller of some kind.

I tried to explain to 4Flat4Life -- You only get so much mileage or benefit from additional fans, and the case-manufacturer didn't design the case just for your project. Instead, it is a presentation of options.

In my computer parts locker, I have at least one inexpensive, nice brushed aluminum four-port manual fan controller. I'm trying to think of the manufacturer -- something like "Nexus." Those things are useful -- in fact, the other one identical but black as opposed to brushed aluminum -- I've set up for my Mom's computer. Besides the fan in the PSU, there are just three fans: an input case-front high-output Delta 120x38mm, a solid-aluminum 120x25mm exhaust, and the CPU fan.

In Mom's situation, the mobo is a Gigabyte mATX model we picked up for about $95, and it, too, has a limited number of fan headers.

I needed the controller to limit the Delta as well as the exhaust fan -- both the noise and the airflow. Those things are good if you don't want to much fiddle with the settings. Once you've found the speed that suits, you set it and forget it.

If the controller you linked in an earlier post does at least that much, it's a reasonable price to pay.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

It does, and looks pretty sweet while doing it. My mother board has PWM control, but it doesn't do it by itself. I think the farthest I would ever go is a 2x120mm rad on top with another 2x120mm on the front with an intake on the back and an exhaust out the bottom, maybe an outtake next to the videocards. So while I might use all 7 one day I doubt I will.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It does, and looks pretty sweet while doing it. My mother board has PWM control, but it doesn't do it by itself. I think the farthest I would ever go is a 2x120mm rad on top with another 2x120mm on the front with an intake on the back and an exhaust out the bottom, maybe an outtake next to the videocards. So while I might use all 7 one day I doubt I will.

I'm really sorry that I gave this case-mod to my brother. Don't want to belabor the particulars: but it was a Compaq ProLiant Server case circa 1994. All the slide-out drive trays were still functional for RAID5. It had a Q6600 CPU and 4GB of RAM; "bling" blue neon lights inside with a switch; I'd installed a Silverstone Commander "ESA" controller which worked with the NVidia 680i motherboard:

http://webpages.charter.net/psywar_sentinel/chrome window.jpg

3.5" double caster wheels with brakes, airplane toggle power-switch, swivel-removable PSU cage (from an old 1996 IBM midtower). Dual 140mm fans in a special aluminum cage on case bottom, two front 120mm fans, two San-Ace 120mmx38mm exhaust fans -- one for CPU exhaust and the other drawing air from above and under the motherboard with a duct-panel on the mobo upper side.

So I had basically six fans in the sucker -- two powered off the motherboard with mobo thermal control for the CPU-exhaust and mobo-exhaust.

I could say "that's too many fans!" but that's a BIG, BIG case! 1.5 x normal-midtower width; about 1.25 x normal full-tower height.

Would've made a great water-cooled rig. The Silverstone Commander was great as hardware. There was software downloadable from NVidia, but they never "finished" it. It was supposed to allow for custom thermal control of the remaining fans: you set up a profile by graphic manipulation of a two-D graph of speed versus temperature -- linking fans to thermal sensors also added to the Commander. But the software didn't function for this type of configuration, and you could only set the fans on that controller by percentage of top-end speed or power.

The Commander cost me about $80. After that, I settled on mostly motherboard control and didn't want to spend any more money. The Commander doesn't have switches or lights. Just a black plastic 5.25" front-panel plate.

I think they decided not to refine the software because of the tug-of-war between NVidia and Intel. Also -- it would otherwise work, even for mobos that weren't ESA-certified as with Intel chipsets. It would've been a great controller otherwise. Instead, it was like a simple manual controller without the knobs -- you just set the speeds in the software and forget about it.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I currently use speedfan for the PWM fans in my case.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I currently use speedfan for the PWM fans in my case.

Sure -- I used SpeedFan with my old Northwood P4. But the ASUS motherboards have come a long way since then. [Or -- likely -- so have their competitors.]

For the ASUS boards, if you want thermal control, you can do it entirely through the BIOS. My memory fades slightly, but I think it's a BIOS feature called "Q-Fan." If you need to "administer" the fans in Windows, you can use the ASUS "FanExpert" software. But you shouldn't need to do that for the essential thermally controlled fans.

Truth be told, except for the household's eVGA and Gigabyte boards, I'm freshest on the ASUS with this feature. The eVGA is an NVidia 780i board without the bugs or limitations of the 680i. With the NVidia chipset, it's also ESA-certified. But the fan ports on the board were more than sufficient for that computer, too. And as I recollect, we'd set it up the same way as the other board. No need to fuss with software unless you want. BIOS-configurable thermal control.

But even that system was a tad "fan-heavy." It has the CM Stacker case, and of the four possible fans in the hinged inner side-panel frame, I'd installed three 140x25mm "Sharkoons." Two 120x25mm front intake fans, a Panaflo 120x38mm exhaust, and a CPU pusher fan. Oh, yeah! I even equipped it with the CM barrel-fan made for the Stacker. How many is that? Eight! Eight freakin' fans!

The upside of it, the essential fans are thermally controlled; the remaining mobo headers and a Silverstone Commander limit the remaining six to moving air while being near-noiseless.

It's a great case, and it was a great build -- my Bro uses it. But I just think it might have been done with less. If I'd been more daring, I would have modded the four-fan hinged frame to fit a single 200mm fan. That would've traded three Sharkoons for either a CM or alternate, more powerful 200mm (I have a spare in the parts locker, but forget the manufacturer). Ducting the Noctua tower-heatpipe to the Panaflo would eliminate a fourth fan, so I'd be down to five. Quite frankly, with the other four fans, the barrel-fan doesn't really do much. So, then -- four.

I could guarantee eating my own shorts if there would be any change in temperatures. I've implemented all the solutions I mentioned on other rigs, -- so I can tell ya . . .

 

[Biggu]

I would use your motherboard to control it, If you can scrounge up the extra cash,

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...ontroller_Liquid_System_Controller_53095.html

I just go it for my Mini ITX build and its pretty cool what all it can do. Its pretty expensive as far as fan controllers go and as far as only doing 4 fans natively however I plan to use it to its full capacity.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I would use your motherboard to control it, If you can scrounge up the extra cash,

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...ontroller_Liquid_System_Controller_53095.html

I just go it for my Mini ITX build and its pretty cool what all it can do. Its pretty expensive as far as fan controllers go and as far as only doing 4 fans natively however I plan to use it to its full capacity.

Hah! If I didn't tell Bubbleawsome about that (but thought I did . . .) I told someone else. But my understanding isn't firsthand.

I'd mentioned my frustrations over the software development for the Silverstone Commander. There was another company -- T-wan or Chinese -- named Sunbeam, that was producing little circuitboards that offered the same promise, also with USB internal connection. Luckily, the Sunbeam cost about half as much, because it didn't work. It was missing capacitors shown in the promotional diagram. When I called their tech-support over in the City of Industry, nobody answered, and I may have left ten messages over a week's time before giving up.

There was also another kit sold online -- which did work as intended, but the software was only good for Windows XP.

Looking again at this internal Aquaero unit, it doesn't say anything about water-pumps, but variable control of water-pumps is only a marginally useful idea. The Aquaero is expandable. The Amp ratings seem to be "per fan," so unless you're going to power a 1-lb, 2-amp 300-CFM Delta fan, it should be totally adequate.

 

[Biggu]

absolutely, its definitely not cheap but im sure if you split the fans it can more than handle it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

absolutely, its definitely not cheap but im sure if you split the fans it can more than handle it.

I'd been recommending it without firsthand experience on the Aquaero, but enough experience with other frustrating solutions.

I forgot to check the spec sheet to see if it reads the CPU TJunction sensors and the motherboard sensor. Like the ASUS software that comes with my board, it may show a single temperature about 10C lower than the Tj average. If it doesn't read those sensors, you would still control two essential fans from the motherboard, and then add four to this device.

What can you tell me?

I'm thinking of pulling the Noctua fans from my D14 cooler, ducting the entire cooler to the exhaust fan (as it currently is, but the center "duct" is the P14 140mm Noctua fan). Then I would install something like a 3,000 rpm Delta tri-blade 120x38mm as a pusher fan. The Delta "quiets down real nice" at lower speeds --used to use 'em as CPU fans controlled by SpeedFan. But I'm afraid that the 0.8A spec on these is going to suck hard on the mobo fan-power limit.

Howsoever the Aquaero does or doesn't read the CPU temperature (without using its sensor-wires), it would only need a little work to get a folded sensor under the CPU if I have to do it.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Are you doing it just for fun? Doesn't seem to me like your sig rig needs alot of fans or a controller. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/02/10/the-big-cooling-investigation/1

 

[Bubbleawsome]

"If you have one, two or three fans in your case, the side panel intake mount is the most important. Fill this first, followed by the rear exhaust mount, followed by the roof exhaust mount."
I plan to use this rule. I might only use 3 fans, but that is one more than my mobo can handle. Even a dual fan cooler with 1 case fan over does it.
I am also upgrading to a 270x soon, and will have the rig running 24/7 for F@H.
If you were talking to me, that is.

What is everyone's recommendations for 120mm fans that will make no sound but the wonderful whooshing of air? I plan to push a lot of air, but I want it to keep a nice ambient type sound.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I received it! Everything looks ok except one thing.

The 5th pin over is bent. Is that ok? I need this thing to work all 5 fans at once for 24/7/365 so I don't want it to blow, but it looks like it goes to the touch screen. Halp. >.>

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I received it! Everything looks ok except one thing.
. . . <picture> . . . .
The 5th pin over is bent. Is that ok? I need this thing to work all 5 fans at once for 24/7/365 so I don't want it to blow, but it looks like it goes to the touch screen. Halp. >.>

Which item is this? The NZXT case with the digital controller? I'm confused.

"If you have one, two or three fans in your case, the side panel intake mount is the most important. Fill this first, followed by the rear exhaust mount, followed by the roof exhaust mount."
I plan to use this rule. I might only use 3 fans, but that is one more than my mobo can handle. Even a dual fan cooler with 1 case fan over does it.
I am also upgrading to a 270x soon, and will have the rig running 24/7 for F@H.
If you were talking to me, that is.

What is everyone's recommendations for 120mm fans that will make no sound but the wonderful whooshing of air? I plan to push a lot of air, but I want it to keep a nice ambient type sound.

I was also confused -- about whether he was talking to you or to me. I'm trying to figure out where your quoted advice comes from. I don't disagree with it, but I think it could be unintentionally misleading.

This isn't hard and fast, and everyone has an opinion. . . I think intake fans are most often or most feasibly located on the lower case-front, the case side-panel -- or the case bottom. That would then leave the rear and top as exhaust ports.

For fan control, you're likely best advised to follow this priority: CPU-fan, rear-exhaust nearest CPU, etc. The least priority for thermal control would be large, 200mm side-panel or front-panel fans -- found in cases like my CM HAF -- or I think your NZXT model also provides them (I could be mistaken, and lazy for not reviewing earlier posts.)

If the fan typically runs at its top-end with low RPM (200mm fans tend to run between 700 and 1,000 RPM), they're likely to be noiseless. You don't need much variation of fan speed for such fans, so you're just as well to run them off the power-supply directly.

For 120mm fans, opinions vary widely. I've experimented with many. I try and shoot for the largest spec throughput in CFM with the least power. Alternatively, you'll hear howls from some of our colleagues, but I like the beefy 120x38mm fans for exhaust -- tend to avoid the 120x25mm fan options. These would be a 120x38 0.4A San-Ace, a 120x38 0.46A Panaflo/NMB-MAT "High-Speed" "Axial" fan, and occasionally the 120x38mm Delta-Tri-Blade.

These are obviously not "noiseless" fans at their full-bore top end speed. The first two maybe show 40+ dB at full-bore, and the Delta -- I think -- was rated at closer to 50 dB at its full-out speed of (something between) 3,000 to 3,500 RPM. But they all are fairly quiet when controlled at lower temperatures to a nominal 1,000 to 1,500 RPM.

Some fans can have a motor-whine even when you lower their speed, and others have this whine at all speeds. Any ideal high-throughput fans would only exhibit noise from air-turbulence.

A lot of people favor low-power "noiseless" fans in the 120x25mm size. I just don't like the CFM limits of these.

My personal thoughts about using the Delta to replace two Noctua fans on my CPU cooler reflect a desire to reduce the number of fans, even if the result is slightly more wattage. I might like to run up the Delta to 3,000 RPM when the noise least matters -- high temperatures with intensive games.

But links like the one posted by monkeydelmagico probably explain that increased throughput has diminishing returns for heat dissipation, no matter what.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Which item is this? The NZXT case with the digital controller? I'm confused.

It is the fan controller. It appears to be power pins leading to the screen but I have 0 experience.

I was also confused
-snip-
might like to run up the Delta to 3,000 RPM when the noise least matters -- high temperatures with intensive games.

But links like the one posted by monkeydelmagico probably explain that increased throughput has diminishing returns for heat dissipation, no matter what.

I think I will probably use high cfm fans like the delta with the front being intake and the back and side being outtake. I plan to leave the 2 140mm top vents open and the bottom 120 also.
Would it be safe to run all 5 of the fan controllers outputs to a high cfm fan?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It is the fan controller. It appears to be power pins leading to the screen but I have 0 experience.




I think I will probably use high cfm fans like the delta with the front being intake and the back and side being outtake. I plan to leave the 2 140mm top vents open and the bottom 120 also.
Would it be safe to run all 5 of the fan controllers outputs to a high cfm fan?

I've been there . . done that . . . discovered the limits and parameters.

For the motherboard fan-plugs, the prevailing experience I have suggests there is a common shared wattage among all the fan plugs -- fans all running at 12V -- full-out. The mobo handbook or guide usually provides a "per-fan" limitation, but I've also seen a limit to just the total. Since all the fans are 12V, you'd just add up the amperage on the ones you want to use to see if you CAN use all of them. And usually, the limits are expressed as amperage.

You might be able to run two 0.9A fans off the motherboard -- preferably CPU and "system fan 1" usually connected to a rear exhaust. But that's why I'm weighing my options to spend $17 on another Delta Tri-Blade. You can't really tell unless you try . . .

Look at it another way. Add up the CFM ratings for intake fans; add up the CFM ratings for exhaust fans. I'd like my intake to be slightly greater than the exhaust. Large fans like the 200mm variety @ 700+ RPM can provide as much as 100 CFM per fan. They also have low pressure ratings at the output side of the fan. I would think this latter factor means more air leaking out of the case through the same fan.

Smaller fans for intake might have 100CFM ratings at top-end, but will make more noise. Just be aware of it.

THAT BEING SAID--: Whether motherboard, manual or "smart" USB-connected auxiliary fan-controller, the same thought applies. For the auxiliary fan controller, the specs will show a maximum wattage per channel. If the spec says 15W-per . . , a Delta Tri-Blade is 12V with amperage 0.8A, then it requires a maximum 9.6W. If the controller-spec is 10W, you're probably still "good," but you're gettin' close . . .

There's also a fan-spec called "start-up" volts or watts. Generally, for the fans I've mentioned, that shouldn't be a problem either. But if you get a DELTA 200-CFM 1.65A fan and connect it, you might notice it shuddering a little bit but not spinning.

[OH!] ADDENDUM: If you plan on using the beefier 120x38mm fans attached to the computer case, best to run on over to Sidewinder Computers, Crazy PC, etc. and buy (first of all) rubber fan rivets:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/setof4fanrid.html

You can also get square silicon-rubber gaskets for the appropriate fan size, but the rivets will do it all. With the gaskets, if you use metal screws for the fan, it will still transmit vibration to the case. Not likely at all with the rivets. And the rivets are easier for fan removal -- if you're careful not to pull them apart.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Ok, I will read the specs. I am still wondering if I should RMA it though. :/ That pin bothers me.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Ok, I will read the specs. I am still wondering if I should RMA it though. :/ That pin bothers me.

Well -- you're not talking about pins for the CPU land-grid-array. I can't tell from your picture. If it's a pin for a four-pin USB plug, four-pin PWM fan connector or 3-pin fan connector -- a pair of tiny needle-nose pliers should do the trick.

Frankly, for a fan-controller, I can't imagine what it would be that wouldn't be covered under those possibilities.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I will get a better picture later. It is a row of ~20 pins that go to the touchscreen from the PCB. They look like the power pins on the backside of a PCI-e 6 or 8 pin connector.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I will get a better picture later. It is a row of ~20 pins that go to the touchscreen from the PCB. They look like the power pins on the backside of a PCI-e 6 or 8 pin connector.

You may still be able to fix that . . as I suggested. It's your call. If the pin is bent and not broken, you should be able to fit it correctly to the front-panel device. I think what you're describing is a proprietary cabling. How much could it be damaged, just for a bent pin?

I think you could probably attempt to fix it. If it doesn't work (and you didn't break the pin in the process), you could still RMA the f-f- . . . sucker.