I love anti-motorcycle people.

[Remobz]

We're all on borrowed time. I say make the most of it while you're here.

I rode to work yesterday, froze my ass off too... didn't die.

We are all on borrowed time but why help speed up the process eh

 

[JulesMaximus]

We are all on borrowed time but why help speed up the process eh

I'm no closer to death today than I was yesterday... well, maybe 1 day closer, but so are you.

 

[alevasseur14]

Personally, I don't mind bikes. I'm sure I'd enjoy the hell out of riding one. However, I am completely sure I would kill MYSELF. Not a car or any other factor that isn't me. When I got my drivers license, I'd already been riding snowmobiles for 4 years I wrecked both sleds I bought - a few times each. My last wreck was completely my fault. Flipped the sled in the ditch of a major highway and slid across the highway face down. Last time I'd checked the speedo I'd just hit 75. I stood up on the other side of the highway and was shocked everything on my person was still intact. So was the Explorer that came to a screeching halt right behind me.

Long story short, I love having all that power in a nimble vehicle. But, by the time I'd turned 16, I knew myself well enough to understand I don't belong on a motorcycle. I'm pushing 30 now so maybe someday but I doubt it.

 

[lakedude]

I don't think you understand what the term "relatively" means...

ZV

You keep using that word. ... I do not think it means what you think it means...

 

[lakedude]

I love anti-motorcycle people.

I love motorcycle people.

They are always asking everyone to watch out for them. They have slogans like "Being a Biker is Not Illegal", "Loud Pipes Save Lives", "DILLIGAF", "YOLO", and "Look Twice Save a Life", etc.

Like we are not already trying to avoid an accident! Like they have targets on their backs and car drivers get points for running them over.

Bike riders are at a significant disadvantage of their own choosing. They move fast and are hard to see, especially at night. A car's dual headlights set them apart from all the other lights, while a single light just kinda blends into the background clutter.

When you bike riders do get in a wreck you have nothing to protect you but you choose to ride anyhow. Well good for you. Riding is fun and exciting (I know, had a bike myself when I was younger), but you must know you are choosing to take a risk.

All the idiots on their cellphones are a known constant. The only question is what you do about it.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I love motorcycle people.

They are always asking everyone to watch out for them. They have slogans like "Being a Biker is Not Illegal", "Loud Pipes Save Lives", "DILLIGAF", "YOLO", and "Look Twice Save a Life", etc.

Like we are not already trying to avoid an accident! Like they have targets on their backs and car drivers get points for running them over.

Bike riders are at a significant disadvantage of their own choosing. They move fast and are hard to see, especially at night. A car's dual headlights set them apart from all the other lights, while a single light just kinda blends into the background clutter.

When you bike riders do get in a wreck you have nothing to protect you but you choose to ride anyhow. Well good for you. Riding is fun and exciting (I know, had a bike myself when I was younger), but you must know you are choosing to take a risk.

All the idiots on their cellphones are a known constant. The only question is what you do about it.

Share the love I guess?

I wish I could quit you... :awe:

 

[codyray10]

Well, we're all going to die. I'd rather go doing something I love than live my entire life never having tried things because of fear.

This. I'm about to be 25 years old, been riding motorcycles since I was 20. Before that grew up riding dirt bikes, ATVs etc. During the warmer months there is nothing else I would rather do than be out riding my bike. It's like therapy for me, there really is nothing more calming to me then the sound of my CBR600 exhaust purring, while cruising down scenic/country roads. Of course, everyone knows someone with a motorcycle horror story, but that is not to say everyone who rides a bike will go down eventually. I've had to lock em up a few times because of other drivers stupidity, but no serious scares. As someone else mentioned, when riding my bike I find that im 100% more focused on whats going on as opposed to driving in a car.

 

[Zenmervolt]

A car's dual headlights set them apart from all the other lights, while a single light just kinda blends into the background clutter.

If you have that much trouble picking out a car with a burnt out headlight then perhaps your vision just isn't good enough for you to safely drive at night.

I've always found motorcycles much easier to see at night because it's difficult to miss 1,000 lumens from a point source on a dark background. Then again, I live in an unincorporated area, so we actually have darkness at night.

As for the rest of your post, I'm sorry, but most people simply aren't actively trying to avoid accidents. Most of the drivers I see on a daily basis are obviously distracted. I see people go straight from turn-only lanes on a weekly basis. I've had people change lanes into my Volvo (not a small car, pretty hard to miss) because they weren't paying attention (bastard fled the scene too). On no fewer than 5 occasions this summer I had people pull out directly in front of my 951, a bright red car that ought to be almost impossible to overlook. In fact, in my 15+ years of riding motorcycles, I've had orders of magnitude more close calls from people who didn't see my car than from people who didn't see my bike.

Most of the drivers on the road are simply depending on everyone else to avoid them; very few seem to take any active interest in avoiding accidents.

ZV

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Most of the drivers on the road are simply depending on everyone else to avoid them; very few seem to take any active interest in avoiding accidents.

ZV

This.
Ignorance is bliss.
I was riding passenger once with someone when they took a right turn at a red light, right into traffic, was nuts, people were hitting brakes to avoid her. When I questioned her about it she said "Oh, they'll slow down for me". I was like WTF and never rode with her again. But this seems to be a common philosophy amongst many drivers... this "oh, they'll see me" or "everyone else should be paying attention to what Im doing." Its stupid. Its like bumping into somebody while walking and saying "Watch where Im going dammit!". Its really bad where I live because half the people on the road drive these huge friggen lifted trucks that would squish the average sedan if they'd happen to be in a collision. Having a horn is mandatory with a small car around here.

 

[yhelothar]

This.
Ignorance is bliss.
I was riding passenger once with someone when they took a right turn at a red light, right into traffic, was nuts, people were hitting brakes to avoid her. When I questioned her about it she said "Oh, they'll slow down for me". I was like WTF and never rode with her again. But this seems to be a common philosophy amongst many drivers... this "oh, they'll see me" or "everyone else should be paying attention to what Im doing." Its stupid. Its like bumping into somebody while walking and saying "Watch where Im going dammit!". Its really bad where I live because half the people on the road drive these huge friggen lifted trucks that would squish the average sedan if they'd happen to be in a collision. Having a horn is mandatory with a small car around here.

I can't imagine getting away with that more than once or twice without getting honked/flashed the fuck out of, if not having the guy drive up next to you and give you the finger. That's an insanely asinine thing to do.

One time I accidently did it because a car was blocking my view(well I was stupid and probably shouldn't have went), the guy stuck his head out the window and started screaming obscenities at the top of my lungs. When Louis CK did it, someone yelled at him to suck on a bag of dicks.

 

[BUTCH1]

They never seem to pass up an opportunity to tell you how dangerous riding a motorcycle is...

Really? You think I'm completely unaware of the dangers of riding a motorcycle?

Usually it is someone who has never ridden a motorcycle of course. They just know someone who was killed on one once. That's the extent of their knowledge on the subject.

In case you couldn't tell, I rode my motorcycle to work today. First time I've ridden to work in about a month because it has been so chilly here.

Anyone else get this kind of static from people they work with?

Is it really "anti-motorcycle" people or just a personal choice?. I know several people who ride, I've never come tell them "hey!, bikes are dangerous!", it's your business and your life, do what you like and enjoy yourself, shit, I'd probably ride myself if I could afford one, used bikes in FL are WAY overpriced..

 

[JulesMaximus]

Is it really "anti-motorcycle" people or just a personal choice? I know several people who ride, I've never come tell them "hey!, bikes are dangerous!", it's your business and your life, do what you like and enjoy yourself, shit, I'd probably ride myself if I could afford one, used bikes in FL are WAY overpriced..

No, this woman I work with actually said, "I am anti-motorcycle." Thankfully, she doesn't really give me too much grief about it but she will make comments from time to time. I like her though so I don't take it personally or let it bother me.

It was just an observation.

 

[AdamK47]

I'm actually motorcycle apathetic. I don't care one way or the other. If people want to ride them, go ahead.

 

[Lithium381]

bikes in america are "fun machines" whereas in other parts of the world, they're used daily all over for transportation.... when I was in indonesia a few months back I rode on the back of a scooter my knees 2 inches from other cars. . . there were 10 scooters per car on the road there. I didn't see a single accident the entire month i was in southeast asia(maylasia indonesia and singapore), but i also didn't notice a lot of people on cell phones or putting on makup or reaqding the daily paper either... fwiw

 

[lakedude]

If you have that much trouble picking out a car with a burnt out headlight then perhaps your vision just isn't good enough for you to safely drive at night.

A car is much larger and easier to see day or night, even with a burnt out headlight. A car also has running lights so the off side is not completely dark.

I've always found motorcycles much easier to see at night because it's difficult to miss 1,000 lumens from a point source on a dark background. Then again, I live in an unincorporated area, so we actually have darkness at night.

If the background was dark you have a point, however not all motorcycles have 1000 lumen HID headlights. Some have only a single dim headlight.

Clearly I was referring to a bright incorporated urban area with lots of distracting lights and sounds.

As for the rest of your post, I'm sorry, but most people simply aren't actively trying to avoid accidents. Most of the drivers I see on a daily basis are obviously distracted. I see people go straight from turn-only lanes on a weekly basis. I've had people change lanes into my Volvo (not a small car, pretty hard to miss) because they weren't paying attention (bastard fled the scene too). On no fewer than 5 occasions this summer I had people pull out directly in front of my 951, a bright red car that ought to be almost impossible to overlook. In fact, in my 15+ years of riding motorcycles, I've had orders of magnitude more close calls from people who didn't see my car than from people who didn't see my bike.

Most of the drivers on the road are simply depending on everyone else to avoid them; very few seem to take any active interest in avoiding accidents.

ZV

I guess what I meant was that I am always trying to avoid accidents, can't speak for everyone else.

The point here is still the same. If all these distracted drivers are a known constant what matters is what you do about it. If you can't change the world, you must change how you respond to the world. One way is to get a 4 wheel vehicle with some metal around you. Maybe some seat-belts, airbags, anti-lock brakes and most important 4 wheels so you won't tip over. My car has never thrown me on the ground but some of my 2 wheeled vehicles have...

The other way is to put yourself at more risk by riding around on a fun but dangerous motorcycle. A vehicle that lacks a crumple zone (your face is a crumple zone on a bike) and lacks most or all those other safety features I mentioned...

 

[Zenmervolt]

If the background was dark you have a point, however not all motorcycles have 1000 lumen HID headlights. Some have only a single dim headlight.

1,000 lumens is how much a basic H4 halogen filament bulb puts out on low beam. Pretty much every motorcycle built in the last 35 years will put out at least that much light.

And motorcycles have running lights too; it's a federal requirement to have a pair of amber running lights at the front of the bike.

As far as distracting lights and sounds, while I appreciate that urban environments have greater amounts of distractions, I have yet to drive anywhere in which these distractions were so ridiculously great that they entirely obliterated my ability to pick out vehicles.

If a person finds himself wholly unable to identify other vehicles on the road as a result of "distracting" lights and sounds, as you seem to suggest that you are at night, then the onus is on that person to remove himself from the road. For the safety of everyone, from others who are driving automobiles all the way down to pedestrians who might be crossing the street.

The point here is still the same. If all these distracted drivers are a known constant what matters is what you do about it. If you can't change the world, you must change how you respond to the world. One way is to get a 4 wheel vehicle with some metal around you. Maybe some seat-belts, airbags, anti-lock brakes and most important 4 wheels so you won't tip over. My car has never thrown me on the ground but some of my 2 wheeled vehicles have...

The other way is to put yourself at more risk by riding around on a fun but dangerous motorcycle. A vehicle that lacks a crumple zone (your face is a crumple zone on a bike) and lacks most or all those other safety features I mentioned...

Some of us feel that the appropriate thing to do is encourage the inattentive people to, maybe, pay a bit of attention to what's going on around them. That seems like the sort of thing that might be a benefit to everyone.

So far, you haven't seemed to argue against anything that any motorcyclist has said in this thread. We've all been saying that we understand that motorcycling inherently involves more risk than driving a car, but that the amount of additional risk can be mitigated, to a significant degree, by doing some fairly basic things like getting the appropriate training and paying more attention to what others are doing.

Then you came in and effectively said that it's inappropriate to suggest that drivers should pay attention to what's going on around them. The response you received should not have been a surprise.

ZV

 

[lakedude]

Yeah, that isn't really what happened.

The thread started with a post claiming to "love" anti-motorcycle people while acknowledging that motorcycles are dangerous and that motorcycle riders already know this: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34513954&postcount=1

Then we got a lesson about bread: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34516597&postcount=46

Then we get told that cars are more dangerous than motorcycles: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34517302&postcount=67

Then we are told the same thing again:

Odds are much higher you will die walking, as a passenger in a car, or any of dozens of accidental deaths:

http://danger.mongabay.com/injury_death.htm

So it seems some of you riders know riding is dangerous and accept the risk but perhaps wish the streets were safer and if this is the case I have little to argue about.

OTOH it seems some of you riders believe that because some riders get off lucky, riding is not any more dangerous that driving or walking. If this is you than you need a reality check.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Yeah, that isn't really what happened.

The thread started with a post claiming to "love" anti-motorcycle people while acknowledging that motorcycles are dangerous and that motorcycle riders already know this: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34513954&postcount=1

Then we got a lesson about bread: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34516597&postcount=46

Then we get told that cars are more dangerous than motorcycles: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34517302&postcount=67

Then we are told the same thing again:



So it seems some of you riders know riding is dangerous and accept the risk but perhaps wish the streets were safer and if this is the case I have little to argue about.

OTOH it seems some of you riders believe that because some riders get off lucky, riding is not any more dangerous that driving or walking. If this is you than you need a reality check.

I'm pretty sure we're all well aware of the risks, Thanks for your concern.

 

[lakedude]

I'm pretty sure not all of you are. Did you not read WM2's posts?

 

[imagoon]

I'm pretty sure not all of you are. Did you not read WM2's posts?

Actually I just did. It shows that walking, being a car passenger, falls, passenger in a pickup, and death due to accidental injury among others are more dangerous than a riding a motorcycle.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

The level of danger all depends on the driver of the vehicle.

A bad driver on a bike is in the most danger.
A bad driver in a car is in less danger than a bad driver on a bike.
A good driver on a bike is at equal to or less danger than a good driver in a car.

If you are a solid defensive driver who is not an idiot, then whatever you drive the level of danger is going to be the same. If you are an idiot, you should probably stick with a car because the level of danger you put yourself into increases once you sit on a bike. As an idiot you are more likely to hurt yourself on a bike, than in a car - on the other hand, as an idiot you are more likely to hurt SOMEONE ELSE while driving a car than while driving a bike.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Actually I just did. It shows that walking, being a car passenger, falls, passenger in a pickup, and death due to accidental injury among others are more dangerous than a riding a motorcycle.

No, they show that more people die in those manners.

Without correcting the death rate to deaths per hour of use, those numbers don't tell us anything about the relative danger of those events.

ZV

 

[lakedude]

No, they show that more people die in those manners.

Without correcting the death rate to deaths per hour of use, those numbers don't tell us anything about the relative danger of those events.

ZV

exactly

 

[imagoon]

No, they show that more people die in those manners.

Without correcting the death rate to deaths per hour of use, those numbers don't tell us anything about the relative danger of those events.

ZV

It looks like they converted it in to vegas style odds. I mean how would you seriously account for "number of hours Intentionally self-poisoning" or "number of hours spent Assaulted by firearms." I read that odds chart more as: If I was going to die right now, here are the odd of what I would die of.

Also number one thing from statistical odds is the what applies to the group doesn't perfectly align with the individual.

Honestly the people that go high might on the dangers of ride a bike should go spend all this nanny effort on their own lives. I (personally) don't crab at you about your smoking, drinking, unsafe sex, driving over the speed limit and etc. If it doesn't affect you, then don't worry about it / why even care.

 

[lakedude]

Certainly the driver makes a difference but skill alone is not always enough.

A guy I worked with is missing a leg and nearly died because someone pulled right out in front of him while he was on a motorcycle. When a similar thing happened to the same guy (hmmm, I'm seeing a pattern here) while he was driving a Suburban his front bumper got a little scratch in it.

Motorcycles are more likely than cars to fit entirely in a vehicle's blind spots. Since a car is bigger it is more likely to have some part of itself visible.

It really should be quite obvious that motorcycles are more dangerous.

Looked up the headlight thing. Yep, HID not required to reach 1000 lumens, my mistake.