I just ordered the Phillips Airfryer

[agent00f]

I think that's just the nature of the beast. By the time the food cooks through, the hot air dries it out.

Yes, it comes down to the low conductivity of air, so these designs try to run the fans on full blast to compensate. An actual fryer has very good conductivity in the liquid oil, and I guess what water it might displace over time is replaced by delicious fat instead of nothing.

I actually bought the philips but kind of lazy to test it out, though I've used similar ovens a bit in the past. This is kind of an odd obsession of mine given I own like 10+ small/novelty ovens at this point.

Thanks so much Kaido! Question - what exactly is the difference between convection toaster oven and an airfryer? And is a convection toaster oven different than the standard oven that is pretty much in every house? I would think so. Thanks!

If you want to get something practical, I highly recommend the Panasonic infrared oven. Recommend because of nearly foolproof heating algs, and greatest contrast to the standard oven. Specifically it crisps very well and very quickly.

But really if you want relatively simple great cooking/heating, you'll want two stages, ideally a finely controlled water bath to get internal temp/rendering/gelatinization, and high temp fiery on the outside for malliard reaction. This way the internal texture is perfected much as it can through the dual variables of time & temp, and the outside is finished however you prefer (though ideally quickly to avoid introducing a temp gradient into the food). For an easier alternative, use a microwave on low-ish to get inside temp up, followed by the Panasonic for the outside.

 

[Kaido]

I actually bought the philips but kind of lazy to best it out, though I've used similar ovens a bit in the past. This is kind of an odd obsession of mine given I own like 10+ small/novelty ovens at this point.

Nice, which ones do you have? I would definitely be interested in seeing how they compete!

 

[Kaido]

If you want to get something practical, I highly recommend the Panasonic infrared oven. Recommend because of nearly foolproof heating algs, and greatest contrast to the standard oven. Specifically it crisps very well and very quickly.

This is the Panasonic, for reference: ($130)

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-NB-G110P-Xpress-Toaster-Silver/dp/B008C9UFDI

I have this & I do recommend it as a mini toaster oven & as a toaster replacer. I went through so many toasters...eventually found this & couldn't be happier. However, it is fairly small & doesn't have the convection (fan) feature, so if you want a larger unit that cooks even faster, so the Breville Smart Oven Pro is still my top pick. However...larger footprint on the countertop. Also, twice as expensive.

 

[agent00f]

So the term "air fryer" is basically just a marketing gimmick. All an AirFryer is is just a convection oven (oven with fans, in this case, high-speed fans) in a very small size. Preheat time is very fast & cook time is quick (with the risk of drying out your food...you have to adjust every recipe to work for the gadget). The Philips model uses a top-mounted coil burner, similar to a broiler, along with a fan system & a mesh tray to let the air circulate, which is then pushed out the top of the unit like a mini smokestack.

Air Fryers tend to do better at reheating stuff & making things really quickly, again with the risk of drying out the food, so you have to be willing to tweak recipes as needed (I recommend logging your progress so you know what works & what doesn't...I need to try out more things because I still tend to make pretty dry food with mine). If you are mostly cooking for yourself, and do a lot of frozen foods (or want to reheat foods & keep them crispy or crunchy), then an airfryer is a pretty good little device. I can cook for like 2 people at most with my XL model.

I plan on getting a cheaper airfryer at some point to compare, probably a Big Boss. iirc Newegg has a Rosewill model & Walmart has an Oyama model that are worth looking into as well. The Oyama one is actually a convection oven but with high-speed fans, and it's also super cheap: (under $50)

https://www.amazon.com/Oyama-TRO-110C-Turbo-Convection-White/dp/B003XJE60U

Nuwave also has some interesting options. Some use electric coils, some use infrared halogen...I'd really like to see a shootout of all of the available models, because I think they are useful little devices, especially if you're usually stuck cooking stuff for yourself after work & whatnot. However, if you're low on counterspace & kitchen storage, just buy a quality convection toaster oven. The Breville Smart Oven Pro is the best option I've seen to date. Really pricey at $259, but again, cheaper than the "large" Philips AirFryer by $40, and does a lot more & includes more accessories.

I also have a couple of the halogen fan ovens and the breville. The halogens are alright for quick and easy treatment of the outside, presumably not too much worse than the expensive philiops. The breville is a better complete replacement/alternative to the full oven, but not as good as the cheap panasonic for crisping up, particular bit soggy fridged food. They did introduce a few smaller models that are closer in price though.

 

[Kaido]

I also have a couple of the halogen fan ovens and the breville. The halogens are alright for quick and easy treatment of the outside, presumably not too much worse than the expensive philiops. The breville is a better complete replacement/alternative to the full oven, but not as good as the cheap panasonic for crisping up, particular big soggy fridged food. They did introduce a few smaller models that are closer in price though.

Yeah, that seems to be the tradeoff...true baking vs. crisping.

 

[agent00f]

Nice, which ones do you have? I would definitely be interested in seeing how they compete!

I have couple generic ones, one is a rosewill which is newegg generic label. I think they're all more or less the same design, a circular halogen lamp with a fan in the middle in a top unit with all the stuff in it which comes down over a glass bowl. The only thing I did was cover the inside in alu foil as a reflector since it looked like a lot of output was coming out of the glass bowl, I never a/b tested or otherwise calculated the mod but seems right intuitively.

The main difference to the philips it seems is that the generics combine forced air and direct halogen IR, and the latter make placement important because only the top of the food is best exposed to the light for some directly crisping (like the panasonic, except that has bulb on the bottom if you put food directly on the rack).

The only other kind of different design is the old discontinued t-fal with a paddle to mix up the contents as it cooked, but that looked kind of brittle.

Also just a heads up I edited that post you quote a bit.

 

[agent00f]

Practically speaking these days I mostly use the microwave and panasonic, particularly for reheating, followed by sous vide immersion circulator and most appropriate ultra-hot outside treatment (cast iron, grill, torch, etc) for more fancy food.

 

[SaltyNuts]

Kaido, sorry for the delay getting back for you. I ordered this one:

"The Oyama one is actually a convection oven but with high-speed fans, and it's also super cheap: (under $50)

https://www.amazon.com/Oyama-TRO-110C-Turbo-Convection-White/dp/B003XJE60U"

At least it will be fun to try it. I usually cook hamburgers, chicken, or steaks. Would like to try brisket as well. Have any thoughts on cooking times, temperatures, etc.?

Thanks!

 

[SaltyNuts]

bump!

 

[Kaido]

Kaido, sorry for the delay getting back for you. I ordered this one:

"The Oyama one is actually a convection oven but with high-speed fans, and it's also super cheap: (under $50)

https://www.amazon.com/Oyama-TRO-110C-Turbo-Convection-White/dp/B003XJE60U"

At least it will be fun to try it. I usually cook hamburgers, chicken, or steaks. Would like to try brisket as well. Have any thoughts on cooking times, temperatures, etc.?

Thanks!

You can air-fry those things...mine came out on the dry side, but again, I need to spend more time with it to master it, so I don't have a definitive yes/no on airfryers yet. Tentatively I would say that it is really easy to dry out fresh food, but it's great for reheating food or making frozen foods crispy in small batches. Alternatively, if you have the budget available, Philips has a really nice electric infrared low-smoke indoor grill for $279:

https://www.amazon.com/Philips-HD6371-94-Indoor-Grill/dp/B01D6KCY4K/

Part of the reason it's so pricey is that the locked temperature is 446F, so it actually gets pretty dang hot. Preheat time is only 6 minutes. You can definitely cook steak on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jXlaNN0PvE

Veggies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfwRwKEoISs

Burgers, steak, and mushrooms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ts_a85sko

Bonus, you can use it at the dinner table if you want to get all fancy & cook dinner while you eat (ex. skewered chicken). As far as the airfryer goes, here's my steak & chicken post from earlier this year:

I just did chicken tonight, came out great! Actually I did a Ron Swanson "Turf & Turf" dinner tonight, starting out with a 10oz NY Strip:

Followed by a chicken breast pounded down & coated with honey mustard sauce, paprika, basil, and garlic salt:

The steak was...cooked. Again, I prefer crust. My #1 way of making steak is in my wannabe salamander broiler (Namath Rapid Cooker), followed by Alton Brown's cast iron oven-stove method (which imo yields a better crust, but smokes out my unventilated house). Third place would be sous vide, just for the tenderness, although I've never been able to get a crust quite to my liking (granted, I need to try again now that I can have real butter). Anyway, with enough butter & seasonings, it was decent. The nice thing was all I had to do was take it out of the fridge, slather it up with some canola oil & salt, and drop it in the airfryer for 15 minutes, turning once. So for seven bucks and fifteen minutes of not having to cook, I got a decent steak. Not bad!

The chicken took a bit longer, 20 or 25 minutes. I actually overcooked it just a tad...still getting the hang of how the airfryer works. The last like 30 degrees go QUICK in this thing, so you really have to watch when it gets close because all of a sudden you've overshot by ten degrees. The design of the airfryer makes it easy to check temps (just pulled out the tray) without losing too much heat in doing so, which is nice. Or if it shuts down on timer & you need to run it a few minutes longer, you just tap the on button again, no biggie. Definitely doesn't hold much food...one very large flattened chicken cutlet took up the entire grill tray. Granted, that's enough for a meal for two, but you're not going to be cooking for a whole family on this thing.

It's like a crispy version of my Instant Pot...dump food in, press button, minutes later you're eating :thumbsup:

 

[Kaido]

Kaido, sorry for the delay getting back for you. I ordered this one:

"The Oyama one is actually a convection oven but with high-speed fans, and it's also super cheap: (under $50)

https://www.amazon.com/Oyama-TRO-110C-Turbo-Convection-White/dp/B003XJE60U"

At least it will be fun to try it. I usually cook hamburgers, chicken, or steaks. Would like to try brisket as well. Have any thoughts on cooking times, temperatures, etc.?

Thanks!

As far as the Oyama goes specifically, I would try everything a few times so you can tweak the cook times until you end up with the results you want. It took me a couple of steaks to figure out how to not make it completely dry. Definitely read through the comments on Amazon & Walmart. One post said that their steak took 14 minutes. Also check out Youtube videos. For $44, I might have to pick one up to see how it compares to my Airfryer...my gut feeling says the Oyama will work better lol.

 

[Humpy]

Was there ever an "I just ordered the Phillips Screwdriver" parody thread for this?

It might have been funny back then.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I think that this device offers some unique features such as the removable food basket setting it apart from a convection oven. I wouldn't mind cooking some chicken or fries in it without bathing them in cooking oil like in a deep fryer.

 

[sdifox]

Kaido you need a kitchen addition first.

 

[agent00f]

Kaido, sorry for the delay getting back for you. I ordered this one:

"The Oyama one is actually a convection oven but with high-speed fans, and it's also super cheap: (under $50)

https://www.amazon.com/Oyama-TRO-110C-Turbo-Convection-White/dp/B003XJE60U"

At least it will be fun to try it. I usually cook hamburgers, chicken, or steaks. Would like to try brisket as well. Have any thoughts on cooking times, temperatures, etc.?

Thanks!

Brisket won't work due to tough connective tissue. Steak is alright, but not good as two-stage processes. Burger isn't too bad for a rather clean cook, but indoors straight on cast iron or similar is better. And that's the problem, these are decent for a lot of food, but not the best solution. Personally I find these halogen ovens to be better for reheating than cooking per se, the direct IR is quite effective for crisping the surface quickly without much of any mess.

 

[desura]

I'd never heard of an air fryer before this thread...but I've been using one lately and from what I can tell, it is basically a toaster oven without the bottom heating element, and a fan to make up for that.

This is still quite useful, as you can now grill meat without worrying that the oven might catch on fire from dripping fats.

 

[Kaido]

Kaido you need a kitchen addition first.

I just bought a third metal shelf rack from Home Depot to hold all of my appliances in the basement

Kind of a pain walking downstairs to get them tho. I have a tiny kitchen, so I only keep my blender, pressure cooker, microwave, and small toaster oven in that room (on shelves too, since I don't have enough counterspace! lol). Ideally I'd like to find (or build) a house with a built-in pantry for both food & gear. I haven't quite figured out the best approach yet, especially if I ever get the chance to build from scratch. I've seen "appliance garages", which are pretty cool...I'm thinking maybe one mega-long counter with like a huge vent over the top, and then individual appliance garages with slide-out bases so I can quickly slide the gadget out, cook, and have it vented outside if needed.

Aside from a couple big-ticket items, I think I'm going to have my kitchen appliance collection wrapped up by the end of the year. I'm sure they're release exciting new stuff in the future, but I'll have 99% of what I want covered with what I have in my home inventory. One of these days I need to get around to writing up some reviews or doing some Youtube videos of everything...there's oddly not any huge websites or even subreddits for kitchen appliances...

 

[sdifox]

I just bought a third metal shelf rack from Home Depot to hold all of my appliances in the basement

Kind of a pain walking downstairs to get them tho. I have a tiny kitchen, so I only keep my blender, pressure cooker, microwave, and small toaster oven in that room (on shelves too, since I don't have enough counterspace! lol). Ideally I'd like to find (or build) a house with a built-in pantry for both food & gear. I haven't quite figured out the best approach yet, especially if I ever get the chance to build from scratch. I've seen "appliance garages", which are pretty cool...I'm thinking maybe one mega-long counter with like a huge vent over the top, and then individual appliance garages with slide-out bases so I can quickly slide the gadget out, cook, and have it vented outside if needed.

Aside from a couple big-ticket items, I think I'm going to have my kitchen appliance collection wrapped up by the end of the year. I'm sure they're release exciting new stuff in the future, but I'll have 99% of what I want covered with what I have in my home inventory. One of these days I need to get around to writing up some reviews or doing some Youtube videos of everything...there's oddly not any huge websites or even subreddits for kitchen appliances...

in your case I would say multiple level shelves that are deep enough to keep your gadgets in place, then just have a serving cart as your prep table.

 

[Kaido]

I'd never heard of an air fryer before this thread...but I've been using one lately and from what I can tell, it is basically a toaster oven without the bottom heating element, and a fan to make up for that.

This is still quite useful, as you can now grill meat without worrying that the oven might catch on fire from dripping fats.

Yup, that's the basic idea. Either a halogen bulb or a heating coil & fan; basically a low-budget micro-broiler. Some get fancy with a rotating base or rotisserie. The Philips XL I have has a high-speed fan that can preheat in just a few minutes. Interesting to see all of the variations out there. We just need to motivate agent00f to do a large-scale shootout!

 

[Kaido]

in your case I would say multiple level shelves that are deep enough to keep your gadgets in place, then just have a serving cart as your prep table.

Ideally, I'd have one "garage" per appliance with a slide-out shelf. Basically a whole row of these:

I am a big fan of convenience, both in terms of using appliances to cook & in being able to access them. It's a barrier to have to go down & get them right now. It's the same with playing guitar...if you leave it out in your bedroom or living room on a stand, all you have to do is pick it up & play, but if you pack it away in a closet in the case, there's more of a mental barrier because now you have to go dig it out when you want to play. Convenience is King...that's why fast-food restaurants make billions. I don't think something like this would be hard to make...a bunch of vertical-sliding cabinets with some heavy-duty sliding rail platforms, but it's just not a standard thing in any house that I've seen, even the multi-million-dollar homes I've worked in back in my installer days, which had huuuuuuge gourmet kitchens.

 

[sdifox]

Ideally, I'd have one "garage" per appliance with a slide-out shelf. Basically a whole row of these:

I am a big fan of convenience, both in terms of using appliances to cook & in being able to access them. It's a barrier to have to go down & get them right now. It's the same with playing guitar...if you leave it out in your bedroom or living room on a stand, all you have to do is pick it up & play, but if you pack it away in a closet in the case, there's more of a mental barrier because now you have to go dig it out when you want to play. Convenience is King...that's why fast-food restaurants make billions. I don't think something like this would be hard to make...a bunch of vertical-sliding cabinets with some heavy-duty sliding rail platforms, but it's just not a standard thing in any house that I've seen, even the multi-million-dollar homes I've worked in back in my installer days, which had huuuuuuge gourmet kitchens.

not going to work that well for heavy or high rotation devices.

 

[Kaido]

not going to work that well for heavy or high rotation devices.

They make heavy-duty drawer slides that can accommodate up to 500 pounds:

https://www.amazon.com/Drawer-Slide-Extension-Heavy-Capacity/dp/B0009OBPH4

Slide out, use it, clean it, slide it back in. Have GFCI power outlets tucked inside the cabinet. They make ultra-wide 30" appliance garages too:

https://www.amazon.com/National-Fronts-Components-Straight-Appliance/dp/B006GSFKGY/

Slide the cover up, slide the tray out, voila!

 

[Kaido]

Now I remember the name of the company, BLUM:

http://www.blum.com/us/en/01/30/10/

Their Tandem + Blumotion system can support a 100-pound static load (75-pound dynamic). They also have the European-style lift-up cabinets, like they sell at IKEA. I think that hinging system would work better than the appliance garage rolling system long-term. Plus, BLUM offers soft-close mechanisms, which are really really nice.

 

[Kaido]

Dug my Philips XL out & did wings tonight. Tried a new method for crispy wings: toss wings with oil & cornstarch, airfry at 360F for 25 minutes, then add sauce & cook for another 5 minutes. After 25 minutes, they came out very crispy. Adding the sauce made them a bit more gummy & less crispy. Wasn't totally dry, but they were a bit dry. Will either skip that part, or else amp it up to 390F next time to emulate a broiler. During the first pass, it did fill my kitchen with haze...the machine was 100% clean before cooking fwiw. Not really smoke but like a fine smoke. I recommend a fan & opening the windows, or else if you have external ventilation, just stick it on the stove & turn the hood fan on. Curious if the Oyama or BigBoss is like this.

For this batch, I did canola oil, cornstarch, Tabasco sauce, and ancho chili pepper for the rub. For the baked-on sauce, I used Weber's sweet & spicy (meh). For the dipping sauce, I had some leftover Wendy's sweet & sour. Pretty good. Nice to have reasonably crispy wings without having to deep-fry them. I used a tablespoon or two of oil for ~1.5 pounds of wings. Also, I forgot to spray the mesh tray with Pam & they were pretty stuck after both cooking passes.

 

[agent00f]

I haven't cooked too many foods from raw in the halogen oven, but from what I recall (and this is a while back) that looks more or less what I would expect, but somewhat less crispy than "really crispy" depending on the specifics of the coating. The biggest diff I think is the halogens are more directional, the top crisp more than the bottom so you'll want to flip them over at least once. There's some inevitably food smell, but not terribly more so than a normal oven if you put it on the range under the fan.

Frankly for most people the halogens are the more realistic option simply due to the price gap. The way I look at that market in general, most folks are not going to buy in first at the philips price, they already consider $130 for the panny kind of pricey for a "toaster oven". The halogens are a cheapass alternative they can try to see if they like that kind of mini-crisping-oven, and move up from there.