I have joined Nvidia's Focus Group.

[MegaWorks]

I'm speechless, I really don't know what to say! I used to come here every day to get

information about new GPU etc. But now I have how should I put it, zero taste.


We are allowing an nVidia employee to mod the forums, I really didn't see that coming at all.

It's says a lot about the neutrality of Anandtech and its direction. I knew something was fishy

the moment rollo showed up back to the forums and you know what I'm not buying it! This

reminds me a lot to the time when everyone used to defend rollo about his neutrality just to

explode back on their faces the day he was exposed.


I'm not mad at you keys so don't feel offended.

 

[n7]

From a personal point of view, congrats.

From a poster on the forums point of view, this is extremely disappointing to see.

I have no respect for nVidia as a company for numerous reasons, & this doesn't help.

That won't stop me from buying their hardware, but i wish they didn't conduct business like this.

 

[Demoth]

I feel this issue reflects a growing resentment of corporate tenticles reaching into fansites in general. The assumption that current focus group practices have no marketing goals is taking Nvidia at face value. My question is why is this gifting of free merchandise being targetting towards highly vocal hardcore Nvidia 'fan boys' rather then to more respected smaller scale testers who consistently stay more neutral? Doesn't sound like the focus groups are really looking for feedback moreso then mouth-pieces.

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion Nvidia is trying to set up a slush fund for forum mods and benchmarkers, like generals who push one main defense contracter guarentees a high payoff down the road?

Regardless of what the facts are or are not, the perception by many will not change. Rollo trying to be the voice of reason here throws more fuel into the fire. It seems like one of the last unbiased sources of computer info on the web is now going the way of some of the other once respected sites.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
I'm speechless, I really don't know what to say! I used to come here every day to get

information about new GPU etc. But now I have how should I put it, zero taste.


We are allowing an nVidia employee to mod the forums, I really didn't see that coming at all.

It's says a lot about the neutrality of Anandtech and its direction. I knew something was fishy

the moment rollo showed up back to the forums and you know what I'm not buying it! This

reminds me a lot to the time when everyone used to defend rollo about his neutrality just to

explode back on their faces the day we was exposed.


I'm not mad at you keys so don't feel offended.

I'm glad you're not mad. Cause I'd really hate to see you really mad.
Put your mind at ease bud. I'm not an employee. I'm no salesman. What I am, is an enthusiast. Just like you. About the neutrality of AT. I don't see writing on any walls that state that AT would not allow an AMD/ATI or Intel focus group members here on the forums. I'm sure they would welcome it just the same. It's just that none have come forward to do so. I don't think that is AT's fault, do you?

Anyways, I'm not mad at you either. You've always been a good guy here. :thumbsup:

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: n7
From a personal point of view, congrats.

From a poster on the forums point of view, this is extremely disappointing to see.

I have no respect for nVidia as a company for numerous reasons, & this doesn't help.

That won't stop me from buying their hardware, but i wish they didn't conduct business like this.

On the contrary. Say you and other members here are having a certain issue with your video cards that you can't figure out. And are frustrated becuase you feel it would never get resolved. You could start a bashing thread to try to get Nvidia's attention, or you could just tell me about it. Or Rollo. You now have two direct links. You know you're going to be heard one way or the other. Is that not a cool thing?

 

[MegaWorks]

keys I'm going to bed I'll finish our discussion tomorrow. Well goodnight all!

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
keys I'm going to bed I'll finish our discussion tomorrow. Well goodnight all!

Yeah, me too. I'm bushed. TTYT.

 

[Blacklash]

All I have to say on the matter is; congratulations and I hope you enjoy it.

 

[Greenman]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: n7
From a personal point of view, congrats.

From a poster on the forums point of view, this is extremely disappointing to see.

I have no respect for nVidia as a company for numerous reasons, & this doesn't help.

That won't stop me from buying their hardware, but i wish they didn't conduct business like this.

On the contrary. Say you and other members here are having a certain issue with your video cards that you can't figure out. And are frustrated becuase you feel it would never get resolved. You could start a bashing thread to try to get Nvidia's attention, or you could just tell me about it. Or Rollo. You now have two direct links. You know you're going to be heard one way or the other. Is that not a cool thing?

It is a cool thing, and exactly what I would expect to find on an nvidia forum, people with an inside track.

nVidia has it's hand far to deep in Anand's pocket for me to accept anything written here, or any reviews as fact. Asking that Rollo be allowed to post again, and now adding you to their focus group, is simply a method of gaining an inside position on this board.

 

[Budarow]

Originally posted by: DerekWilson

Originally posted by: BFG10K
As a mod I fully respect Derek's decision.

As a poster I am not happy with this. IMO the most important attribute of a mod is total neutrality, both through actions and through public perception.

As a focus group member paid to promote a company, neutrality is simply not possible as there's always a conflict of interest.

Hi guys. I just want to chime in and say that some of you are really blowing this out of proportion.

Keys let me know about this when it happened. He's letting all of you know now as well. While any of you can take or leave his statements on the forum (while factoring in his NVIDIA relationship), his ability to moderate is not in question.

While I believe keys will still be a good source of testing and information, I know some of you will feel the need to distrust what he says. This is fine -- go find another source to confirm or refute and/or test things for yourself.

But his opinions or affiliations have nothing to do with moderation. Lashing out against AMD fans or being lenient on NVIDIA fans will not do anything but stir up problems both for keys and for NVIDIA. No one wants this, and I strongly believe that keys can remain fair in his moderation.

Rollo was vetoed as a moderator candidate because he consistently lied to members and moderators about his affiliation and manipulated people through deception. He was a viral marketer whether he wants to admit it or not, and AEG was a problem. This is not the same as the current NVIDIA focus group. His current participation with NVIDIA's focus group had nothing to do with him not being a moderator. His history as a member here is what sealed the deal on that one.

NVIDIA focus group members do not exist to promote NVIDIA or sell NVIDIA products.

Focus group members are actively discouraged from doing any type of marketing. Relaying press releases and information is one thing, but they do not want their focus group members to act as or be perceived as shills.

That's tough for Rollo because he absolutely did behave as a shill. He promoted NVIDIA products while conceling and denying his relationship with them, and it doesn't matter whether anything he said was what he really felt or not -- his behavior was reprehensible.

I'd take 1 keys over 10000 Rollos.

I had hoped that the time keys has been here, the work he's put into the forums, the excellent job he's done as a moderator, and the fact that he is being open and honest about the situation would go a long way with all of you. If it doesn't, let me add once again that if there is any problem with keys as a moderator, please let me know immediately and I will absolutely deal with it.

Again, NVIDIA focus group members do not exist to promote NVIDIA or sell NVIDIA products. This is not what NVIDIA wants them around for.

AEG -- different story. This is not that.

keys is still keys ... his affiliations don't matter, only his actions. his history here does a good job of illustrating who he is -- don't throw all that out because of this.

now that he's a focus group member, everyone here can weigh his forum posts with that in mind. but it really doesn't have anything to do with moderation.

Nice editorial...really Only time will tell, but 1 thing's for sure, if ANY Focus Group member is out of line, there are plenty of peeps who will blow the whistle.

And I know it made a lot of peeps angry, but to be frank, before Rollo was banned, I used to laugh my butt off reading his comments (which after a few posts, stopped having to do with PC hardware altogether)

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: schneiderguy
:thumbsdown:

Moderator and "Focus Group" member shouldn't go together, in my opinion. Yes I saw that Derek Wilson oked it, but I dont agree with it.

Congratulations though I want free stuff too

Being a moderator while simultaneously being an active member of this forum wasn't a problem. Why should this be different?

You don't get paid for being a mod. You get paid (in the form of nvidia products) for being a focus group member. I'm not saying that it's going to happen to you, but for most people having some company give them a bunch of free stuff is going to affect their judgement.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: magreen
Well Zap, I suppose you could join some focus group in your area of moderation and get free... uh... motherboards and... uhh... "general hardware"...

Hmmm, good idea... if you know what I mean...

Originally posted by: BFG10K
As an example, 18 months later we're still waiting for a driver fix for UT2004's stuttering in XP with the 8xxx/9xxx series, a TWIMTBP title I might add.

Heck with that, what about Crimson Skies having major issues running with hardware acceleration with Nvidia cards? I've been waiting... nearly forever for a fix for that.

 

[NinjaJedi]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
Do you have to be selected or can you just join?

You need to be asked by NVIDIA. They read the forums and invite people they feel would be good additions to the group.

hahaha no one can take a joke? hahhahaha.

a moderator edited my joke. I guess it hit home pretty hard.

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
As a mod I fully respect Derek's decision.

As a poster I am not happy with this. IMO the most important attribute of a mod is total neutrality, both through actions and through public perception.

As a focus group member paid to promote a company, neutrality is simply not possible as there's always a conflict of interest.

Very good point!

 

[ViRGE]

Apparently I'm a day late to the discussion (and beaten by Derek no less), but I'd like to weigh in all the same.

I've been on the AT forums for nearly 10 years now and I've seen a lot of things, none of which quite compare to this. Congrats to keys, I'm sure this is a big thing for him/her/it. But I disagree with the assertion that having a moderator working for NV's focus group isn't a problem.

Make no mistake, Keys has been an excellent moderator; I once told Derek that this public mod thing would flop hard when he asked my opinion of it, and mods like Keys are much of the reason that it hasn't. But one simply can't ignore the conflict of interest that results from a moderator also being employed by a company with a stake in what happens on these forums.

I have never seen a moderation action by Keys that I would consider inappropriate, but I'm presuming here that Keys is human and not some top-secret turing test defeating AI. People can be influenced by external factors and it happens to the best of us, and I don't think Keys is any more immune. Some day a situation may arise where perhaps his coveted focus group position comes in to jeopardy, or a situation where as a mod he makes a decision based off of faulty/incomplete/incorrect information based on his position within NV, and in such a situation it's entirely possible (if not probable) that he could screw up; he's only human after all. I think however little the chance of such a thing happening, it is now too much of a chance to be left to chance; corrections must be made so that such a thing may never happen.

Furthermore it just flat-out looks bad that one of our moderators are on the NV payroll. It looks bad for the forums and is going to generate a nagging feeling that Keys isn't moderating on the level, and such a feeling will never go away. Even if he were some perfect machine, it's going to make forum members and the lurkers suspicious, which is undermining to the AT Video community. Hell, I could even see this being spun against AT itself, since AT is allowing such a conflict of interest; there's certainly no shortage of people who think AT is on the NV/ATi/Intel/RAMBUS dole and this could very well make it worse.

But to wrap things up, I have to disagree with Keys and Derek here. Keys has been a great moderator, but if he will be part of the NV focus group he should be a moderator no more. There needs to be a clear separation between the mere mortals and those with a vested interest in these forums, and that includes only the mere mortals doing the moderating - Keys is no longer a mere mortal. I have never, ever said something like this before, but I believe it would be best for the forums if Keys was no longer a moderator from this point on. And I think it would be best for Keys if this is something he did voluntarily sooner than later.

Keys would be a tough loss as a moderator, but this is a strong forum and from the mod voting we know there are other capable people to moderate this forum that I suspect are able to do as good of a job as Keys. We can replace the moderator, but we may never be able to replace the loss of trust and community should something shameful happen.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: vanvock

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: BFG10K
As a mod I fully respect Derek's decision.

As a poster I am not happy with this. IMO the most important attribute of a mod is total neutrality, both through actions and through public perception.

As a focus group member paid to promote a company, neutrality is simply not possible as there's always a conflict of interest.

And as a moderator, I have total neutrality. It's you who cannot separate mod from member, not I. As indicated by your second paragraph.

And it's not to promote BFG. Nobody asked me to promote anything. Not even close. Not even hinted. I get to evaluate hardware and software, and report problems I find here in the forums. And correct any FUD when I see it (which is something I do anyway). I already have a short list of things to discuss with the group. One of which is JAG's VSYNC issue with latest drivers.

And still, nobody has really made it clear how this would effect moderation. All I see is "conflict of interest" over and over again, with no real explanation of what this "interest" is.

Ask New York's govenor, he had the concept explained to him recently, he was "Mr. Clean" before. Sooner or later you're going to be asked to "dance with the one that brung ya".

But I don't use an escort service vanvock.

I was actually wondering since this whole thread started how long it would take for you to be compared to Mr. Spitzer. Looks like about a day and a half and 120 posts! :laugh:

Time to razz you keys... you surely don't use an escort service... you ARE the escort service! :beer:

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Apparently I'm a day late to the discussion (and beaten by Derek no less), but I'd like to weigh in all the same.

I've been on the AT forums for nearly 10 years now and I've seen a lot of things, none of which quite compare to this. Congrats to keys, I'm sure this is a big thing for him/her/it. But I disagree with the assertion that having a moderator working for NV's focus group isn't a problem.

Make no mistake, Keys has been an excellent moderator; I once told Derek that this public mod thing would flop hard when he asked my opinion of it, and mods like Keys are much of the reason that it hasn't. But one simply can't ignore the conflict of interest that results from a moderator also being employed by a company with a stake in what happens on these forums.

I have never seen a moderation action by Keys that I would consider inappropriate, but I'm presuming here that Keys is human and not some top-secret turing test defeating AI. People can be influenced by external factors and it happens to the best of us, and I don't think Keys is any more immune. Some day a situation may arise where perhaps his coveted focus group position comes in to jeopardy, or a situation where as a mod he makes a decision based off of faulty/incomplete/incorrect information based on his position within NV, and in such a situation it's entirely possible (if not probable) that he could screw up; he's only human after all. I think however little the chance of such a thing happening, it is now too much of a chance to be left to chance; corrections must be made so that such a thing may never happen.

Furthermore it just flat-out looks bad that one of our moderators are on the NV payroll. It looks bad for the forums and is going to generate a nagging feeling that Keys isn't moderating on the level, and such a feeling will never go away. Even if he were some perfect machine, it's going to make forum members and the lurkers suspicious, which is undermining to the AT Video community. Hell, I could even see this being spun against AT itself, since AT is allowing such a conflict of interest; there's certainly no shortage of people who think AT is on the NV/ATi/Intel/RAMBUS dole and this could very well make it worse.

But to wrap things up, I have to disagree with Keys and Derek here. Keys has been a great moderator, but if he will be part of the NV focus group he should be a moderator no more. There needs to be a clear separation between the mere mortals and those with a vested interest in these forums, and that includes only the mere mortals doing the moderating - Keys is no longer a mere mortal. I have never, ever said something like this before, but I believe it would be best for the forums if Keys was no longer a moderator from this point on. And I think it would be best for Keys if this is something he did voluntarily sooner than later.

Keys would be a tough loss as a moderator, but this is a strong forum and from the mod voting we know there are other capable people to moderate this forum that I suspect are able to do as good of a job as Keys. We can replace the moderator, but we may never be able to replace the loss of trust and community should something shameful happen.

Very well said Virge. But I am still waiting for an example of how my being a member of the focus group would affect my moderating duties? Exactly how? I uphold the TOS and Guidelines. And besides all of this, you're not even waiting to see how it goes (which I truly believe will be fine). You, and others have "pre-decided" what is going to happen. You are speculating on something that you "think" might happen in the future.

What interest does this conflict with?

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Apparently I'm a day late to the discussion (and beaten by Derek no less), but I'd like to weigh in all the same.

I've been on the AT forums for nearly 10 years now and I've seen a lot of things, none of which quite compare to this. Congrats to keys, I'm sure this is a big thing for him/her/it. But I disagree with the assertion that having a moderator working for NV's focus group isn't a problem.

Make no mistake, Keys has been an excellent moderator; I once told Derek that this public mod thing would flop hard when he asked my opinion of it, and mods like Keys are much of the reason that it hasn't. But one simply can't ignore the conflict of interest that results from a moderator also being employed by a company with a stake in what happens on these forums.

I have never seen a moderation action by Keys that I would consider inappropriate, but I'm presuming here that Keys is human and not some top-secret turing test defeating AI. People can be influenced by external factors and it happens to the best of us, and I don't think Keys is any more immune. Some day a situation may arise where perhaps his coveted focus group position comes in to jeopardy, or a situation where as a mod he makes a decision based off of faulty/incomplete/incorrect information based on his position within NV, and in such a situation it's entirely possible (if not probable) that he could screw up; he's only human after all. I think however little the chance of such a thing happening, it is now too much of a chance to be left to chance; corrections must be made so that such a thing may never happen.

Furthermore it just flat-out looks bad that one of our moderators are on the NV payroll. It looks bad for the forums and is going to generate a nagging feeling that Keys isn't moderating on the level, and such a feeling will never go away. Even if he were some perfect machine, it's going to make forum members and the lurkers suspicious, which is undermining to the AT Video community. Hell, I could even see this being spun against AT itself, since AT is allowing such a conflict of interest; there's certainly no shortage of people who think AT is on the NV/ATi/Intel/RAMBUS dole and this could very well make it worse.

But to wrap things up, I have to disagree with Keys and Derek here. Keys has been a great moderator, but if he will be part of the NV focus group he should be a moderator no more. There needs to be a clear separation between the mere mortals and those with a vested interest in these forums, and that includes only the mere mortals doing the moderating - Keys is no longer a mere mortal. I have never, ever said something like this before, but I believe it would be best for the forums if Keys was no longer a moderator from this point on. And I think it would be best for Keys if this is something he did voluntarily sooner than later.

Keys would be a tough loss as a moderator, but this is a strong forum and from the mod voting we know there are other capable people to moderate this forum that I suspect are able to do as good of a job as Keys. We can replace the moderator, but we may never be able to replace the loss of trust and community should something shameful happen.

Very well said Virge. But I am still waiting for an example of how my being a member of the focus group would affect my moderating duties? Exactly how? I uphold the TOS and Guidelines. And besides all of this, you're not even waiting to see how it goes (which I truly believe will be fine). You, and others have "pre-decided" what is going to happen. You are speculating on something that you "think" might happen in the future.

What interest does this conflict with?

I think that if we have to wait for something to happen before you step down, it'll be too late. It's better to be safe than sorry.

As for the specific conflict, you're on the NVIDIA payroll; it would probably benefit NVIDIA if you were ever so slightly harsher on ATI fanboys being asses than NV fanboys being asses, basically resulting in your mod powers helping to win arguments. It doesn't need to be explicit, it can be something ever so subtle as Rollo-like troll and his ATI counterpart going at each other acting like asses, and you unwittingly back up the NV troll because you have additional inside information that agrees with his points. This wouldn't be something you'd do intentionally, but it's something that would be unfair and a result of your conflicting positions. It's admittedly contrived, but it's a crazy situation like that where something will happen; I wouldn't expect you to knowingly or systematically misuse your powers.

 

[will889]

Split the forums into General, and NV and then ATI. Keys modding the NV section would be a non issue and then at the same time he wouldn't be a factor in the ATI section. The forums would look better organized structurally like that anyway and you then can keep a valuable moderator like Keys.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: will889
Split the forums into General, and NV and then ATI. Keys modding the NV section would be a non issue and then at the same time he wouldn't be a factor in the ATI section. The forums would look better organized structurally like that anyway and you then can keep a valuable moderator like Keys.

That would be impossible, as then we couldn't have head-to-head discussions and such. That would really be doing a disservice to the video & graphics members even more than keys being in the position he's in.

Keys, the conflict that people are having is all perception-based. It has nothing to do with whether or not you'll be a great mod. Draw from your own experiences in life - perception has EVERYTHING to do with it. The perception that is made here is that you're now sponsored by NVIDIA, and because of that you will be biased, and by extension holding the position you do that position will become biased and by extension abused. You can say whatever you want to to everybody here - but their own perception has become biased simply because you now have "NVIDIA" tatoo'd on your arm, and they are going to think that you're just saying you'll be impartial because that's what you think they want to hear - they aren't going to believe you just because you say it.

While all of that may not be true at all in your particular case - it's the perception that counts. Turning this into a P&N thread - it's the same reason why racism, anti-religion, sexism, etc., all still exist today. People can't see past their perceptions.

With that said, if ATI comes by and offers me some focus group stuff... I'll petition to be a V&G mod to balance things out.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Apparently I'm a day late to the discussion (and beaten by Derek no less), but I'd like to weigh in all the same.

I've been on the AT forums for nearly 10 years now and I've seen a lot of things, none of which quite compare to this. Congrats to keys, I'm sure this is a big thing for him/her/it. But I disagree with the assertion that having a moderator working for NV's focus group isn't a problem.

Make no mistake, Keys has been an excellent moderator; I once told Derek that this public mod thing would flop hard when he asked my opinion of it, and mods like Keys are much of the reason that it hasn't. But one simply can't ignore the conflict of interest that results from a moderator also being employed by a company with a stake in what happens on these forums.

I have never seen a moderation action by Keys that I would consider inappropriate, but I'm presuming here that Keys is human and not some top-secret turing test defeating AI. People can be influenced by external factors and it happens to the best of us, and I don't think Keys is any more immune. Some day a situation may arise where perhaps his coveted focus group position comes in to jeopardy, or a situation where as a mod he makes a decision based off of faulty/incomplete/incorrect information based on his position within NV, and in such a situation it's entirely possible (if not probable) that he could screw up; he's only human after all. I think however little the chance of such a thing happening, it is now too much of a chance to be left to chance; corrections must be made so that such a thing may never happen.

Furthermore it just flat-out looks bad that one of our moderators are on the NV payroll. It looks bad for the forums and is going to generate a nagging feeling that Keys isn't moderating on the level, and such a feeling will never go away. Even if he were some perfect machine, it's going to make forum members and the lurkers suspicious, which is undermining to the AT Video community. Hell, I could even see this being spun against AT itself, since AT is allowing such a conflict of interest; there's certainly no shortage of people who think AT is on the NV/ATi/Intel/RAMBUS dole and this could very well make it worse.

But to wrap things up, I have to disagree with Keys and Derek here. Keys has been a great moderator, but if he will be part of the NV focus group he should be a moderator no more. There needs to be a clear separation between the mere mortals and those with a vested interest in these forums, and that includes only the mere mortals doing the moderating - Keys is no longer a mere mortal. I have never, ever said something like this before, but I believe it would be best for the forums if Keys was no longer a moderator from this point on. And I think it would be best for Keys if this is something he did voluntarily sooner than later.

Keys would be a tough loss as a moderator, but this is a strong forum and from the mod voting we know there are other capable people to moderate this forum that I suspect are able to do as good of a job as Keys. We can replace the moderator, but we may never be able to replace the loss of trust and community should something shameful happen.

Very well said Virge. But I am still waiting for an example of how my being a member of the focus group would affect my moderating duties? Exactly how? I uphold the TOS and Guidelines. And besides all of this, you're not even waiting to see how it goes (which I truly believe will be fine). You, and others have "pre-decided" what is going to happen. You are speculating on something that you "think" might happen in the future.

What interest does this conflict with?

I think that if we have to wait for something to happen before you step down, it'll be too late. It's better to be safe than sorry.

As for the specific conflict, you're on the NVIDIA payroll; it would probably benefit NVIDIA if you were ever so slightly harsher on ATI fanboys being asses than NV fanboys being asses, basically resulting in your mod powers helping to win arguments. It doesn't need to be explicit, it can be something ever so subtle as Rollo-like troll and his ATI counterpart going at each other acting like asses, and you unwittingly back up the NV troll because you have additional inside information that agrees with his points. This wouldn't be something you'd do intentionally, but it's something that would be unfair and a result of your conflicting positions. It's admittedly contrived, but it's a crazy situation like that where something will happen; I wouldn't expect you to knowingly or systematically misuse your powers.

But again, you are assuming, assuming a whole ton. It's not about what "side" people are on, but how they conduct themselves in these forums.

Above bolded: ATI fanboys being asses; NVIDIA fanboys being asses

You see these words I have bolded here? That is what I act on. Not because of their video card preferences. If ANYONE behaves like asses, they will be dealt with. What you say "could" happen, or "might" happen, hasn't happened, but you're speaking as if it is some sort of unavoidable destiny. I make my own destiny, Virge. I know the difference between right and wrong, have common sense, and most importantly, I know my own self and what I can and cannot handle. This, I can handle even if you and others, if in a similar position, feel you could not. All I can say is, watch and learn. And I mean that most respectfully.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I think that if we have to wait for something to happen before you step down, it'll be too late. It's better to be safe than sorry.

Actually it's better to trust people and give them the benefit of the doubt, rather than be paranoid and judgmental.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I think that if we have to wait for something to happen before you step down, it'll be too late. It's better to be safe than sorry.

Actually it's better to trust people and give them the benefit of the doubt, rather than be paranoid and judgmental.

While in principle you're right - that's rarely how humans work. You know that just as well as I do.

 

[will889]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
That would be impossible, as then we couldn't have head-to-head discussions and such. That would really be doing a disservice to the video & graphics members even more than keys being in the position he's in.

Hardocp has it that way. NV news has it that way. Rage3d has it that way. Guru3D has it that way. Techreport has it that way (I could go on and on). I don't see it preventing head to head discussions at all in those forums, that would be done in the general forums mostly, but even then you can still have "head to head" in the ATI or NV forums -- the difference is that the NV mod can't shape the particular forum as they see fit with bias while being a member of that particular vendors think tank.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I think that if we have to wait for something to happen before you step down, it'll be too late. It's better to be safe than sorry.

Actually it's better to trust people and give them the benefit of the doubt, rather than be paranoid and judgmental.

While in principle you're right - that's rarely how humans work. You know that just as well as I do.

But by all standards Keys been a good moderator here. So what other standard should he be judged by?