• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

I have an idea how other dimensions and aliens could exist....

Braznor

Diamond Member
Here is the proof.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_incompleteness_theorems

I think Godel's proof could be used to argue that the essential structure of the universe hinges on a greater system outside it. The universe has higher dimensions more than the 4d reality we perceive today. I have a fair idea how different beings could exist in them.

From an article.

In 1931, the Czech-born mathematician Kurt Gödel demonstrated that within any given branch of mathematics, there would always be some propositions that couldn't be proven either true or false using the rules and axioms ... of that mathematical branch itself. You might be able to prove every conceivable statement about numbers within a system by going outside the system in order to come up with new rules and axioms, but by doing so you'll only create a larger system with its own unprovable statements. The implication is that all logical system of any complexity are, by definition, incomplete; each of them contains, at any given time, more true statements than it can possibly prove according to its own defining set of rules.


Here is a simpler explanation of the proof :


Rucker, Infinity and the Mind

The proof of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem is so simple, and so sneaky, that it is almost embarassing to relate. His basic procedure is as follows:

  1. Someone introduces Gödel to a UTM, a machine that is supposed to be a Universal Truth Machine, capable of correctly answering any question at all.
  2. Gödel asks for the program and the circuit design of the UTM. The program may be complicated, but it can only be finitely long. Call the program P(UTM) for Program of the Universal Truth Machine.
  3. Smiling a little, Gödel writes out the following sentence: "The machine constructed on the basis of the program P(UTM) will never say that this sentence is true." Call this sentence G for Gödel. Note that G is equivalent to: "UTM will never say G is true."
  4. Now Gödel laughs his high laugh and asks UTM whether G is true or not.
  5. If UTM says G is true, then "UTM will never say G is true" is false. If "UTM will never say G is true" is false, then G is false (since G = "UTM will never say G is true"). So if UTM says G is true, then G is in fact false, and UTM has made a false statement. So UTM will never say that G is true, since UTM makes only true statements.


  1. We have established that UTM will never say G is true. So "UTM will never say G is true" is in fact a true statement. So G is true (since G = "UTM will never say G is true").
  2. "I know a truth that UTM can never utter," Gödel says. "I know that G is true. UTM is not truly universal.
Think about it - it grows on you ...
With his great mathematical and logical genius, Gödel was able to find a way (for any given P(UTM)) actually to write down a complicated polynomial equation that has a solution if and only if G is true. So G is not at all some vague or non-mathematical sentence. G is a specific mathematical problem that we know the answer to, even though UTM does not! So UTM does not, and cannot, embody a best and final theory of mathematics ...



Although this theorem can be stated and proved in a rigorously mathematical way, what it seems to say is that rational thought can never penetrate to the final ultimate truth ... But, paradoxically, to understand Gödel's proof is to find a sort of liberation. For many logic students, the final breakthrough to full understanding of the Incompleteness Theorem is practically a conversion experience. This is partly a by-product of the potent mystique Gödel's name carries. But, more profoundly, to understand the essentially labyrinthine nature of the castle is, somehow, to be free of it.









Gödel's Theorem has been used to argue that a computer can never be as smart as a human being because the extent of its knowledge is limited by a fixed set of axioms, whereas people can discover unexpected truths ... It plays a part in modern linguistic theories, which emphasize the power of language to come up with new ways to express ideas. And it has been taken to imply that you'll never entirely understand yourself, since your mind, like any other closed system, can only be sure of what it knows about itself by relying on what it knows about itself.

http://www.miskatonic.org/godel.html
 
so what?

this is just a longer way of asking "if God is all powerful, could he make a rock so heavy even he couldn't lift it?"

I swear, philosophers have the most pointless job ever. Universal truth right there.
 
so what?

this is just a longer way of asking "if God is all powerful, could he make a rock so heavy even he couldn't lift it?"

I swear, philosophers have the most pointless job ever. Universal truth right there.

It is a rigid mathematical proof. Not airy philosophical stuff.
 
Basically:

Person 1: God created the Universe.
Person 2: But who create God?
Person 1: God always existed.
Person 2: Why couldn't the Universe always have existed?
Person 1: Because.
 
so what?

this is just a longer way of asking "if God is all powerful, could he make a rock so heavy even he couldn't lift it?"

I swear, philosophers have the most pointless job ever. Universal truth right there.


/AiC

..if God is all~Powerful, why doesn't he have a website


fffFFFFFFffffffffffffffffff
 
I have an idea on how they could exist too. If my room was everything that could be learned, the cumulative human knowledge wouldn't even make a speck of dust stuck in my computer's exhaust fan. We don't know shit about anything, and are trying to piece things together as we can. Our efforts up to this point will look like a bad joke in a couple thousand years after more of what makes the (multi)universe tick gets revealed.
 
Does not negate the truth in my statement?

You became more intelligent as the result of it.


I fully accept the 'Truth' that you quoted someone else's theorem off of Wikipedia.

Accept that, and you'll become less Troll~ish as a result of it.
 
I fully accept the 'Truth' that you quoted someone else's theorem off of Wikipedia.

Accept that, and you'll become less Troll~ish as a result of it.

From the article, oh dear naive stupid innocent American who thinks I'm evil as I call you ....

I represent the true essence of real mankind. The man who demands nothing, hut the very best of his fellowmen and paramount of all, truth. The extensions are which are justice and liberty.

Here is another simpler explanation for this man and his proof:

All the limitative theorems of mathematics and the theory of computation suggest that once the ability to represent your own structure has reached a certain critical point, that is the kiss of death: it guarantees that you can never represent yourself totally.
 
From the article, oh dear naive stupid innocent American who thinks I'm evil as I call you ....


I didn't say you were evil - I implied you were Trollish, and stated that you have merely quoted someone else's theorem.

...and you respond with insults, and another quote from the same source.


In other words: You've accomplished nothing except to further prove my point.
 
From the article, oh dear naive stupid innocent American who thinks I'm evil as I call you ....

I represent the true essence of real mankind. The man who demands nothing, hut the very best of his fellowmen and paramount of all, truth. The extensions are which are justice and liberty.

- Insulting others who don't understand the gibberish you're saying - check
- Prejudiced against Americans - check
- Thinks he is intelligent because he uses big words - check

looks like we've got a eurotroll on our hands
 
- Insulting others who don't understand the gibberish you're saying - check
- Prejudiced against Americans - check
- Thinks he is intelligent because he uses big words - check

looks like we've got a eurotroll on our hands

1. No, actually I'm Indian.

2.I love Americans and what they done for the whole of mankind without regard to race, geopolitics or history. The American contribution to mankind is one without parallel in the modern world. No other country or continent holds a candle to that flame.

3. I think I'm intelligence because I actually use logic.
 
I didn't say you were evil - I implied you were Trollish, and stated that you have merely quoted someone else's theorem.

...and you respond with insults, and another quote from the same source.


In other words: You've accomplished nothing except to further prove my point.

I didn't insult you at all. I just said that you are in denial of reality because of the own goodness of your heart.

Many Americans, especially the rural whites are stupid about their own agenda against them. They are naive and innocent to their own fate at the hands of the liberals who have sold their souls in favor of a stupid internationalism.

Your liberals (I'm sure you are a part of them) sold out America, one of the greatest human moral enterprises in the history of mankind to the devil.

Please do not derail my thread further
 
It's just as airy and philosophical as anything else. But one does not need this crap to realize that there are almost uncertainly other lifeforms out there, most likely a vast, vast collection of them. All one needs is to really get any half decent understanding of how ginormously massive our own galaxy is, how tiny an area of our galaxy we know hardly anything about, and just how many thousands (millions? trillions?) of *other* galaxies there are in the universe to realize that you'd have to be an illogical moronic twit to not think there are other lifeforms out there.
 
I didn't insult you at all. I just said that you are in denial of reality because of the own goodness of your heart.

Many Americans, especially the rural whites are stupid about their own agenda against them. They are naive and innocent to their own fate at the hands of the liberals who have sold their souls in favor of a stupid internationalism.

Your liberals (I'm sure you are a part of them) sold out America, one of the greatest human moral enterprises in the history of mankind to the devil.

Please do not derail my thread further



More veiled Insults, and accusations about my politics (accusations which the P&N folks would laugh at, BTW. Me... a Liberal.. *laugh*)


I will accept this "response" to mean you have no valid argument or refutation and therefore you are, indeed, a Troll who is merely quoting the work of others.
 
More veiled Insults, and accusations about my politics (accusations which the P&N folks would laugh at, BTW. Me... a Liberal.. *laugh*)


I will accept this "response" to mean you have no valid argument or refutation and therefore you are, indeed, a Troll who is merely quoting the work of others.

I did not make accusations or veiled threats.

If you are not a liberal, I congratulate you,

If you are not a liberal and you hate me and everything I stand for L : I still congratulate you for not falling for Obama's tricks.

I'm a Hindu nationalist, but I wish nothing but the very best for the rest of mankind and especially Americans who I want to land on Mars and show humanity can achieve the extraordinary.

You can call me a troll, But in truth I'm an extremely enlightened individual who can accept any truth regardless of faith or creed.

Again, please do not derail my thread.

This is a request.
 
By the way what is wrong if I show other's work?

Especially Godel's?

He was an accomplished mathematician WHO FUCKING GAVE MATHEMATICAL PROOFS OF HIS THEORIES!

Read the above statement again and again until the truth hits you! 🙄

Why are you all judging him unpleasantly just because he proved the truth beyond our existence?
 
By the way what is wrong if I show other's work?

Especially Godel's?

He was an accomplished mathematician WHO FUCKING GAVE MATHEMATICAL PROOFS OF HIS THEORIES!

Read the above statement again and again until the truth hits you! 🙄

Why are you all judging him unpleasantly just because he proved the truth beyond our existence?



*sigh*


I told you I accepted that you quoted his Theorem.

And please show me where I judged him negatively. (hint: You can't. Because I didn't. Moreso since I wasn't even responding to you in the first place... )
 
It's just as airy and philosophical as anything else. But one does not need this crap to realize that there are almost uncertainly other lifeforms out there, most likely a vast, vast collection of them. All one needs is to really get any half decent understanding of how ginormously massive our own galaxy is, how tiny an area of our galaxy we know hardly anything about, and just how many thousands (millions? trillions?) of *other* galaxies there are in the universe to realize that you'd have to be an illogical moronic twit to not think there are other lifeforms out there.

This is pretty much exactly what I stated in another thread recently. There are over 100 BILLION other galaxies out there, each one containing over 100 million to billion stars. It takes a star to host a solar system with planets, and a planet in the goldilocks zone to support life as we understand.

Basically, the math dictates we are not the only life in the universe.

20-30 years ago, a scientist would be laughed at for believing in other lifeforms, now, it is pretty much accepted from what I understand.
 
*sigh*


I told you I accepted that you quoted his Theorem.

And please show me where I judged him negatively. (hint: You can't. Because I didn't. Moreso since I wasn't even responding to you in the first place... )

Do not judge the message by the messenger.

You think I'm a Hindu Nazi, don't you?

I can disagree and agree with you a thousand ways on this any day.

But that's not the point here in this thread, my dear.

You agree Godel's is speaking the truth and by extension of his theorem, my hypothesis is true?
 
Back
Top