I have a potential issue in my family

[Fritzo]

Ahh...hillbilly problems.

 

[PottedMeat]

OP could always seduce the uncle - just get him drunk again

 

[mikeymikec]

"Btw, what you were saying the other day about your son... you weren't serious were you?"

 

[LTC8K6]

If you really think the kid will be beaten, you must go to the authorities. In fact, you should go to the authorities anyway.

 

[Ichinisan]

"Btw, what you were saying the other day about your son... you weren't serious were you?"

"Yeah. He really is a God-damn F@##07. You think I'd make up that kinda shit?"

 

[MotF Bane]

In that situation, both are bigots.

Respect has to go both ways. You expect the uncle to respect his sons sexual preference, but you would not respect the uncles opinion?

That is like the pot calling the kettle black.

That's ridiculous.

 

[mikeymikec]

"Yeah. He really is a God-damn F@##07. You think I'd make up that kinda shit?"

Insert polite conversation terminating comment here. If he asks why, then elaborate, but try to avoid an offensive argument, even if that means terminating it along the lines of "I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because it's a pointless argument, as I won't change my mind and I doubt I can get you to change yours".

 

[mikeymikec]

No, that's like saying, because respect goes both ways, you have to respect Jeffrey Dahmers approach on how to treat casual apartment visitors.

OP, your Uncle needs to hear your views in an as non-confrontational way as you can possibly muster. Your aim is not to "defeat" him in confrontational debate, that will quickly make him angry and defensive and he will tune you out and dismiss you.

Your aim is to gently introduce him, as far as possible, to a different, kinder, more tolerant and enlightened view, not to trump him in an argument.

My personal view is that it would be cowardly not to try, at your first available organic opportunity, by which I mean when you next find yourself in your uncle's company and he brings it up.

Baby steps, nothing strident or forced. Just simply mentioning your different view will likely set your uncle off oratorically. Don't engage, let him get it all out, let him feel his hurt and outrage is heard, this is important.

Then CALMLY and matter of factly put forth your more accepting and "common sense" view in as low key a way as possible. Your uncle may attack you and your view verbally. Don't take the bait, don't respond in kind.

Your are the hate doctor here, attempting to lance the long festering boil of bigotry on your uncle's heart. This may sound funny to you, but it is vitally important that you have compassion for your uncle, who is a product of his upbringing.

Only if you truly have personal compassion for him will you best stand a chance of reaching him.

And that is your sole task, to simply, patiently begin the process of trying to plant the seed of enlightened acceptance in your uncle's blighted and wounded heart.

Baby steps.

Your cousin needs your help. He is hurting. And he is family. You are an adult. It won't be easy and you may not be successful, but you can help. How can you not try?

I agree with this pretty much 100%, though I would add that the OP shouldn't expect to succeed in altering the uncle's views. Some opinions are introduced in childhood, built up over the years because they're not challenged in a useful way, until older age pretty much turns them to stone.

 

[Dari]

No, that's like saying, because respect goes both ways, you have to respect Jeffrey Dahmers approach on how to treat casual apartment visitors.

OP, your Uncle needs to hear your views in an as non-confrontational way as you can possibly muster. Your aim is not to "defeat" him in confrontational debate, that will quickly make him angry and defensive and he will tune you out and dismiss you.

Your aim is to gently introduce him, as far as possible, to a different, kinder, more tolerant and enlightened view, not to trump him in an argument.

My personal view is that it would be cowardly not to try, at your first available organic opportunity, by which I mean when you next find yourself in your uncle's company and he brings it up.

Baby steps, nothing strident or forced. Just simply mentioning your different view will likely set your uncle off oratorically. Don't engage, let him get it all out, let him feel his hurt and outrage is heard, this is important.

Then CALMLY and matter of factly put forth your more accepting and "common sense" view in as low key a way as possible. Your uncle may attack you and your view verbally. Don't take the bait, don't respond in kind.

Your are the hate doctor here, attempting to lance the long festering boil of bigotry on your uncle's heart. This may sound funny to you, but it is vitally important that you have compassion for your uncle, who is a product of his upbringing.

Only if you truly have personal compassion for him will you best stand a chance of reaching him.

And that is your sole task, to simply, patiently begin the process of trying to plant the seed of enlightened acceptance in your uncle's blighted and wounded heart.

Baby steps.

Your cousin needs your help. He is hurting. And he is family. You are an adult. It won't be easy and you may not be successful, but you can help. How can you not try?

Yes but where do I start? I mean, the guy believes that homosexuality is a choice. How do you counter that? How do you talk to someone who is 30 years your senior? I think he respects me because I'm a good listener but he comes from a proud Texan family. If I was his son I'd get married, have some kids, and do my dirt away from the family. I know, it's not who he is but sometimes you have to put your family before yourself. That's my thinking and it may be wrong. But that's me. How do you have a man come to terms with his son being gay?

I don't think I'm cut out for this but he may listen to me since, like I said before, he sees me as a good listener. But where do I start?

 

[mikeymikec]

Yes but where do I start? I mean, the guy believes that homosexuality is a choice. How do you counter that?

I would probably ask him whether he thinks he could somehow choose to start being attracted to guys. If he follows his own logic, is a guy who is more of a "bum person" (ie. finds women's bottoms more attractive than say legs or breasts) "probably gay" or "more likely to be gay"?

How do you talk to someone who is 30 years your senior?

I have arguments/discussions with my dad all the time, and his friends. Current events, politics, literature, whatever. Don't you?

I think he respects me because I'm a good listener but he comes from a proud Texan family. If I was his son I'd get married, have some kids, and do my dirt away from the family. I know, it's not who he is but sometimes you have to put your family before yourself. That's my thinking and it may be wrong. But that's me. How do you have a man come to terms with his son being gay?

I'm not sure what you mean with the "doing my dirt" bit, so I'll ignore it.

You probably won't, but you can cause him to actually think about it for a short while (probably not).

I don't think I'm cut out for this but he may listen to me since, like I said before, he sees me as a good listener. But where do I start?

I mentioned a conversation starter earlier on page 2. It may be seen as mildly confrontational, but as long as you stay calm when making your point and listen to his carefully, and if he gets abusive, I made a suggestion in that scenario as well.

 

[Platypus]

You don't have to set out with the goal of changing people, some people just won't ever change. I think having a gay son will help him understand it a bit more though. You should however, as a decent human being, correct that kind of ignorant bullshit and put it in check on the spot.

The father is in denial and using the 'choice' argument as a way to justify what his son is doing, as if by doing it on purpose it's easier to swallow for him. It's hard for him to understand that his son wasn't given a choice and is likely feeling miserable and alone right now.

Tell him that the conversation you had the other night bothered you and then man up and speak your mind. Just like you don't have to agree with his opinion, he doesn't have to agree with yours, but you should still say it because it needs to be said.

If the father is still resistant or ignorant about it, reach out to the kid in private and let him know that you are an ally for him in case he needs someone to talk to. Kid has a tough road ahead but it helps to have people like you who CAN make a difference.

 

[ShawnD1]

Yes but where do I start? I mean, the guy believes that homosexuality is a choice. How do you counter that?

Assume that it's a fact then run with the idea. Agree with the uncle's position. Ask the uncle how he dealt with his homosexual urges when he was that age. He thinks it is a choice because it WAS a choice for him. The uncle is gay. He knows he is gay. After he answers that question (or shrugs it off), throw in a comment like "I'm glad I didn't need to choose gay or straight. I was never attracted to men in the first place."

How do you talk to someone who is 30 years your senior? I think he respects me because I'm a good listener but he comes from a proud Texan family.

Easy. Just talk in a calm voice and do not be confrontational. If you attack someone's position, they will defend it and keep defending it even after it has been proven wrong. I find that the easiest way to screw with people is to agree with their position then say something that is potentially wrong but is logically consistent with their position. See above paragraph. Agree that gay is a choice then use that to imply the uncle has gay sexual urges.
The uncle doesn't sound like the type of person to fact check things or look anything up, so feel free to throw out fake stats about gay people. "The up side is that self-identified gay people typically have incomes that are well above average, they tend to be more educated, and they have a lower risk of developing drug or alcohol problems later in life." I'm pretty sure the last part of that sentence is a complete lie, but he won't fact check it so say it anyway.

If I was his son I'd get married, have some kids, and do my dirt away from the family. I know, it's not who he is but sometimes you have to put your family before yourself.

His family would suck ass. Put yourself in his position and think of how the family would go.
-him sleeping with women is as unappealing as a straight man sleeping with another man
-his wife would obviously not be satisfied in the bed room because of his complete lack of sexual attraction to her
-wife starts sleeping with other men
-wife leaves him because humans almost always feel closer to the people they screw (ie her heterosexual affair boyfriend)
-gay cousin and his straight wife might not hate each other, but the divorce would still be a pain in the ass. custody battles and stuff.
-gay cousin is still gay, so future marriages would probably end up the same way

Option B is to tell the son to stay in the closet and say he's not gay anymore. If the uncle thinks gay is a choice, then it should be as simple as saying "you were right dad, being straight is the better choice." It's not really a lie because the wording never actually said "I'm not gay," but it agrees with the uncle's position that straight would be a better (easier) choice.... if it were a choice.

I would just stay in the closet for a while. My girlfriend experienced something similar to this. Her parents are insanely religious, so she couldn't say that she was dating me. We were just friends, she would say. She also couldn't tell them she had sex before. She also couldn't say anything about drinking alcohol even though she's above legal age (18 in Canada). It all changed when she moved out. She could say we were dating and there's really nothing they can do to her. Gay cousin should do this. Stay in the closet, move out, come out of the closet.

 

[Skillet49]

Yes but where do I start? I mean, the guy believes that homosexuality is a choice. How do you counter that? How do you talk to someone who is 30 years your senior? I think he respects me because I'm a good listener but he comes from a proud Texan family. If I was his son I'd get married, have some kids, and do my dirt away from the family. I know, it's not who he is but sometimes you have to put your family before yourself. That's my thinking and it may be wrong. But that's me. How do you have a man come to terms with his son being gay?

I don't think I'm cut out for this but he may listen to me since, like I said before, he sees me as a good listener. But where do I start?

IIRC, there is quite a bit of research that demonstrates that homosexuality is not a choice. Besides, given that many homosexuals continue to face a great deal of persecution, why would anyone choose that? Sure there may be a minor few that do, but I'm sure most don't. In addition, homosexuality is found in other species. If he's religious, most people cite the book of Leviticus as to why homosexuality is "wrong." The book of Leviticus also says that we aren't supposed to wear clothes made of more than one fabric along with many other things that most people don't follow or wouldn't consider following anymore.

Like others said, you can present that it's been your experience or understanding that people don't choose to be gay. Maybe try to help him understand what this might be like for his son. You can always talk to your cousin about it, basically just saying you know his dad has ridiculous views on homosexuality and that you're there for him if he needs to talk or whatever.

I really am surprised to hear you say that if you were him you would pretend to be heterosexual. So basically if your family wanted you to marry a man and adopt kids with him you would do it? You'd have sex with a man because your parents or family wants you to? Normally I'm an advocate for people considering their family's point of view instead of the usual 'you're an adult, screw your parents if they want you to do something you don't want to.' Sometimes we make sacrifices for family and it's important to give and take in relationships. However, sexual identity is a large part of who we are. Can you imagine how hard it would be to day in and day out have to live a lifestyle that doesn't fit you just because your family can't accept you for who you are? Part of being a family is respecting each other's differences even if you don't agree with them. His dad may never get there, and it's not your job to make him get there. But what you can do is set a good example for supporting your cousin. It is your uncle's loss if he doesn't continue to have a relationship with his son because he is gay.

 

[3chordcharlie]

In that situation, both are bigots.

Respect has to go both ways. You expect the uncle to respect his sons sexual preference, but you would not respect the uncles opinion?

That is like the pot calling the kettle black.

Equivocation
Making your stinky turd
Smell like roses. Not.

 

[KeithP]

Yes but where do I start? I mean, the guy believes that homosexuality is a choice. How do you counter that?

How is that even relevant? Whether it is a choice or not doesn't matter.

-KeithP

 

[Muse]

You're in Texas, I think this makes it more difficult. I think you should contact an organization that can counsel you if you can't muster the courage, resolve, gumption, fortitude to deal with it on your own, preferably one with representatives (or the organization itself) based in Texas. Yes, you're getting some of that here, but the one poster from Texas here is completely unsympathetic, and in any case you can't converse with anyone in the forum one on one, not unless you set it up with a PM. There are hotlines out there, you better believe there are intelligent and sympathetic, experienced voices and it's free. And I agree with the poster who said that if it comes down to violence, the authorities should be contacted. However, you want to preempt that from ever happening.

 

[skyking]

You don't have to set out with the goal of changing people, some people just won't ever change. I think having a gay son will help him understand it a bit more though. You should however, as a decent human being, correct that kind of ignorant bullshit and put it in check on the spot.

The father is in denial and using the 'choice' argument as a way to justify what his son is doing, as if by doing it on purpose it's easier to swallow for him. It's hard for him to understand that his son wasn't given a choice and is likely feeling miserable and alone right now.

Tell him that the conversation you had the other night bothered you and then man up and speak your mind. Just like you don't have to agree with his opinion, he doesn't have to agree with yours, but you should still say it because it needs to be said.

If the father is still resistant or ignorant about it, reach out to the kid in private and let him know that you are an ally for him in case he needs someone to talk to. Kid has a tough road ahead but it helps to have people like you who CAN make a difference.

If you want to do the right thing, do the bolded part at the very least. All of the above is good but the young man needs to know that somebody he has known and respected all his life thinks no different about him, respects him. it could be life and death.

 

[Dari]

You're in Texas, I think this makes it more difficult. I think you should contact an organization that can counsel you if you can't muster the courage, resolve, gumption, fortitude to deal with it on your own, preferably one with representatives (or the organization itself) based in Texas. Yes, you're getting some of that here, but the one poster from Texas here is completely unsympathetic, and in any case you can't converse with anyone in the forum one on one, not unless you set it up with a PM. There are hotlines out there, you better believe there are intelligent and sympathetic, experienced voices and it's free. And I agree with the poster who said that if it comes down to violence, the authorities should be contacted. However, you want to preempt that from ever happening.

I'm not in Texas. I live in New York. The uncle was visiting New York and you could see the disgust on his face when he was here.

 

[Locut0s]

that seems pretty fair.

being fat and gay is just terrible. your uncle should encourage his son to lose weight and start hitting the gym.

straight guys tend to have an easier time being fat, because they can still land a girl with the promise of being a good provider.

gay guys have no such line of appeal with other gay guys unless they're fiendishly wealthy and willing to be a sugar daddy.

I've seen lots of larger gay couples. But they were older.

 

[JS80]

In that situation, both are bigots.

Respect has to go both ways. You expect the uncle to respect his sons sexual preference, but you would not respect the uncles opinion?

That is like the pot calling the kettle black.

lol i hope for your sake you are trolling

 

[Muse]

I'm not in Texas. I live in New York. The uncle was visiting New York and you could see the disgust on his face when he was here.

OK, so your uncle and cousin live in Texas?

 

[Jeff7]

IIRC, there is quite a bit of research that demonstrates that homosexuality is not a choice. Besides, given that many homosexuals continue to face a great deal of persecution, why would anyone choose that? Sure there may be a minor few that do, but I'm sure most don't. In addition, homosexuality is found in other species. If he's religious, most people cite the book of Leviticus as to why homosexuality is "wrong." The book of Leviticus also says that we aren't supposed to wear clothes made of more than one fabric along with many other things that most people don't follow or wouldn't consider following anymore.
...

"You can’t rationally argue out what wasn’t rationally argued in."

 

[epidemis]

Let him have his anti-gay thing. It bring colours to an already-too-conforming world.


/Rebelling against my liberal indoctrination

 

[Jetster...]

Your a dick for not saying anything. Your wife is right. Let me rephrase that. Your spineless and a shell of a man. All you had to say was leave him the fuck alone or he will never talk to you again. You cant control other people and everyone has the right to choose there lifestyle. This isn't Iran.

 

[Texashiker]

No, that's like saying, because respect goes both ways, you have to respect Jeffrey Dahmers approach on how to treat casual apartment visitors.

Last I heard, murder was a crime.

OP, your Uncle needs to hear your views in an as non-confrontational way as you can possibly muster. Your aim is not to "defeat" him in confrontational debate, that will quickly make him angry and defensive and he will tune you out and dismiss you.

Why is it ok to confront the uncle, but its not ok for the uncle to have an opinion that is different from the nephew?

Respect goes both ways.

If the uncle objects to his sons sexual preference, so be it.

If the nephew objects to the uncles opinion, then so be it.

It is not the place of one or the other to try and force their viewpoints on the other party.