I hate how the NBA draft sometimes plays out.

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: vi edit

So the players should put the league before themselves? Until the league steps in and changes the "rules" (which I'm sure the NBA will... gotta love Stern), why shouldn't the player protect themselves, their pocket books and their own dreams and wants?

FYI, there's tons of parity in the NFL too.

Simply put, if the NBA didn't exist then these guys would either be playing some d-league ball for barely above minimum wage or some other profession that pays them a fraction of what they would make even playing for bottom end team.

the NBA doesn't exist as a courtesy to young men aspiring to be better basketball stars. It's there to make money.

This. I mean seriously, this is stupid. Out of college, most young professionals HAVE to prove they're worth the money, right? So why should it be any different for these kids? Come out, impress everyone on a bad team and then get max contract. If you don't like it, go play in Europe where things are completely different.

Or, possibly suck, or blow out a knee and miss out on the fat contract?

 

[wkabel23]

Originally posted by: vi edit

So the players should put the league before themselves? Until the league steps in and changes the "rules" (which I'm sure the NBA will... gotta love Stern), why shouldn't the player protect themselves, their pocket books and their own dreams and wants?

FYI, there's tons of parity in the NFL too.

Simply put, if the NBA didn't exist then these guys would either be playing some d-league ball for barely above minimum wage or some other profession that pays them a fraction of what they would make even playing for bottom end team.

the NBA doesn't exist as a courtesy to young men aspiring to be better basketball stars. It's there to make money.

On one hand you're saying the NBA is a business, but on the other you're upset at these players for participating in that business. Which one is it?

 

[Homerboy]

Let me add one thing more... I do WISH that the league would make it harder/impossible for these kids to manipulate the system as they do. I wish it was "you are drafted by XYZ you now play for XYZ" But its not that way. Nor will it ever be that way sadly. The kids (their agents) are just playing in the system that they have been put into. And who isn't going to take advantage of that system for personal gain; whether it be for more money, more prestige, or playing for your dream team?

It's not the players, its the system. Be pissed at Stern/The NBA. But that isn't going to change squat.

 

[dougp]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: vi edit

So the players should put the league before themselves? Until the league steps in and changes the "rules" (which I'm sure the NBA will... gotta love Stern), why shouldn't the player protect themselves, their pocket books and their own dreams and wants?

FYI, there's tons of parity in the NFL too.

Simply put, if the NBA didn't exist then these guys would either be playing some d-league ball for barely above minimum wage or some other profession that pays them a fraction of what they would make even playing for bottom end team.

the NBA doesn't exist as a courtesy to young men aspiring to be better basketball stars. It's there to make money.

So those players can't aspire to make the most that is available to them? They must "suffer" (I use the term loosely) for the benefit of the league? "Take one or the team/league." Yeah... so many people do that for their employer.

They are making the most that is available to them. So what, they play for the Clippers for 3 years at max rookie contract and can then go where they please. They'll simply get more playing time with a crappier team and allow them to prove who they are. Do you think Derrick Rose would have started if the was drafted by the Lakers, Nuggets, Spurs, Magic, Cavs or Celtics? Highly doubtful - but he was drafted by a team that needed him, and he fit perfectly, carrying them to a playoff seed and taking the reigning champs to 7 games with what could possible be the best playoff series of the past 15 years?

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: vi edit

So the players should put the league before themselves? Until the league steps in and changes the "rules" (which I'm sure the NBA will... gotta love Stern), why shouldn't the player protect themselves, their pocket books and their own dreams and wants?

FYI, there's tons of parity in the NFL too.

Simply put, if the NBA didn't exist then these guys would either be playing some d-league ball for barely above minimum wage or some other profession that pays them a fraction of what they would make even playing for bottom end team.

the NBA doesn't exist as a courtesy to young men aspiring to be better basketball stars. It's there to make money.

So those players can't aspire to make the most that is available to them? They must "suffer" (I use the term loosely) for the benefit of the league? "Take one or the team/league." Yeah... so many people do that for their employer.

They are making the most that is available to them. So what, they play for the Clippers for 3 years at max rookie contract and can then go where they please. They'll simply get more playing time with a crappier team and allow them to prove who they are. Do you think Derrick Rose would have started if the was drafted by the Lakers, Nuggets, Spurs, Magic, Cavs or Celtics? Highly doubtful - but he was drafted by a team that needed him, and he fit perfectly, carrying them to a playoff seed and taking the reigning champs to 7 games with what could possible be the best playoff series of the past 15 years?

But you're missing the point. It was his CHOICE.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: vi edit

So the players should put the league before themselves? Until the league steps in and changes the "rules" (which I'm sure the NBA will... gotta love Stern), why shouldn't the player protect themselves, their pocket books and their own dreams and wants?

FYI, there's tons of parity in the NFL too.

Simply put, if the NBA didn't exist then these guys would either be playing some d-league ball for barely above minimum wage or some other profession that pays them a fraction of what they would make even playing for bottom end team.

the NBA doesn't exist as a courtesy to young men aspiring to be better basketball stars. It's there to make money.

This. I mean seriously, this is stupid. Out of college, most young professionals HAVE to prove they're worth the money, right? So why should it be any different for these kids? Come out, impress everyone on a bad team and then get max contract. If you don't like it, go play in Europe where things are completely different.

BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO AND CAN STILL GET PAID!

and since you seem to be clueless about basketball, most of the top prospects have already proven themselves and have been scouted for years before they enter the draft.

hell last night on a 60 minutes repeat, they were talking about how Lebron had NBA scouts at his 6th grade games. 6TH GRADE!. that is 6 years before he graduated highschool and was drafted.

so in those 6 years, he had proven himself enough to the scouts that he can make it big in the NBA.

 

[Homerboy]

If you want to talk about shitty/stupid rules in the NBA... talk about the "One and Done" rule. So fucking brilliant.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
If you want to talk about shitty/stupid rules in the NBA...talk about retired players contracts being part of trade deals to satisfy the monetary component.

yep

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Homerboy
If you want to talk about shitty/stupid rules in the NBA...talk about retired players contracts being part of trade deals to satisfy the monetary component.

yep

That too.

 

[Baked]

It's not the players who are manipulating the system, you're give them way too much credit, it's their agents fucking up the system and making hell for everybody. According to ESPN, Scott Boras is the "adviser" for this year's MLB #1 pick by the Nationals, Stephen Strasburg. Boras has been teaching this kid to hold out as long as possible to get the most money. National's draft pick from last year, Aaron Crow, didn't sign with them and ended up going back to this year's draft, AFAIK Boras is also Crow's "adviser." The guy's a fucking assshat.

 

[dougp]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: vi edit

So the players should put the league before themselves? Until the league steps in and changes the "rules" (which I'm sure the NBA will... gotta love Stern), why shouldn't the player protect themselves, their pocket books and their own dreams and wants?

FYI, there's tons of parity in the NFL too.

Simply put, if the NBA didn't exist then these guys would either be playing some d-league ball for barely above minimum wage or some other profession that pays them a fraction of what they would make even playing for bottom end team.

the NBA doesn't exist as a courtesy to young men aspiring to be better basketball stars. It's there to make money.

This. I mean seriously, this is stupid. Out of college, most young professionals HAVE to prove they're worth the money, right? So why should it be any different for these kids? Come out, impress everyone on a bad team and then get max contract. If you don't like it, go play in Europe where things are completely different.

BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO AND CAN STILL GET PAID!

and since you seem to be clueless about basketball, most of the top prospects have already proven themselves and have been scouted for years before they enter the draft.

hell last night on a 60 minutes repeat, they were talking about how Lebron had NBA scouts at his 6th grade games. 6TH GRADE!. that is 6 years before he graduated highschool and was drafted.

so in those 6 years, he had proven himself enough to the scouts that he can make it big in the NBA.

Yes, I'm clueless. You're comparing top picks to fucking LeBron James. You're a fucking waste of time and the retarded ass comments in this thread are ridiculous. When you got a job out of college, you started on the bottom - you were unproven. This years draft BLOWS at depth, and many of the "top" prospects wouldn't be chosen in the top 10-20 the past few years.

It's simple - if these kids WANT to play, they will be stuck contending to be on a shitty team if they hold out till next year. It doesn't matter when they put their eligibility in - odds are against them playing for an actual contender. Make the best of it and get the max damn rookie contract. Piss off a team enough by holding out on a contract, and they'll just hold on to your rights and make sure you never play in the NBA.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: dougp

Yes, I'm clueless. You're comparing top picks to fucking LeBron James. You're a fucking waste of time and the retarded ass comments in this thread are ridiculous. When you got a job out of college, you started on the bottom - you were unproven. This years draft BLOWS at depth, and many of the "top" prospects wouldn't be chosen in the top 10-20 the past few years.

It's simple - if these kids WANT to play, they will be stuck contending to be on a shitty team if they hold out till next year. It doesn't matter when they put their eligibility in - odds are against them playing for an actual contender. Make the best of it and get the max damn rookie contract. Piss off a team enough by holding out on a contract, and they'll just hold on to your rights and make sure you never play in the NBA.

This "you start at the bottom" is the WORST argument possible. These are the TOP 10-20 PICKS we're discussing right? So you think the top graduate from MIT, Harvard, Oxford, Berkley etc all start in the mail-room at the top firm in their respective fields? No... they end up getting to pick and choose who they work for (whether that be for monetary gain, prestige, or just personal preference).

 

[dougp]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: dougp

Yes, I'm clueless. You're comparing top picks to fucking LeBron James. You're a fucking waste of time and the retarded ass comments in this thread are ridiculous. When you got a job out of college, you started on the bottom - you were unproven. This years draft BLOWS at depth, and many of the "top" prospects wouldn't be chosen in the top 10-20 the past few years.

It's simple - if these kids WANT to play, they will be stuck contending to be on a shitty team if they hold out till next year. It doesn't matter when they put their eligibility in - odds are against them playing for an actual contender. Make the best of it and get the max damn rookie contract. Piss off a team enough by holding out on a contract, and they'll just hold on to your rights and make sure you never play in the NBA.

This "you start at the bottom" is the WORST argument possible. These are the TOP 10-20 PICKS we're discussing right? So you think the top graduate from MIT, Harvard, Oxford, Berkley etc all start in the mail-room at the top firm in their respective fields? No... they end up getting to pick and choose who they work for (whether that be for monetary gain, prestige, or just personal preference).

Except that's not how it works here - there's a system in place to prevent stacking. If you want to allow the draftee's to pick where they want to go, JUST HAVE TWO TEAMS AND LET THEM PLAY YEAR ROUND. Your argument is fucking ridiculous to begin with Homer. As someone stated, this is a business and it's there to make money. This means having the draft system in place and allowing EVERYONE to compete.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: dougp

Yes, I'm clueless. You're comparing top picks to fucking LeBron James. You're a fucking waste of time and the retarded ass comments in this thread are ridiculous. When you got a job out of college, you started on the bottom - you were unproven. This years draft BLOWS at depth, and many of the "top" prospects wouldn't be chosen in the top 10-20 the past few years.

It's simple - if these kids WANT to play, they will be stuck contending to be on a shitty team if they hold out till next year. It doesn't matter when they put their eligibility in - odds are against them playing for an actual contender. Make the best of it and get the max damn rookie contract. Piss off a team enough by holding out on a contract, and they'll just hold on to your rights and make sure you never play in the NBA.

This "you start at the bottom" is the WORST argument possible. These are the TOP 10-20 PICKS we're discussing right? So you think the top graduate from MIT, Harvard, Oxford, Berkley etc all start in the mail-room at the top firm in their respective fields? No... they end up getting to pick and choose who they work for (whether that be for monetary gain, prestige, or just personal preference).

Except that's not how it works here - there's a system in place to prevent stacking. If you want to allow the draftee's to pick where they want to go, JUST HAVE TWO TEAMS AND LET THEM PLAY YEAR ROUND. Your argument is fucking ridiculous to begin with Homer. As someone stated, this is a business and it's there to make money. This means having the draft system in place and allowing EVERYONE to compete.

don't bother replying homer, he already said he's clueless, which is clearly shown in this thread.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: dougp

Yes, I'm clueless. You're comparing top picks to fucking LeBron James. You're a fucking waste of time and the retarded ass comments in this thread are ridiculous. When you got a job out of college, you started on the bottom - you were unproven. This years draft BLOWS at depth, and many of the "top" prospects wouldn't be chosen in the top 10-20 the past few years.

It's simple - if these kids WANT to play, they will be stuck contending to be on a shitty team if they hold out till next year. It doesn't matter when they put their eligibility in - odds are against them playing for an actual contender. Make the best of it and get the max damn rookie contract. Piss off a team enough by holding out on a contract, and they'll just hold on to your rights and make sure you never play in the NBA.

This "you start at the bottom" is the WORST argument possible. These are the TOP 10-20 PICKS we're discussing right? So you think the top graduate from MIT, Harvard, Oxford, Berkley etc all start in the mail-room at the top firm in their respective fields? No... they end up getting to pick and choose who they work for (whether that be for monetary gain, prestige, or just personal preference).

Except that's not how it works here - there's a system in place to prevent stacking. If you want to allow the draftee's to pick where they want to go, JUST HAVE TWO TEAMS AND LET THEM PLAY YEAR ROUND. Your argument is fucking ridiculous to begin with Homer. As someone stated, this is a business and it's there to make money. This means having the draft system in place and allowing EVERYONE to compete.

LOL

 

[thegimp03]

Yeah, the NBA draft is retarded. Just because you're the worst team in the league doesn't mean that you're guaranteed a #1 draft pick, even though you really need it; case in point, the Sacramento Kings.

 

[dougp]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: dougp

Yes, I'm clueless. You're comparing top picks to fucking LeBron James. You're a fucking waste of time and the retarded ass comments in this thread are ridiculous. When you got a job out of college, you started on the bottom - you were unproven. This years draft BLOWS at depth, and many of the "top" prospects wouldn't be chosen in the top 10-20 the past few years.

It's simple - if these kids WANT to play, they will be stuck contending to be on a shitty team if they hold out till next year. It doesn't matter when they put their eligibility in - odds are against them playing for an actual contender. Make the best of it and get the max damn rookie contract. Piss off a team enough by holding out on a contract, and they'll just hold on to your rights and make sure you never play in the NBA.

This "you start at the bottom" is the WORST argument possible. These are the TOP 10-20 PICKS we're discussing right? So you think the top graduate from MIT, Harvard, Oxford, Berkley etc all start in the mail-room at the top firm in their respective fields? No... they end up getting to pick and choose who they work for (whether that be for monetary gain, prestige, or just personal preference).

Except that's not how it works here - there's a system in place to prevent stacking. If you want to allow the draftee's to pick where they want to go, JUST HAVE TWO TEAMS AND LET THEM PLAY YEAR ROUND. Your argument is fucking ridiculous to begin with Homer. As someone stated, this is a business and it's there to make money. This means having the draft system in place and allowing EVERYONE to compete.

don't bother replying homer, he already said he's clueless, which is clearly shown in this thread.

Yah, whatever. Explain to me why they should be allowed to choose where they play? Yah, you can't - there's no good reason. Quick, let's modify the draft because it's completely unfair! Fuck, if you can do that, please convince the government to get rid of taxes - I think those are unfair too.

Grow. the. fuck. up.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

While I generally hate jocks with bazillion dollar salaries that whine about their contracts I side with the guys who have an issue with the draft. How would a lawyer or engineer or business major react if they got out of college and had to work in whichever awful city for whatever lameass company picked them out of a pool? You'd really just trudge off to a dead-end, menial, soul-crushing job in Detroit without being the slightest bit pissed that you didn't even get a chance to get an exciting position with a great chance for advancement in New York or LA or Seattle? Bullshit! You'd be looking for any way possible to avoid wasting your talents for a boss that doesn't appreciate you. The fact that collective bargaining gives these guys the same rights as slaves doesn't mean they have to be happy about it and it doesn't prevent them from legally working the system to improve their fate.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Best picture of a crybaby ever is Eli holding up a Chargers uniform.

That was true until he stuffed a wounded duck wobbler down the Patriots throat with David Tyree catching it with his helmet, all this after Eli should have been sacked. And of course ultimately ended up winning a Superbowl.

He really doesn't look so stupid now. Especially when the Chargers are the only ones without a Superbowl out of the three top tier QBs taken early in that draft. Also, the Chargers actually wanted Rivers, they drafted Eli knowing the Giants wanted him so they could get more out of their pick as they couldn't come to a trade agreement before the pick. Of course both teams passed on Roethlisberger...

 

[Kelvrick]

If the NBA/NFL/whatever has a problem with it, they'll change it so the draftees have to go to whatever teams draft them. If not, they don't care enough about it.

Especially football, I wouldn't want to go to a sub-par team where I might get injured. IE a quarterback going to a team with no line to speak of or a finesse running back to where you'll be used to pound the dirt play after play and wear out your body.

The system is there, as long as they're working within the system, i don't really care.

 

[vi edit]

I just see the NBA as the corporate head of an organization. If I am employed by a company and they want me to move somewhere else I can voice my complaints, but a majority of the time I either move or find a new employer. It happens to thousands of other people every year.

The catch with the NBA is that it's the only employer of it's type so they have you by the shorthairs.

But you knew the rules of the game before joining.

If these guys don't like it, they can pass the draft and go play international ball or go the d-league route and hope to pick up a deal during tryouts.