stnicralisk
Golden Member
Originally posted by: Kenazo
For those who seem to just be posting here, w/o having read the entire thread, here's my original post in this thread.
Alright, let's check out some verses on speaking in tongues:
Ok, let's look at the original Pentecost:
Acts 2:1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs--we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" 12Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?"
13Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine."
The first question I ask is, what was the reason that these apostles all of a sudden could speak many languages, by miraculous means? It was so that they could spread the word of God to other nations. If I could suddenly speak Swahili with out having studied it, I would be speaking in tongues as the apostles did. There is no mention in the bible that I could find of any apostles babbling off in some unintelagiable language that was not an actual earthly language. Many Religions claim to transfer ppl to some higher level of communications with a deity, nature or whatever. The idea of suddenly being "overcome" by the spirit and speaking in some quacked language doesn't sound like something a Christ that was a true God would cause, if every other religion can do the same thing. Would it feel any less real to those experiencing i? No, I believe it is just something that humans are capable of doing to themselves if they are short on oxygen. Think about it, hyperventalate long enough from either chanting, singing praise and worship music, or breathing in a brown paper bag and you will say all sorts of things that will feel inspired.
Summary: The apostles and the early believers could speak in tongues (other languages) so they could spread the gospel to ppl groups that did not speak their language.
1 Corinthians 14:
1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[3] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[4] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.
13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
20Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21In the Law it is written:
"Through men of strange tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.
22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
34As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.
39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
I like this last passage, especially the Rules for orderly worship found in verses 27-28. I would ask you how many people were speaking in "tongues" at the service you were at? 3, 4, 5, 20? Was there someone interpretting for each of them? If not, the action had no place in the church, assuming that this passage speaks of "tongues" as something other than another earthly language, for the sake of evangelism, but rather speaks of being able to babel in a deistic language.
Finally, what is your focus as a Christian? True, the bible says that believers are to search out the "Greater gifts", but to what point? To worship God, or to edify yourself? How about to reach "the lost" (even though I don't like that term). The problem I have with the entire apostolic movement, and to a vast extent modern Christianity is that it is very self-serving. It has ceased being about "What can I do for God" and changed into "What can God do for me?"
I'm reminded of one further passage:
1 Samuel 15
21 The soldiers took sheep and cattle from the plunder, the best of what was devoted to God, in order to sacrifice them to the LORD your God at Gilgal."
22 But Samuel replied:
"Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD ?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD ,
he has rejected you as king."
Reading that Passage, I am reminded that God's first priority is for us to obey him. All that we do in worship, in outreach, in prayer is quite secondary to living a life of obediance to him. God doesn't require that we have to be 100% perfect to be a christian, however he does require that we try. Speaking in tongues is completely fruitless if we don't live a life of obediance between Sundays.
Anyway, that's my thoughts on this topic, I hope it made some sense.
But with the apostles everyone could understand them.
