I get conservative guys point about public assistance

[buckshot24]

Correct they tell you how the experience was.

Waiting 47 weeks is objectively worse than waiting 2.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Waiting 47 weeks is objectively worse than waiting 2.

It's the whole experience that people are rating so yes that one part would be better but when you tie that to reality which is:
Get diagnosed
Go to a different place for another diagnosis
Go to another place if it's an expensive diagnosis
Then be told you're not eligible
Then begin a massive days to weeks to months long battle with your insurer
Then have the discussion with the doctor where they tell you insurance isn't covering parts of your brain surgery
Go back to doing battle with insurance company
Go to another place to get diagnosed again
Do more battle with the insurance company
They finally concede
Go back to doctor schedule 2 weeks out
Have surgery, then the hospital wants to send you home after a day or maybe even hours
Do battle with insurance company
You won! Yay! More care given for a few days longer
Head home get set up for a dozen specialists for follow up
The first few specialists see you 2 hours late
Bills start coming in and it's one thousand times more expensive than what you were told
Do battle with insurer
Do battle with insurer
Do battle with insurer
Concede and pay ten times the cost, I guess that's a victory?
Specialist who was two hours late bill comes in, repeate the above
Find out someone in England had the same surgery for literally one ten thousandth the cost
Rage
Now another bill came in, repeat the above steps

Get the point
Feel free to reply I'm done the discussion between us is non productive and off topic. However I'll give you credit for not floating the liberals did this or that talk.

 

[buckshot24]

It's the whole experience that people are rating so yes that one part would be better but when you tie that to reality which is:
Get diagnosed
Go to a different place for another diagnosis
Go to another place if it's an expensive diagnosis
Then be told you're not eligible
Then begin a massive days to weeks to months long battle with your insurer
Then have the discussion with the doctor where they tell you insurance isn't covering parts of your brain surgery
Go back to doing battle with insurance company
Go to another place to get diagnosed again
Do more battle with the insurance company
They finally concede
Go back to doctor schedule 2 weeks out
Have surgery, then the hospital wants to send you home after a day or maybe even hours
Do battle with insurance company
You won! Yay! More care given for a few days longer
Head home get set up for a dozen specialists for follow up
The first few specialists see you 2 hours late
Bills start coming in and it's one thousand times more expensive than what you were told
Do battle with insurer
Do battle with insurer
Do battle with insurer
Concede and pay ten times the cost, I guess that's a victory?
Specialist who was two hours late bill comes in, repeate the above
Find out someone in England had the same surgery for literally one ten thousandth the cost
Rage
Now another bill came in, repeat the above steps

Get the point
Feel free to reply I'm done the discussion between us is non productive and off topic. However I'll give you credit for not floating the liberals did this or that talk.

Oh the liberals did something! Believe me.

 

[soundforbjt]

How long do you want to wait for medically necessary services?

People in those countries live longer on average than people here, we are ranked iirc 37th. Healthcare here is great IF YOU'RE RICH, otherwise it sucks compared to other first world nations. Even Trump said Australia 's healthcare is superior to ours.

 

[buckshot24]

People in those countries live longer on average than people here, we are ranked iirc 37th. Healthcare here is great IF YOU'RE RICH, otherwise it sucks compared to other first world nations. Even Trump said Australia 's healthcare is superior to ours.

Life span isn't a single variable function. So please don't act as if it were.

 

[jackstar7]

Oh the liberals did something! Believe me.

At least you punish everyone equally who engages you, regardless of how earnestly they try.

Pedant. Coward. Flat-Earther. Clown. Troll.

 

[buckshot24]

At least you punish everyone equally who engages you, regardless of how earnestly they try.

Pedant. Coward. Flat-Earther. Clown. Troll.

This was another joke. Lighten up.

 

[jackstar7]

This was another joke. Lighten up.

The only joke is you, clown.

 

[buckshot24]

The only joke is you, clown.

My post was still a joke and you took it seriously. I am living rent free in your head. Kick me out.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

You know, he has a point. The entire forum, aside from other degenerates, should just use the ignore function on him. He's clearly a troll and only here for the shit-stirring, so if everyone just ignores the inbred little pig-jackoff, he'll suffocate in the vacuum.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

My post was still a joke and you took it seriously. I am living rent free in your head. Kick me out.

I have to admit this is a pretty funny saying. I might use it some day

 

[Jhhnn]

I already explained it. If you didn't comprehend it's not my problem, it's yours. It means you refuse to understand.

Stay oblivious. It only serves your own obstinance. And protect the rest of the racist lefties in here too. I had little doubt you would distance yourself from them.

You haven't explained anything, merely obfuscated.

The truth is that your "somewhere in the middle" argument is merely deflection from reality.

As is obvious from what they've put out so far, Repubs intend to leave many millions of Americans in the lurch wrt coverage. If Libs compromise, find middle ground, they'll be complicit because millions of Americans will still get screwed, perhaps not as many, and billionaires still get gratuitous tax cuts if not as large.

Repubs have the power to do as they want so it's better to just have them own it.

 

[Jhhnn]

.

 

[nickqt]

You haven't explained anything, merely obfuscated.

The truth is that your "somewhere in the middle" argument is merely deflection from reality.

As is obvious from what they've put out so far, Repubs intend to leave many millions of Americans in the lurch wrt coverage. If Libs compromise, find middle ground, they'll be complicit because millions of Americans will still get screwed, perhaps not as many, and billionaires still get gratuitous tax cuts if not as large.

Repubs have the power to do as they want so it's better to just have them own it.

It's not even that.

Whether it's the shriek of BothSidesDoIt™, or a call for the Democrats to "compromise", the net effect is always the same: let the Republican party drag the country further rightward toward the edge of the cliff.

Notice how the people screaming that BothSidesDoIt™, or demanding that Democrats compromise, somehow never call for Republicans to do the same, and instead start screaming about how the Democrats are overreaching.

Rinse, repeat, more tax cuts for the wealthiest people in the solar system.

 

[Jaskalas]

Do you know what would happen under this plan? A small percentage of people would become very, very rich, and many others would be upper to middle class, while a vast percentage of others would spend everything on crap and be broke, just like it is now. The demographics might shift somewhat, but not appreciably. As much as you would like to assume that this would fix all economic ills, you fail to take human behavior into consideration and assume that everyone would behave to the best of their abilities. Unfortunately, there is a group who will always be shitheads. And, btw, that group encompasses all ethnicities, so I'm not making any sort of racial statement. I am merely commenting on the human condition. A relatively small group of people fuck everything up for everyone else. That's just reality.

That's why we tax them.

Now let's clarify... your argument is based on who screwing it up? Do you think, somehow, poor people screw up UBI? Do tell...
You seem to care what they spend it on, you want to control them. I do not. What harm could they possibly do?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

That's why we tax them.

Now let's clarify... your argument is based on who screwing it up? Do you think, somehow, poor people screw up UBI? Do tell...
You seem to care what they spend it on, you want to control them. I do not. What harm could they possibly do?

My argument is based on those who take advantage of others and those who game the system. They range from the very rich to the very poor.

My argument against UBI is that there would still be very poor people, there would still be very rich people, and I doubt the percentages would be appreciably different than they are now. About the only thing that would change is how the gamers game the new system; and no doubt there would be some economic impacts as well. iow, nothing of consequence would really change. What I am saying has nothing to do with control at all. What I am saying is why change if it isn't going to resolve any of the problems? What is the point?

 

[jackstar7]

My argument is based on those who take advantage of others and those who game the system. They range from the very rich to the very poor.

My argument against UBI is that there would still be very poor people, there would still be very rich people, and I doubt the percentages would be appreciably different than they are now. About the only thing that would change is how the gamers game the new system; and no doubt there would be some economic impacts as well. iow, nothing of consequence would really change. What I am saying has nothing to do with control at all. What I am saying is why change if it isn't going to resolve any of the problems? What is the point?

Okay, you said it.

You don't think the UBI would improve conditions for enough of the 20% of children in poverty to make a marked impact.

Do you have any ideas that would move the needle on this issue?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

You haven't explained anything, merely obfuscated.

The truth is that your "somewhere in the middle" argument is merely deflection from reality.

As is obvious from what they've put out so far, Repubs intend to leave many millions of Americans in the lurch wrt coverage. If Libs compromise, find middle ground, they'll be complicit because millions of Americans will still get screwed, perhaps not as many, and billionaires still get gratuitous tax cuts if not as large.

Repubs have the power to do as they want so it's better to just have them own it.

What a bunch of crap. BOTH sides are loaded with self-serving idiots that do little more than pander to their base. And both sides don't hesitate to screw the constituency of the other side over when they see a chance.

And then you go on to rant about health care, I assume. This thread isn't about health care, it's about public assistance. Health care is a private industry and really has nothing to do in relation to this topic.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Okay, you said it.

You don't think the UBI would improve conditions for enough of the 20% of children in poverty to make a marked impact.

Do you have any ideas that would move the needle on this issue?

UBI would have an impact on some poor, but others would simply take their place.

Ideas to move the needle? How can you force some people not to be stupid with their money and not spend it on drugs, gambling, alcohol, or making some stupid decision where they get ripped off? That's why I'm not trying to control anything, because you can't control bad decisions, and there are always going to be people that make bad decisions.

 

[Jhhnn]

What a bunch of crap. BOTH sides are loaded with self-serving idiots that do little more than pander to their base. And both sides don't hesitate to screw the constituency of the other side over when they see a chance.

And then you go on to rant about health care, I assume. This thread isn't about health care, it's about public assistance. Health care is a private industry and really has nothing to do in relation to this topic.

Quite the contrary. Both Medicaid & Exchange subsidies are forms of public assistance like SSDI, EBT cards or Sec 8 housing. The money always ends up in the hands of private enterprise.

Don't worry, however- I'm sure Repubs will weasel gratuitous billionaire tax cuts any way they can.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Quite the contrary. Both Medicaid & Exchange subsidies are forms of public assistance like SSDI, EBT cards or Sec 8 housing. The money always ends up in the hands of private enterprise.

Don't worry, however- I'm sure Repubs will weasel gratuitous billionaire tax cuts any way they can.

They probably will. And lower income groups will figure out new ways to game the IRS or some other system for billions.

Maybe the solution is to stop people from any income level from gaming the system? But somehow I really don't think you give a shit when poor people do it? And that's the difference between you and me. I don't like it when either side does it. You are only focused on one side.

 

[Jhhnn]

They probably will. And lower income groups will figure out new ways to game the IRS or some other system for billions.

Maybe the solution is to stop people from any income level from gaming the system? But somehow I really don't think you give a shit when poor people do it? And that's the difference between you and me. I don't like it when either side does it. You are only focused on one side.

Maybe you're running away as fast as you can. Low income people can't possibly game the system enough to obtain healthcare coverage. Billionaires can obviously buy the Repub party, however.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Maybe you're running away as fast as you can. Low income people can't possibly game the system enough to obtain healthcare coverage. Billionaires can obviously buy the Repub party, however.

iow, you can't bring yourself to address scams by both sides, only one side. Which is why you're a partisan tool, Jhhnn. You have proven it beyond a shadow of a doubt now.

Congrats. I always knew it but now you have demonstrated your bias clearly to the rest of the forum, or at least to those who can recognize that bias goes to both party members in here. Unfortunately, it seems like there are so few of those here in P&N. So many want to take a side and want to make excuses for their own choice by sliming the other.

And THAT is the problem with US politics. YOU are part of the problem, Jhhnn, as are so many others in here that solely lean to one side and can't find a happy medium.

There has to be compromise. Your side can't have all they want and neither can the other. Until people learn that nothing will be resolved in this country. Both sides need to stop being hard-headed assholes. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening any time soon.

No doubt you'll come back with some 'blah, blah, blah, Republicans' response. It's what you do.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

@Jhhnn: at this point, the most productive thing to do might be to just ignore the goddamn degenerates. If enough people all slam the Ignore switch at once, we can theoretically get Chickenshit and his buddies here so completely shunned that they can only be "heard" by each other.

 

[jackstar7]

UBI would have an impact on some poor, but others would simply take their place.

Ideas to move the needle? How can you force some people not to be stupid with their money and not spend it on drugs, gambling, alcohol, or making some stupid decision where they get ripped off? That's why I'm not trying to control anything, because you can't control bad decisions, and there are always going to be people that make bad decisions.

Okay, so you're just shitting on ideas then.

Got it.