I find it very hard to be charitable after reading this.

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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
That's being done too, I'm sure, but only 2% of the land in Somalia is arable, and much of it isn't even suitable for grazing. One of the effects of the collapse of govt has been diversion of agricultural resources to the growing of Kat, which is flown daily to the addict population in Yemen...

Mogadishu is a large urban area, with a population of ~3M people, so tractors won't do most of them any good, certainly not in the short term. The situation has no simple answers. If it did, the people there would have implemented them, obviously.

Proper irrigation will solve that problem. If water is a problem then desalinization is possible albeit expensive.

My point still remains, sending food that does little more than give the warlords more control is not the answer. We should either put the money to good use or not at all. You wanna know what the real problem is? America is currently the worlds "breadbasket" and with proper farming techniques, irrigation, technology and crops (yes, that mainly means GE crops) Africa could easily replace our food exports. We wouldn't want to fuck up our own food exports just to help damn near an entire continent now would we?
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
Proper irrigation will solve that problem. If water is a problem then desalinization is possible albeit expensive.

My point still remains, sending food that does little more than give the warlords more control is not the answer. We should either put the money to good use or not at all. You wanna know what the real problem is? America is currently the worlds "breadbasket" and with proper farming techniques, irrigation, technology and crops (yes, that mainly means GE crops) Africa could easily replace our food exports. We wouldn't want to fuck up our own food exports just to help damn near an entire continent now would we?

I don't think it is simply "us". All forms of aid are this way. Why would a) we fund it b) no other countries do it for them c) they not be able to do this on their own, even in small doses?

Self-loathing is a bad thing.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Nah, they never liked Bush. They just love to slobber all over the dick of loser-gyno-18th century moron-2nd career politician known as Ron Paul.

They aren't corporatist as much as they are closet anarchists, whether they know it or not.

And you're a closet communist. Wheeee, this is fun!
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
Handing out foods is a method of control to keep beggars/slaves doing our bidding.

IMHO, it would be much more effective if everyone stop trading arms & stop the smugglers from trading arms with Somalian instead of handing out foods.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Wow, I guess you're either a fascist or a communist if you don't tow the libertopian line.
I guess it depends on the days weather as to which one you are.

Exactly! I'm a communist since I believe in big government (since I don't believe in nearly none at all) and I'm a fascist since I believe in the combination of business and state (which I don't in almost all reasonable aspects).

Although I think the name was more in response to my anarchist tagging of libertopians. What's sad is that they can't even acknowledge that they are, pretty much, anarchists if they want such a small government.

People think that the times were great back when we had a small government. They weren't. And while times aren't perfect, they are a fuck-ton better than then.

I loved the libertopian website that hearkened back to the 50s and 60s with "small town doctors, house visits, and better medical care". Yeah, sure. There was also more infant death, generally worse healthcare, and far less sophisticated counters to advanced illnesses.

But then again, most of these crackpots think that you ca tow around an MRI machine to detect stuff and that a traveling doctor that is overall wasteful, is the best solution. What a fuckin joke.

When it comes down to it, libertopians want something that never really existed, but they want to key in on the nostalgia of the Leave It To Beaver, or how great this economy was back in the 1800s when there was no "big government". They pretend that the very same regulations that make our quality of life far better than those times is actually making it worse. They fail to realize that the "bad" we have now is a fraction of the "bad" we had then.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
Exactly! I'm a communist since I believe in big government (since I don't believe in nearly none at all) and I'm a fascist since I believe in the combination of business and state (which I don't in almost all reasonable aspects).

Although I think the name was more in response to my anarchist tagging of libertopians. What's sad is that they can't even acknowledge that they are, pretty much, anarchists if they want such a small government.

People think that the times were great back when we had a small government. They weren't. And while times aren't perfect, they are a fuck-ton better than then.

I loved the libertopian website that hearkened back to the 50s and 60s with "small town doctors, house visits, and better medical care". Yeah, sure. There was also more infant death, generally worse healthcare, and far less sophisticated counters to advanced illnesses.

But then again, most of these crackpots think that you ca tow around an MRI machine to detect stuff and that a traveling doctor that is overall wasteful, is the best solution. What a fuckin joke.

When it comes down to it, libertopians want something that never really existed, but they want to key in on the nostalgia of the Leave It To Beaver, or how great this economy was back in the 1800s when there was no "big government". They pretend that the very same regulations that make our quality of life far better than those times is actually making it worse. They fail to realize that the "bad" we have now is a fraction of the "bad" we had then.

If you had any clue as to what you were talking about, you might have sounded smart. Letting people be free in their own homes and not letting the government run every single facet of your life is a pretty damn good cause.

Do you really WANT the government controlling everything from wages, to when you have sex, to how much you eat?

The government just made the largest transition of power from the people to themselves in the history of the US, and you cheered. Sounds like you NEED someone to make those decisions for you.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
I don't think it is simply "us". All forms of aid are this way. Why would a) we fund it b) no other countries do it for them c) they not be able to do this on their own, even in small doses?

Self-loathing is a bad thing.

Then lets say fuck it and stop sending them aid altogether. Wasting money and empowering warlords is not a good use of ANY of our money regardless of how "insignificant" the amount may be. My point is to do it right or don't do it at all, quite a simple concept actually.

I wasn't implying that we "should", I was implying that if we ARE going to send them aid then lets send them something that will actually help and just maybe even help long term. I will skip "b" because I am generally not that interested in other nations aid policies enough to discuss it intelligently. As far as "C", the warlords, constant war, disease, starvation, and associated fucked up shit going on in the region might have a bit to do with it. Just a guess though, I have no real facts to back that up. I can tell you this though, if some ragtag groups of assholes with AK-47s were running around killing, raping and burning in my neck of the woods I sure as hell wouldn't leave my wife and kids at home to go dig a ditch.

Something else that probably plays into the situation. When you are literally starving your only concern is your next meal. Kinda hard to think long term and organize a bunch of your neighbors to do the same thing, especially considering its gotta be mostly done by hand.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
If you had any clue as to what you were talking about, you might have sounded smart. Letting people be free in their own homes and not letting the government run every single facet of your life is a pretty damn good cause.

Do you really WANT the government controlling everything from wages, to when you have sex, to how much you eat?

The government just made the largest transition of power from the people to themselves in the history of the US, and you cheered. Sounds like you NEED someone to make those decisions for you.

Just give it up, he is a banskter. You are basically asking him to bite the hand that feeds his industry. Just ain't gonna happen.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
Handing out foods is a method of control to keep beggars/slaves doing our bidding.

IMHO, it would be much more effective if everyone stop trading arms & stop the smugglers from trading arms with Somalian instead of handing out foods.

Exactly how would you propose doing that? BTW, its not just Somalia, a bunch of countries fit into this discussion.

And exactly what "bidding" of ours are they doing?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
If you had any clue as to what you were talking about, you might have sounded smart. Letting people be free in their own homes and not letting the government run every single facet of your life is a pretty damn good cause.

Do you really WANT the government controlling everything from wages, to when you have sex, to how much you eat?

The government just made the largest transition of power from the people to themselves in the history of the US, and you cheered. Sounds like you NEED someone to make those decisions for you.

How are you not "free" in your own home? I have yet to see a single situation of the government controlling what I can do inside, except for perhaps building codes and such.

I mean, really, hyperbole much?

I don't like the healthcare bill but that wasn't my point.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Wow, I guess you're either a fascist or a communist if you don't tow the libertopian line.
I guess it depends on the days weather as to which one you are.

And if you don't toe (not tow, you government school educated buffoon) the big government line you're an anarchist. :rolleyes:

Can't you losers come up with somewhat less infantile arguments?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
And if you don't toe (not tow, you government school educated buffoon) the big government line you're an anarchist. :rolleyes:

Can't you losers come up with somewhat less infantile arguments?

Ahh, see, this is what I find humorous. You go and rip on a "government school educated" person. So what really does that mean?

How exactly is supposed to educate kids?

let me guess? Businesses?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
How are you not "free" in your own home? I have yet to see a single situation of the government controlling what I can do inside, except for perhaps building codes and such.

I mean, really, hyperbole much?

I don't like the healthcare bill but that wasn't my point.

I personally would really like the freedom to not get ripped off by the banksters or at least have those pesky laws (already on the books) apply to them when they do. Thats just me though, he might be going somewhere completely different.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
Wow, you really got me there. A "bankster" eh? Guess you haven't been listening.

Not really, I don't have the time nor the desire to read every post.

Did you recently change careers? If so, and you did it out of disgust for the past AND current actions of the banking industry, you have my sincere apology.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Not really, I don't have the time nor the desire to read every post.

Did you recently change careers? If so, and you did it out of disgust for the past AND current actions of the banking industry, you have my sincere apology.

I haven't changed but I have railed against the actions of many people/companies in the last 10 years. You've missed that I guess.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
Ahh, see, this is what I find humorous. You go and rip on a "government school educated" person. So what really does that mean?

How exactly is supposed to educate kids?

let me guess? Businesses?

Government controlled ANYTHING is less effective than it's private counterpart (except the Military - but they have basically a blank check.....). People from private schools test higher and achieve more on a regular basis. It's more of a shot at being indoctrinated by your school and being brought up to preserve the power of those that doled the money out.

Since you can't figure that out, I'll just call it ironic that your school didn't teach you basic cognitive skills.

I haven't changed but I have railed against the actions of many people/companies in the last 10 years. You've missed that I guess.

Amazing that us little people don't pay you much mind. Shocker, right? Next time, we will try to follow your every move in hopes that we can learn from someone that can't even figure out that government schools are inferior to the private counterparts, and often times, have less money to do it with.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
I haven't changed but I have railed against the actions of many people/companies in the last 10 years. You've missed that I guess.

What about the last 10 days? And frankly, I think I did miss that, can you point me to your most recent example? I am really interested in exactly what actions you have railed against. I seem to recall a debate a while back about the Fed being legally able to buy trash paper created and sold by the banking industry (at full face value of course) via Fannie. You agreed with the legality while myself, and Fannie itself, did not. I assumed at the time that you thought it was a good thing that the US taxpayer be the "bagholder" for the banks bad paper, regardless of the legality. It seems to have worked out quite well for your industry...
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Government controlled ANYTHING is less effective than it's private counterpart (except the Military - but they have basically a blank check.....). People from private schools test higher and achieve more on a regular basis. It's more of a shot at being indoctrinated by your school and being brought up to preserve the power of those that doled the money out.

Since you can't figure that out, I'll just call it ironic that your school didn't teach you basic cognitive skills.



Amazing that us little people don't pay you much mind. Shocker, right? Next time, we will try to follow your every move in hopes that we can learn from someone that can't even figure out that government schools are inferior to the private counterparts, and often times, have less money to do it with.

Ahhh yes, accusing me of "cognitive" skill difficulty but let's analyze your claim about private school children testing out higher.


1. Did your analysis control for exogenous variables that might skew the statistical results? Here are some.

a. Drive of the parents. The #1 input into the quality of a kid's education is the drive of the parents. Naturally, parents who are going to put their kids into private schools will also be willing to put more effort into making sure they do well. This will result in more drive for the kids and result in better test scores.

b. However, not all parents can afford the money, or time, for private schools. I'm sure you could say that the taxes saved would result in more money to those who need it. However, the people at those SES levels would be hard pressed to come up with the money and, ironically, that would result in less time to spend with the kid to drive them to better results.

c. Those kids who can get into private schools (tests themselves) and can make it through, will naturally score better. However not all kids can get in and since if they did, A and B would kick in. Furthermore, as more kids came in the schools would be commoditized, resulting in lower overall test scores.

d. Those who can afford the private schools are also likely going to be smarter, as they have already achieved the SES levels needed to get there (or their parents have, who would likely be smarter). So is it the private schools making the difference or the raw material?

Overall, the key differentials in private schools won't be the schools themselves. It will be the parents involvement (which will be very important) and the key genetic material. To prove this you only need to look at schools where studies that examine parent involvement in the education is taken into account. They show a striking correlation, even Bill Cosby has noted this in his railing against african american families. I know that Fairfield county CT schools show an interesting situation. In higher SES areas test scores are far better, even in public schools.

For example, in Stamford, test scores suck compared to Greenwich. This is mostly due to the working family situation in a large portion of Stamford, combined with lower parental involvement and spanish speaking issues.

Compare that to Fairfield CT, where that school system is one of the best in the country. Taxes for them are high but parental involvement is also one of the highest in the country. As a result a massive portion of children go to college compared to the average.

How can that happen with a public school?

Would you claim that private universities, such as Devry, are overall better? They are private and are cost+ educations. However, overall, they product inferior products that end up fucking students with higher cost educations that deliver little.

2. Did you account for the fact that *ALL* people should have an opportunity at education? It should be a right to be educated if one so desires. Furthermore, it's only to our benefit that all of society does become educated. There is a direct correlation between education and the ability to make more money and be less prone to crime. Thus, society benefits in those two, among a multitude of other ways.

If it were any other way you'd slowly get a caste system whereby the lower castes became uneducated and more akin to serfs. This would eventually topple the country as they became more angered at the disparity.

I do love these types of debates. I grew up in a 9 rated school district by Great Schools.com. My public school wasn't great but it offered a very good relative education. I went to a public university (Big 10) for a psych/history undergrad. Immediately after that I got an MBA from another public university. 3 years later I earned my CFA charter.

How could I have done any of that through these "Shitty" public schools? How is that possible with such trash?

Ohh wait, it's because both of my parents were college educated (first generation), although neither used their educations much (both blue-collar union workers). Both of them drove me to do well in school. Both helped me through classes. Both encouraged me through all of my education.

However, would I have been able to go to a private school? Probably not, my parents didn't make enough money.

I could go on and on and on destroying your "private school is better" argument. However, I strongly suspect you lack the same skill you claimed I did (cognitive abilities) to fully grasp how profoundly stupid you are.
 
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Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
Ahhh yes, accusing me of "cognitive" skill difficulty but let's analyze your claim about private school children testing out higher.


1. Did your analysis control for exogenous variables that might skew the statistical results? Here are some.

a. Drive of the parents. The #1 input into the quality of a kid's education is the drive of the parents. Naturally, parents who are going to put their kids into private schools will also be willing to put more effort into making sure they do well. This will result in more drive for the kids and result in better test scores.

b. However, not all parents can afford the money, or time, for private schools. I'm sure you could say that the taxes saved would result in more money to those who need it. However, the people at those SES levels would be hard pressed to come up with the money and, ironically, that would result in less time to spend with the kid to drive them to better results.

c. Those kids who can get into private schools (tests themselves) and can make it through, will naturally score better. However not all kids can get in and since if they did, A and B would kick in. Furthermore, as more kids came in the schools would be commoditized, resulting in lower overall test scores.

d. Those who can afford the private schools are also likely going to be smarter, as they have already achieved the SES levels needed to get there (or their parents have, who would likely be smarter). So is it the private schools making the difference or the raw material?

Overall, the key differentials in private schools won't be the schools themselves. It will be the parents involvement (which will be very important) and the key genetic material. To prove this you only need to look at schools where studies that examine parent involvement in the education is taken into account. They show a striking correlation, even Bill Cosby has noted this in his railing against african american families. I know that Fairfield county CT schools show an interesting situation. In higher SES areas test scores are far better, even in public schools.

For example, in Stamford, test scores suck compared to Greenwich. This is mostly due to the working family situation in a large portion of Stamford, combined with lower parental involvement and spanish speaking issues.

Compare that to Fairfield CT, where that school system is one of the best in the country. Taxes for them are high but parental involvement is also one of the highest in the country. As a result a massive portion of children go to college compared to the average.

How can that happen with a public school?

Would you claim that private universities, such as Devry, are overall better? They are private and are cost+ educations. However, overall, they product inferior products that end up fucking students with higher cost educations that deliver little.

2. Did you account for the fact that *ALL* people should have an opportunity at education? It should be a right to be educated if one so desires. Furthermore, it's only to our benefit that all of society does become educated. There is a direct correlation between education and the ability to make more money and be less prone to crime. Thus, society benefits in those two, among a multitude of other ways.

If it were any other way you'd slowly get a caste system whereby the lower castes became uneducated and more akin to serfs. This would eventually topple the country as they became more angered at the disparity.

I do love these types of debates. I grew up in a 9 rated school district by Great Schools.com. My public school wasn't great but it offered a very good relative education. I went to a public university (Big 10) for a psych/history undergrad. Immediately after that I got an MBA from another public university. 3 years later I earned my CFA charter.

How could I have done any of that through these "Shitty" public schools? How is that possible with such trash?

Ohh wait, it's because both of my parents were college educated (first generation), although neither used their educations much (both blue-collar union workers). Both of them drove me to do well in school. Both helped me through classes. Both encouraged me through all of my education.

However, would I have been able to go to a private school? Probably not, my parents didn't make enough money.

I could go on and on and on destroying your "private school is better" argument. However, I strongly suspect you lack the same skill you claimed I did (cognitive abilities) to fully grasp how profoundly stupid you are.

FYI : I pretty much just skimmed your wall of text as it mostly looked like nerd rage.

I went to a public school. The private school is better. Trust me. Never said there shouldn't be public schools for mass education. Just said that (usually) private schools are better.

I make fun of people who went to public schools because a) I went there. I know how retarded most of them are. b) I don't think I was awake for the first 4 periods my entire HS career. Never made anything except an A. Not tooting my own horn, mind you. I'm not especially more capable than the rest of the world, but when people struggle with simple HS crap, you know they are going to be in trouble. Motivation is another issue altogether. Im just talking about ability.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
FYI : I pretty much just skimmed your wall of text as it mostly looked like nerd rage.

I went to a public school. The private school is better. Trust me. Never said there shouldn't be public schools for mass education. Just said that (usually) private schools are better.

I make fun of people who went to public schools because a) I went there. I know how retarded most of them are. b) I don't think I was awake for the first 4 periods my entire HS career. Never made anything except an A. Not tooting my own horn, mind you. I'm not especially more capable than the rest of the world, but when people struggle with simple HS crap, you know they are going to be in trouble. Motivation is another issue altogether. Im just talking about ability.

Yeah, "nerd rage". In other words your apathetic mind doesn't bother to think. That's OK. You're just among the rest of the "average" who would rather blame other factors.

As far as public education goes, it isn't tailored to be the end-all-and-be-all of education. it is there to give basic skills and does an OK job at that. It needs improvement.

No shit private schools will be better. They cost more money and the natural selection of that means that they don't have to deal with the lower talent, motivated, parentally monitored, people. Thus they can focus on the brighter and more motivated, resulting in higher test scores.

But I guess that's public education's fault, eh?


I guess your "cognitive skills" can't quite make the connection there.