I finally realize why VIA sucks - 4 in 1's + UDMA = no go (EDIT: problem solved, used PCI ATA Adapter card)

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
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0
Dunno if this is the right forum, but it's concerning VIA chipsets(southbridge) and UDMA hardrives.

I've been having trouble enabling UDMA for my new Maxtor 40gig hardrive 7200 RPM on the primary IDE controller. I installed the 4.37's with the PCI IDE Bus Master drivers. I'm running Win2K with SP2. My motherboard is a ABIT KT7.

Problem is that the hardrive keeps showing up as PIO mode under Device Manager. The CD ROMS on the secondary channel show up ok at UDMA. Don't tell me that I might have my cables or BIOS settings are wrong.....checked that already. BIOS bootup screen shows ATA66.

My hardrive under PIO mode is so freakin' sloooooooooow. Random stutters playing Mp3s, slow thumbnail caching under Acdsee, etc. Takes like half a hour to bench under Sandra, got a hardrive score of 3000. Should be ~13000 for a ATA 66 hardrive. I installed the 4.28 IDE drivers(the ones with a DMA Tool). The Device Manager now associate the channels with "VIA ULTRA DMA BUS Channel" and the VIA Bus Master Ultra ATA Controller comes up as not installed. With this driver setup, I believe that the hardrive is running under DMA mode and it shows up as so with the VIA DMA tool that is included with the 4.28 drivers. I get a Sandra Bench of 13000 -15000. Programs run excellent with a little pickup. hardrive come up as SCSI devices under Device manager though. Fine.

BUT, my CD writer cannot burn CDs with CLONECD now. According to CLONECD: CloneCD uses very uncommon sector sizes for the transfer. Certain DMA Busmaster drivers for VIA or ALI chipsets are not working properly with these transfer sizes. You should get an update of the IDE Busmaster drivers from ALI or VIA for your motherboard. So, i'm back at the IDE driver problem; I dont want to install the 4.37 drivers and have my computer run slow like molasses. I will never go back to PIO.

I've been checking out the VIA Arena site for a solution. There's an IDE Filter and a IDE mini port driver. After reading all the FAQ's and other documentation, I can't get a definitive answer for which to install. In fact, I'm hella confused as to what they are. What's up with all these different naming conventions for the IDE drives? In one driver release, it's Busmaster drivers, in another it's VIA ATAPI Vendor Support Driver and now it's PCI IDE Bus Driver ?!!?? I looked in the VIA user forums and there are hundreds of threads about the different IDE drivers and the DMA---->PIO problem. No one has a clear solution to this problem. Doesn't look like it's going to be coming from VIA either.

Anybody has a understanding of this problem and a solution? I see quite a few threads with the DMA--->PIO problem as well here. is it really that hard for VIA to come up with a fix for the IDE problems? i've tried reinstalling and unistalling (by the way, the Uninstall feature doesn't really seem to work) the VIA drivers and FUBARed my computer a couple of times already. This is ridiculous. Sorry for the lengthy post. Thanks in advance. :(
 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
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0
i dunno sometimes via is picky, i had one harddrive that wouldn't go into udma on the board, but everything else did oddly enuph:p
 

Agamar

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,334
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Hmm, I have the Soyo Dragon +, same Via drivers, and a TDK 24x10x40.. Everything running in UDMA mode, even my IBM Hdds
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
I have never had a prob running UDMA with all my via board I have had either

AUsm
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
76


<< I have never had a prob running UDMA with all my via board I have had either

AUsm
>>




Same here. Currently running a RAID 0 2-drive stripe, one backup HD, two CDRs all in UDMA 5...no probs at all. You must have a conflict, or maybe missing a driver? Maybe you didn't load the ENTIRE Via set of drivers?
 

fendel

Member
Jan 24, 2000
134
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0


<< I've been having trouble enabling UDMA . . . . Problem is that the hardrive keeps showing up as PIO mode under Device Manager. . . . My hardrive under PIO mode is so freakin' sloooooooooow. . . . I installed the 4.28 IDE drivers(the ones with a DMA Tool). The Device Manager now associate the channels with "VIA ULTRA DMA BUS Channel" and the VIA Bus Master Ultra ATA Controller comes up as not installed. . . . hardrive come up as SCSI devices under Device manager though. Fine. BUT, my CD writer cannot burn CDs with CLONECD now. >>



jooksing, that's EXACTLY what happened to me with my Shuttle AK31v2. Down to the last detail. I searched the net, scoured the forums, posted here, never found a solution. (Someone did advise me to uninstall the IDE drivers, but having finally gotten decent speeds, I felt I'd rather put up with the problems than go back to my previous slow speeds.) Every time I booted I got the "New Hardware Found" box for the bus master drivers (AND "USB Root Hub")--waiting around for that dialog box (to cancel out of it) started to really irritate me.

That experience soured me on Via. I replaced my motherboard with an inexpensive ECS K7S6A that's been running flawlessly for a couple weeks now and required no tweaking whatsoever.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91
Works fine for me:

DVD ROM -- ATA/66
CD-RW -- ATA/33
Hard Drive -- ATA/100

Sounds like user error
rolleye.gif
 

WilsonTung

Senior member
Aug 25, 2001
487
0
0


<< Sounds like user error >>


Why do people ALWAYS post that instead of something useful? :disgust:
 

SinNisTeR

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
3,570
0
0
do anyone of you guys use IDETOOL? install that and it shows what your ide devices are running at. works great for me.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<<

<< Sounds like user error >>


Why do people ALWAYS post that instead of something useful? :disgust:
>>


Yes, your post was VERY helpful to the original poster
rolleye.gif


Tit for Tat, what you just did is no better...moving on;)
 

augiem

Senior member
Dec 20, 1999
746
0
76
Hi,

I know your problems with VIA... I swore I'd never get another VIA chipset a while ago. (One thing you pay for when buying a cheaper system is the lack of intensive quality control and testing. Did you know that one if Intel's server boards was stress tested for a year and a half non-stop before release?)

Anyway, the cheapest solution is to buy an IDE card, slap it in, and never look back. That's what I did. :p
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81


<< I installed the 4.37's with the PCI IDE Bus Master drivers. I'm running Win2K with SP2. My motherboard is a ABIT KT7. >>




I think that`s your problem ,you are not supposed to install the PCI IDE BUS Master driver since that is for Windows NT not 2K,if you go
here you will see the chart that shows you which drivers will and should be installed so for Win2K it will be

The IDE Filter driver enables the performance enhancing bus mastering functions on ATA-capable Hard Disk Drives and ensures IDE device compatibility. (Also known as the ATAPI Vendor Support Driver)


VIA AGP VxD Driver is to be installed. VIAGART.VXD will provide service routines to your VGA driver and interface directly to hardware, providing fast graphical access.

VIA Registry (INF) Driver will be installed. The driver will enable the VIA Power Management function.

So only those three drivers from the VIA 4 in 1 driver pack.

Note it says

<< VIA IDE Bus Master Driver : For Windows NT users, the VIA IDE Bus Mastering driver is the only driver to be installed in your system. >>

you will see in the chart it`s the only OS that uses that.








 

Whitedog

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 1999
3,656
1
0
<< Sounds like user error >>

Why do people ALWAYS post that instead of something useful?




I think he ran out of useful things to post after post #15,000 or so. :confused:
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
0
0
Sounds like user error

I don't think so . I've tried every possible configuration. I basically installed the VIA drivers like its intended. The rig runs stable, just the hd performance is a issue.

I think that`s your problem ,you are not supposed to install the PCI IDE BUS Master driver since that is for Windows NT not 2K,if you go
here you will see the chart that shows you which drivers will and should be installed so for Win2K it will be


I think you're wrong here. Here's what it saids at VIA Arena: VIA IDE Bus Master Driver : For Windows NT users, the VIA IDE Bus Mastering driver is the only driver to be installed in your system.

That means that the VIA IDE Bus Master Driver is the only driver to be installed for NT, not meaning that its a NT only driver. The 4 in 1 automatically detects your OS and recommends the appropriate driver. My 4 in 1's had this driver as my only option. What this driver is I don't know. I 'm not sure if it's the miniport or filter driver or that they might be bundled as one under "IDE Bus Maste Driver".

do anyone of you guys use IDETOOL? install that and it shows what your ide devices are running at. works great for me.

Are you talking about the IDETOOL 3.011 that can be downloaded as a standalone? I'm going to try that but after I back my stuff first.

For those using Win2k and a VIA southbridge, can you guys check in Device Manager if DMA is enabled for your hardrives? Thanks.






 

Bagheera

Senior member
Jul 6, 2000
310
0
0
I have an ASUS A7V133 running an IBM 40gb and a Maxtor 20gb, 1 DVD-ROM, 1 YAMAHA CD-burner.... everything runs fine on mine. :p Sorry you are having trouble. Not sure hwo to solve it though.
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
0
0
Fendel:

I see you did the same thing by uninstalling the IDE whatever driver that came with the 4.37 4 in ones. Every time I booted I got the "New Hardware Found" box for the bus master drivers (AND "USB Root Hub")--waiting around for that dialog box (to cancel out of it) started to really irritate me. I got the New Hardware Found box as well when Win2k detects the primary and secondary channels. I just point the Hardware Installer to search to recommended driver which is VIA ULTRA DMA BUS Channel. If that doesn't work, try pointing it to the IDE driver with an older set of 4 in 1's like the 4.28. Got rid of the dialoge prompt for me.

I think this DMA/PIO detection problem is a win2k thing. At least that's the OS people over at VIA arena have their IDE problems with. For those with no DMA problems, can you tell me what OS you're running and what IDE drivers you have (if you can tell).
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Ive had the same problems.

I just installed the new IDE drivers, and used IDE tool, and use blind faith to trust it really is using UDMA...
 

ubersam

Member
Aug 8, 2001
194
0
0


<< That means that the VIA IDE Bus Master Driver is the only driver to be installed for NT... The 4 in 1 automatically detects your OS and recommends the appropriate driver. My 4 in 1's had this driver as my only option. >>


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't W2K based on the NT Kernel something-or-other? Maybe the 4-in-1 setup is detecting W2K as NT thereby offering only that option. Just guessing.

Have you read the VIA IDE Driver guide?

<< Both the VIA IDE Bus Master Filter Driver and the VIA IDE Bus Master Miniport driver are included in the VIA 4in1 service pack. Please note that in the 4in1 drivers, the IDE Filter Driver is referred to as the ATAPI Vendor Support Driver. They will only install by default on particular Microsoft Operating systems, however, as follows: >>

According to the chart following that, for W2K it will install the Filter Driver not the Miniport. What if you uninstall all the VIA drivers and install the Filter Driver (w/o using the 4-in-1 setup)?
 

Bovinicus

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2001
3,145
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I'm running Win2000 SP2 as well. I have the EPoX 8KHA+. I have the latest 4in1s. My hardware is all running in UDMA mode, my HDD in UDMA100 mode.
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
0
0
According to the chart following that, for W2K it will install the Filter Driver not the Miniport. What if you uninstall all the VIA drivers and install the Filter Driver (w/o using the 4-in-1 setup)?

Ok, it's the Filter Driver(ATAPI Vendor Support Driver) that is installed by default by the 4.37 4 in 1's in win2k. THAT's the driver i'm having problems with. Under Device Manager, it downgrades my primary master from UDMA to PIO while the SLave hardrive is detected properly.

I did a clean install of win2k and tried the IDE driver from the 4.28 4 in 1's. This version also has a DMA Tool which was removed in the post 4.31 drivers. With the 4.28s, I think Windows installed it's default IDE drivers and it comes up as "VIA ULTRA DMA BUS Channel" under Device Manager. The hardrive seems to be in UDMA mode; it run noticebly faster and has higher Sandra benchmarks. But, I have that CloneCD problem where it won't burn. I'm looking for a solution (or driver) that enables UDMA mode correctly and enables functionality with CLoneCD.

Here's a thread at VIA arena where people have the same problem that I have. THREAD

EDIT:
Here's another curveball: The Win2k installs the Filter driver on default. THat's according to the VIAIDE driver guide. BUT, if you look at the comparison chart, most of the driver features for Win2k is enabled for the Miniport driver. Now that doesn't make sense because the Miniport driver is default for NT. Has anybody installed the Miniport driver instead of the default Filter driver in WIn2k?
 

Rickten

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2001
1,607
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0
OKay I think I can fix your problem

I have the abit kt7 raid. There is a problem with the bios where it has troubles recognizing ultra dma in win2k and xp. Go into the bios and disable dma support on the channel your harddrive is using. THen check in device manager for what mode. This worked for me. I disabled dma in the bios and now win2k recognizes my drive as dma and I don't get those stupid hiccups in my mp3's now


edit: where can I find ide tool
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
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0
Rickten:

you can get the seperate IDE miniport driver from here. It's version 3.014. It comes with a IDE Tool that displays what mode your hardrive transfer rate is at. You don't have to install the miniport driver to use the IDE tool. It'll be in the same zip folder. Can you guys running win2k/XP use that IDE tool to check for uDMA?

I might try your BIOS trick if I'm left with no other options. But, I read in the VIA Arena threads that disabling UDMA in bios would allow the hardrive to run in UDMA mode, but at ATA33. I would use the IDE tool that comes with the IDE miniport driver to check.

For some reason, I don't think the IDE miniport driver is included with the latest 4.37 4 in 1's. I think it's filter driver only. I'm going to try this version 3.014. I pray this works.
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
0
0
For those who have no problems:

Can you state:
1) Your OS
2) What VIA 4 in 1 driver you're using and whether or not it's the Filter or Miniport driver that is installed.
3) If the proper UDMA mode is activated under the IDE Tools application?

Thank you.