I finally realize why VIA sucks - 4 in 1's + UDMA = no go (EDIT: problem solved, used PCI ATA Adapter card)

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John

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
33,944
4
81
XP Pro
4.37's no filter or mini
IDE works like a champ

There is a MS KB article that shows the PIO identification could be a glitch when in fact it is in DMA mode.
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
0
0
There is a MS KB article that shows the PIO identification could be a glitch when in fact it is in DMA mode.

John:
I'm most definitely sure that it's running in PIO. I can tell firsthand by the lackluster performance. Since you're running the 4.37s with neither the filter or miniport driver, did you install the IDE driver at all?

My bios is pretty recent. When the machine POSTS, the drives are detected properly. I don't think there's anything wrong with my Bios version.


 

Willoughbyva

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2001
3,267
0
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I remember there bing problems with the via drivers, 2000, and burning related things. I can't remember now how people got around it (I don't use 2000).

Link

Link2

There are some links at google groups. Try installing the 4 in 1 and then removing the ide controllers in device manager.

Good luck

Will
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
0
0
I read those link already. It's exactly the same problem I have. At the end of the thread, the poster gave up and returned the board. But thanks anyway.

I'm going to try the miniport driver. I'm backing up my stuff and preparing for the worst.
 

fendel

Member
Jan 24, 2000
134
0
0


<< I got the New Hardware Found box as well when Win2k detects the primary and secondary channels. I just point the Hardware Installer to search to recommended driver which is VIA ULTRA DMA BUS Channel. If that doesn't work, try pointing it to the IDE driver with an older set of 4 in 1's like the 4.28. Got rid of the dialoge prompt for me. >>



I tried pointing it a couple of different places, but nothing ever "took".... I got the New Hardware box at every boot no matter what. (FWIW, I was running WinXP Pro with the 4.37s and IDETOOL installed.)

But all of this is only a fading, unpleasant memory, since that mobo is gathering dust on a shelf now. No more Via for me.
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
0
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Ok, I have decided to hold off on installing the Miniport driver. Seems like the consensus at VIA Arena is that it'll be a self inflicted anal reaming to do so. VIA Arena apparently is going to be revamped and by late next week, there will be an overhaul of their "Engrish" documentation. I will wait until that happens before I try this Miniport driver.

Someone posted this over there that might be of interest to the users here:


"Windows XP And PIO
Jim McHie - 2/13/02


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You may already know about this, but it's new to me and I haven't found much on it by way of web searching so I thought I would pass it along.

Recently I began to notice my Athlon XP 1800+ computer with 512 MB DDR SDRAM on an MSI KT266 board slowing down a bit. Boot times took longer; load times extended. It was sort of gradual, so I didn't notice it all at once. One day I'm sitting here waiting for my computer to boot thinking, "This is slower than my old 95 boot!" My hard drive performance had really slowed down across the board.

When I set XP up, I made sure to go in and change the default PIO modes on my IDE channels to 'Use DMA if available.' After that, I had confirmed that the modes on my devices had switched to various DMa modes. So I didn't figure that's where the problem was with this slowly corroding hard drive performance. After all, I had changed the settings properly and not made any adjustments to them, so how could my problem lie there?

Then I looked in Device Manager. IDE 0 was set to 'Use DMA if available', but the setting being used was *not* the DMA mode it had been set to previously, but, inexplicably, PIO! What's worse, there was no option to change it back to DMA. It was 'stuck'.

The problem turns out to be an automatic 'feature' of Windows XP, as explained on this MS Windows Platform Development Web Site:

For repeated DMA errors.

Windows XP will turn off DMA mode for a device after encountering certain errors during data transfer operations. If more that six DMA transfer timeouts occur, Windows will turn off DMA and use only PIO mode on that device.

In this case, the user cannot turn on DMA for this device. The only option for the user who wants to enable DMA mode is to uninstall and reinstall the device.

Windows XP downgrades the Ultra DMA transfer mode after receiving more than six CRC errors. Whenever possible, the operating system will step down one UDMA mode at a time (from UDMA mode 4 to UDMA mode 3, and so on).

So I uninstalled the Primary IDE channel and rebooted. Windows XP reinstalled the IDE drivers and redetected the hard drive. Reboot one more time with 'Use DMA if Available' and Voila!! Hard drive access was once again up-to-snuff, using the correct DMA mode.

I'm not entirely sure what errors I have had that qualified, but as an overclocker and gamer I have had driver issues, crashes relating to overclocking, and other occasional conflicts generated by my curiosity with trying all sorts of odds-and-ends. And to think, Windows XP was looking out for me the whole time by downgrading my data transfer modes!! I feel more protected by MS all the time; protected from good performance anyway. :)

Jim McHie



 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
0
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I have found a semi permanent solution to all this madness:
1) I'm using the Miniport drivers for full UDMA capabilities for my HD.
2) The Miniport driver doesn't seem to fully support ATAPI cdroms so I moved my burner to a PCI Adapter card. Now I can use CloneCD.

Now I have UDMA and burning capabilities for my cdwriter! Yay! I think i'm going to have a drink. Thanks for contributing to this thread.
 

compuser

Member
Feb 14, 2000
152
0
0
CLARIFICATION:

quote from viaarena site (linked above): "VIA IDE Bus Master Driver : For Windows NT users, the VIA IDE Bus Mastering driver is the only driver to be installed in your system. "

they AREN'T saying this driver is ONLY for winNT users. Rather that for winNT users, this is the ONLY driver they need to install (doesn't mean it's not for other OSes).

someone correct me if this is not true, please!

ah, english can be such a puzzling language at times. ;)

EDIT:

ok, that's what the sentence says. however, the chart they have uses a different name: IDE Miniport. is this the same as VIA IDE Bus Master Driver???

To make things less confusing, when I run 4-in-1s on my system and go with a normal install instead of quick install, it gives me 3 options: (1) IDE Bus Master Driver (2) AGP VxD Driver (3) INF Driver.

Now, which of these do you need to install in win2k? INF, AGP... yes (no AGP for me b/c I have a PCI card) but what about IDE driver though?
 

MustPost

Golden Member
May 30, 2001
1,923
0
0
<<I finally realize why VIA sucks - 4 in 1's + UDMA = no go>>

Um, shouldn't everyone else who owns a via drive be complaining as well if this was the case.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
MustPost wrote:

"Um, shouldn't everyone else who owns a via drive be complaining as well if this was the case."

Try doing a keyword search on VIA ... and look around at other forums. UDMA issues seem to be among the most common gripes of frustrated VIA dwellers. But that's just the beginning, and you don't have to take my word for it :D
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
0
0
I had an ASPI layer installed already because my burner worked when I had the VIA filter driver. My burner worked without a glitch after I moved it over to the Maxtor PCI UATA card. The VIA page itself states that the filter driver is better at supporting optical drive devices.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
18
81
i realized VIA sucked a long time ago. thats why i gave up on them and bought a laptop with an intel chipset. i had via for k6-2 and athlon and well, screw it. its not worth my time . the key is that VIA shouldnt be picky. it should just work
 

XBoxLPU

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2001
4,249
1
0
I am running Windows XP pro.

Installed Via 4.37's and all of my devices went to PIO mode, couldn't change them back.

Took out 4in1s and system is running fine.

 

Daovonnaex

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2001
1,952
0
0


<< MustPost wrote:

"Um, shouldn't everyone else who owns a via drive be complaining as well if this was the case."

Try doing a keyword search on VIA ... and look around at other forums. UDMA issues seem to be among the most common gripes of frustrated VIA dwellers. But that's just the beginning, and you don't have to take my word for it :D
>>

I won't take your word for it, as I've had no problems whatsoever. I feel that VIA has less quality, but that most issues arise from ineptitude.
 

AKA

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
1,304
0
76
Its not always software.. actually ran across a maxtor hard drive that wouldnt do UDMA at all in any computer.. its twin (bought at same time would).... short: FAULTY HARD DRIVE

Possible whatever on the hard drive that makes it UDMA capable went out... but if your getting UDMA now guess thats not the case.

Just posting for others in case they ever encounter this issue in the future.
 

acidvoodoo

Platinum Member
Jan 6, 2002
2,972
1
0
i installed the 4 in 1 driver and ide driver for my Fic VA-503+, i saw no performace significant performance increase, except for like 10 3d marks in 2001, and i LOST MY CD DRIVE

that's right, my cd drive has disappeared from windows, the bios sees it, but the IDE controller is obviously buggy and messed up
anyone got any tips?

cheeky VIE didn't even put an email address on there site for tech support, well not that i could find