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I don't understand why some of you like Mozilla so much

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There are specifications/standards pertaining to how things should work. If someone gains enough marketshare and not comply with these specifications then the specifications wouldn't matter and whoever had the marketshare could determine what happens. Most of the stuff pertaining to the web is determined by standard bodies. Like the world wide web consortium (sp) that people should implement to make things work correctly for everyone else. Sort of like the HDTV stuff that is going on. Different tv manufacturers are comming out with different stuff hoping to be the most popular so that they will have market share. If they get market share and become a standard other companies will have to re-tool their products which takes time and the market leader will make even more money.

It is after 3:00am here my mind is fried.
 
Originally posted by: Willoughbyva
There are specifications/standards pertaining to how things should work. If someone gains enough marketshare and not comply with these specifications then the specifications wouldn't matter and whoever had the marketshare could determine what happens. Most of the stuff pertaining to the web is determined by standard bodies. Like the world wide web consortium (sp) that people should implement to make things work correctly for everyone else. Sort of like the HDTV stuff that is going on. Different tv manufacturers are comming out with different stuff hoping to be the most popular so that they will have market share. If they get market share and become a standard other companies will have to re-tool their products which takes time and the market leader will make even more money.

It is after 3:00am here my mind is fried.
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YES, what he said!



KeyserSoze

 
Originally posted by: Wingznut
Originally posted by: Entity
Originally posted by: Wingznut
Yeah, but... It works fine with IE.
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That's because IE is very loose in how it interprets code. If everyone were to stick with the standards, IE included, we wouldn't have issues like this at all. Since IE doesn't want to stick with the standards, though, developers are forced to choose: program with compliance for all browsers (and work harder), or program with compliance for the most popular?

It's not IE's fault, it's the developers fault; however, people seem prone to taking the easiest way out. Once IE renders it fine, most developers just don't seem to care.

There are lots of times I've wanted to kick IE for improperly rendering pages. Ask developers about their support of the min-height CSS command. 😛

Rob
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But if the end result is that IE displays the page properly (and quickly), but Mozilla displays a friggin' mess (and slower)... Then isn't the above irrelevant?

If it doesn't work, it doesn't really matter why, now does it?
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Sure it does.
1) I put anything I do through validation.
2) I don't use IE.
3) If a page doesn't render properly, it wasn't important enough for them to do things right, so it is also not important enough for me to spend my time viewing it. Period.
4) As you get an install of windows bogged down with things, IE slows down. Mozilla doesn't.

Lastly, there are now parts of MS' own site that Mozilla will display properly but older versions of IE won't 🙂.
 
Originally posted by: jonmullen
AnandTech is not HTML 4.01 Compliant just fyi
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Yes, but look at it...it is using code that will work in older versions of IE and Netscape before such things (like colors in tables) were standards. It isn't the incompetent not being standard that ESPN is.
 
I disagree, I use to design webpages and it always sucked trying to get them to work properly with browsers other then IE. Opera and Mozilla would always run into problems rendering the page right even though IE worked fine. The extra work slowed us down so eventually we just stopped designing for other browsers since 95% were using IE anyways.
 
Originally posted by: KeyserSoze

Ok, one more time. YES, IE has the market share right now. BUT they do NOT use Industry Standards, NOR do they understand Industry Standards. Now, this is MY personal opinion: But this is CRAP! Why would you want something that is proprietary. I DO think that if enough people start using other browsers, AND making pages that are according to W3C rules, the world would be a much better place. It would stop wars, end world hunger, and be the ultimate answer for world peace.
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And if everyone would just start using Macs...
Sure, Mozilla supports the W3C standard... a standard that includes the innovations of previous versions of IE and Netscape, and a standard that will eventually include current features of IE. If Netscape and IE didn't develop new features, I think HTML would not have developed as far as it has by now. Man, that was so sweet back in the day when you couldn't line up pictures without space between them...

And I bet the next version of HTML will look even more like Microsoft HTML.

It seems to me that a lot of people just really don't like Microsoft... inferiority complex?
 
I think it would be better for everyone to follow standards issued by a standards body. That is one if not the most important reasons why computers, www, whatever is so cheap now 'adays dbecause companies are following standards and competing on a fair playground. I would rather see people using open standards rather than someone creating something diferent and patening it for everyone else to pay royalties.
 
mozilla/opera actually render png files correctly. something that IE on the PC refuses to do since it's inception.
It kills pop-ups effectively with no need to download another program to run in order to accomplish this.
It doesn't try to force me to have a damn "Links" folder in my Bookmarks.
Has tabbed browsing.
More/Better user options.
I can pick my default search engine instead of having to use MSN.
Useable cookie/image/form managers.
Editable and Viewable password manager.

just a few reasons, for now.
 
Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
Originally posted by: KeyserSoze

Ok, one more time. YES, IE has the market share right now. BUT they do NOT use Industry Standards, NOR do they understand Industry Standards. Now, this is MY personal opinion: But this is CRAP! Why would you want something that is proprietary. I DO think that if enough people start using other browsers, AND making pages that are according to W3C rules, the world would be a much better place. It would stop wars, end world hunger, and be the ultimate answer for world peace.
Click to expand...

And if everyone would just start using Macs...
Sure, Mozilla supports the W3C standard... a standard that includes the innovations of previous versions of IE and Netscape, and a standard that will eventually include current features of IE. If Netscape and IE didn't develop new features, I think HTML would not have developed as far as it has by now. Man, that was so sweet back in the day when you couldn't line up pictures without space between them...

And I bet the next version of HTML will look even more like Microsoft HTML.

It seems to me that a lot of people just really don't like Microsoft... inferiority complex?
Click to expand...

IE should use standards. That doesn't mean they shouldn't build on top of standards, but accept standards and fully support them (and mind you, I'm only talking standards from one group!), which at this point, it does not. Then get the new stuff in the new versions of the standards all you like.
But get HTML 4 (and XHTML 1) and CSS1/2 support working right first!
 
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
I disagree, I use to design webpages and it always sucked trying to get them to work properly with browsers other then IE. Opera and Mozilla would always run into problems rendering the page right even though IE worked fine. The extra work slowed us down so eventually we just stopped designing for other browsers since 95% were using IE anyways.
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Given the complexity of many sites that work fine on both browsers, how'd you manage it? I had to f*ck my prefered design for my own site because it was perfect HTML 4.01 transitional, perfectly fine CSS2, and worked in Mozilla 1.3.1, IE 4, and Opera 6.
Not IE 5.5 or IE 6. I was pretty proud of myself for getting it to work in IE 4, too (which was notoriously bad when using CSS--almost as bad as NN4).
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
Mozilla ownz IE. Who has the link of that webpage that doesn't work in IE?
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Can't find it anymore, but are you talking about that page with a few lines of code that completely crashes IE?

I mainly still use IE, but Mozilla Firebird is good for surfing sites with a lot of popups. Also, I'm trying to get Firebird to work with my Tablet PC, but it freaking crashes every 5 sites or so. Firebird rocks, but it's still in developments stages and have a lot of bugs.
 
The day Mozilla

- works fully with my Intellimouse Explorer functions
- loads faster initially
- is supported by the Yahoo Companion bar

I will switch. Until then, popup stopping by itself is not enough to make me switch. Tabbed browsing does not beat ALT-TAB.

BTW, since when do ATOTers take on admittedly buggy products? If MS did this with their free IE browser, you guys would be all over them. Some people just like to be different...
 
I don't understand why some of you like IE so much. I don't see any speed difference between the two in either startup or rendering, and I don't see things like popups, banner ads, or webpages or ActiveX components designed to crash my browser.
 
Originally posted by: rh71
The day Mozilla
BTW, since when do ATOTers take on admittedly buggy products? If MS did this with their free IE browser, you guys would be all over them. Some people just like to be different...
Click to expand...
IE = buggy as all fvck
<input type>

Mozilla = damn near bug free, any bugs found are usually gone within a few days.
 
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
I disagree, I use to design webpages and it always sucked trying to get them to work properly with browsers other then IE. Opera and Mozilla would always run into problems rendering the page right even though IE worked fine. The extra work slowed us down so eventually we just stopped designing for other browsers since 95% were using IE anyways.
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You either suck or are trying to put all sorts of crazy proprietary DHTML stuff on your page that no one cares about anyway. I write my pages once and nine times out of ten they display correctly in all three major browsers the first time. With the most recent versions of Mozilla and Opera its harder to break a page than to make one that looks perfect if you're writing using proper HTML, CSS, and W3C DOM
 
IE lacks:
Portability
Configurability
Tabbed browsing
Mouse gestures
Popup control
The ability to not fubar the OS just because I visited a webpage.

Mozilla Firebird (w/ an extention or two) and Opera both support all of these.
 
CrazyBrowser > Mozilla

A front end for IE.

It has all those features you guys keep harping on about Mozilla, except mouse gestures (what are those?).

And as little added advantage it works on every web site on the internet
 
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
I disagree, I use to design webpages and it always sucked trying to get them to work properly with browsers other then IE. Opera and Mozilla would always run into problems rendering the page right even though IE worked fine. The extra work slowed us down so eventually we just stopped designing for other browsers since 95% were using IE anyways.
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Who is "us"...what firm? Every professional designer and design firm I've worked with do not have this problem because this is usually addressed in the Design Documentation.
 
Originally posted by: Kev
CrazyBrowser > Mozilla

A front end for IE.

It has all those features you guys keep harping on about Mozilla, except mouse gestures (what are those?).

And as little added advantage it works on every web site on the internet
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Mouse gestures is just rightclicking and moving the mouse a very short distance to do things like open new windows, go forwards and backwards, refresh, etc....


But you still haven't addressed the fact that MS gave IE more rights than the user and it'll do fscking anything the webpage tells it to. Including changing registry keys.
 
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