I don't understand why Android tablet manufacturers are failing

[MrX8503]

Quite a few people store their videos locally on the device rather than stream it. The Exynos and Tegra 3 Android devices have no problem playing any 1080p content and OMAP4 devices can handle most content just fine too.

I don't doubt its capability, but the screen isn't 1080p. You're losing quality anyway so I'd rather downgrade the video to 720p than carry around full 1080p videos.

how would this work in the NYC subway 50 feet underground?

or in a corner of the house with poor wifi reception due to walls or lots of interference?

I throw up a queue of videos I'd like to watch and save the transcoded files to my mobile device. Once I'm done with the files I throw away the transcoded files and my full quality 1080p still lives on my NAS box.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I don't doubt its capability, but the screen isn't 1080p. You're losing quality anyway so I'd rather downgrade the video to 720p than carry around full 1080p videos.



I throw up a queue of videos I'd like to watch and save the transcoded files to my mobile device. Once I'm done with the files I throw away the transcoded files and my full quality 1080p still lives on my NAS box.

Most Android phones and tablets have HDMI outputs which would allow you to view the videos in full 1080p on a TV. Besides even if you are just watching them on a tablet you would still have to transcode them beforehand which is a waste of time when you could just use the full quality video instead.

 

[MrX8503]

Most Android phones and tablets have HDMI outputs which would allow you to view the videos in full 1080p on a TV. Besides even if you are just watching them on a tablet you would still have to transcode them beforehand which is a waste of time when you could just use the full quality video instead.

I can see that benefit of the HDMI out, for my use I just stream to my HDTV via my WHS. If I'm at home there's no waiting via streaming/transcoding. Its only when I leave the house I have to wait for a transcode or I can just throw the entire file on to my device. Before I travel though, I normally just throw up a queue the night before and transfer what I need. I don't keep large files on my devices anymore, that's what I have a WHS for.

 

[dagamer34]

I don't doubt its capability, but the screen isn't 1080p. You're losing quality anyway so I'd rather downgrade the video to 720p than carry around full 1080p videos.



I throw up a queue of videos I'd like to watch and save the transcoded files to my mobile device. Once I'm done with the files I throw away the transcoded files and my full quality 1080p still lives on my NAS box.

Transcoding an entire library of movies and TV shows and storing both 1080p and 720p versions in some location is rather cumbersome.

 

[MrX8503]

Transcoding an entire library of movies and TV shows and storing both 1080p and 720p versions in some location is rather cumbersome.

I don't store two versions. I only have one 1080p version. When I transcode, it converts the video on the fly while streaming. When I'm done watching the movie, there isn't a second file left over.

Here's a wiki on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcoding

 

[Eug]

I didn't buy the Nexus to play 1080p files.

But you're right on the tablet front, expandable storage is a necessity for tablets. The Tab 8.9 I picked up, which is a first tier tablet despite its age, only has 16GB of storage. And that gets filled up very quickly when loading it with 720p videos. Still, it supports external flash memory via an adapter. Works quite well, though its more of a pain than just having storage on the device.

The summer's high end Android tablets better all have expandable storage, given then they'll all have 1080p screens and the processing power to play HD video at that resolution.

The cheapo Chinese tablets are not representative of Android and you should have been aware of that before you bought one. Its a little dishonest of you to return it knowing this. You get what you pay for.

I specifically asked if NTFS was supported and was told that it was.

It turns out this was false. The guy who told me this has the exact same model tablet, and swears his drives are NTFS. So either he's just mistaken, or else his build of Android has the NTFS support added by the manufacturer. He'll check again, but either way it's irrelevant because my specific tablet I got does not support NTFS.

Actually I'd prefer exFAT over NTFS, since my Macs have read/write support for exFAT, but as a last resort I'd even accept ext3 support.

BTW, which tablets support NTFS (or exFAT)? I understand that the Asus Transformer Prime does. I'm not interested in a 10" tablet though. (And rooting doesn't count.)

I don't store two versions. I only have one 1080p version. When I transcode, it converts the video on the fly while streaming. When I'm done watching the movie, there isn't a second file left over.

Here's a wiki on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcoding

This doesn't help for me. I have no use for streaming my videos at home. I watch movies on my projector or my TV. I need local storage on the tablet for use on the road.

Anyways, I think I'll just use one of my laptops until the state of the Android tablet union improves.

 

[deathBOB]

I think these technical differences are completely beside the point. Android tablets are suffering relative to the iPad, Kindle, and Nook because of weak branding. The strength of the Apple & Amazon brands is that even uneducated (most) consumers can trust them to provide a good experience.

I see Samsung kind of trying to change that, but dissing other products doesn't seem like a great way to instill confidence in your own products. I also think it doesn't help when there are so many permutations of products to choose from/be confused by.

 

[Eug]

I think these technical differences are completely beside the point. Android tablets are suffering relative to the iPad, Kindle, and Nook because of weak branding. The strength of the Apple & Amazon brands is that even uneducated (most) consumers can trust them to provide a good experience.

I see Samsung kind of trying to change that, but dissing other products doesn't seem like a great way to instill confidence in your own products. I also think it doesn't help when there are so many permutations of products to choose from/be confused by.

That's a very good point, but technical/design issues are still important. I think the Android UI is somewhat disjointed, and non-intuitive. The market fragmentation doesn't help, but even the standard UI isn't ideal.

BTW, the fact that there are lots of apps right on Google Play that require rooting definitely doesn't instil confidence in the platform.

 

[Bateluer]

I specifically asked if NTFS was supported and was told that it was.

It turns out this was false. The guy who told me this has the exact same model tablet, and swears his drives are NTFS. So either he's just mistaken, or else his build of Android has the NTFS support added by the manufacturer. He'll check again, but either way it's irrelevant because my specific tablet I got does not support NTFS.

Who provided this information? Another user, the sellar, or the manufacturer?

 

[MrX8503]

If you don't want to stream then store it on the device in a format it can read. I don't see an issue here.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Sorry if I am late with this information Eug but I use this to mount Ext SD card on rooted Android devices:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1184767

It won't mount automatically. And I recommend ext2 to keep journaling from ruining the card. Change the script from ext4 to ext2 and it will work. I use it for the same reason you want to (up to 30GB files).

 

[Puddle Jumper]

That's a very good point, but technical/design issues are still important. I think the Android UI is somewhat disjointed, and non-intuitive. The market fragmentation doesn't help, but even the standard UI isn't ideal.

BTW, the fact that there are lots of apps right on Google Play that require rooting definitely doesn't instil confidence in the platform.

Are you sure that tablet is even running ICS because it certainly is not in the images at the link you posted.

Judging android by that tablet is completely pointless. Go to your local best buy and look at a Galaxy Tab, Transformer Prime, or Xyboard if you want to see what a real Android device is like.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

That's a very good point, but technical/design issues are still important. I think the Android UI is somewhat disjointed, and non-intuitive. The market fragmentation doesn't help, but even the standard UI isn't ideal.

BTW, the fact that there are lots of apps right on Google Play that require rooting definitely doesn't instil confidence in the platform.

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

 

[Zaap]

Transcoding an entire library of movies and TV shows and storing both 1080p and 720p versions in some location is rather cumbersome.

Moaning that you can't copy 5GB movies to a medium that can't handle file sizes that large is even more cumbersome.

It just doesn't take that long on a decent system to rip a movie to a manageable size for viewing on a device with a screen resolution of 800 x 480. Hell, the most basic MP4 rip using iPod Touch/iPhone settings would look perfectly fine on that.

Just transferring several gargantuan 5-6GB files to even the fastest microSD card probably takes quite a while as well, and then you have what, 4 or 5 movies on even the biggest cards? So much for that entire library.

This so-called 'problem' probably doesn't rate too high on any tablet developer's must-do list.

 

[JD50]

<snip>

You're judging Android on a cheap chinese knockoff? FAIL.

 

[JD50]

BTW, the fact that there are lots of apps right on Google Play that require rooting definitely doesn't instil confidence in the platform.

That statement makes absolutely no sense, can you elaborate please?

 

[Eug]

Are you sure that tablet is even running ICS because it certainly is not in the images at the link you posted.

4.0.3. (They just installed ICS on these in the last month.)

Judging android by that tablet is completely pointless. Go to your local best buy and look at a Galaxy Tab, Transformer Prime, or Xyboard if you want to see what a real Android device is like.

I will admit it's the first ICS machine I've checked out, but it's not as I've never checked out other Android devices.

That statement makes absolutely no sense, can you elaborate please?

The whole point of applications is to make our lives easier, not geekier. A truly consumer oriented store would probably want to ban apps requiring rooting altogether.

BTW, I'm not talking about "open". I'm talking about consumer-focused, since this is largely what this thread is about. (Openness vs. not is different discussion.)

Sorry if I am late with this information Eug but I use this to mount Ext SD card on rooted Android devices:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1184767

It won't mount automatically. And I recommend ext2 to keep journaling from ruining the card. Change the script from ext4 to ext2 and it will work. I use it for the same reason you want to (up to 30GB files).

Thanks, but this is a pretty good example of exactly what I was talking about, in the context of this thread. Most consumers don't want to have to do this sort of thing.

What I'd envision for an ideal Android tablet:

1) Buy tablet.
2) Get movie.
3) If for on-the-road use, put movie on external SD card.
4) Enjoy movie.

 

[MrX8503]

Laptops, phones, and tablets of various sizes is the reason why I do transcoding. I know some prefer their own methods, but once you go WHS, you'll never go back.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

What I'd envision for an ideal Android tablet:

1) Buy tablet.
2) Get movie.
3) If for on-the-road use, put movie on external SD card.
4) Enjoy movie.

You can do exactly that on any of the official Android tablets. The problem is those obscure tablets like the one you purchased cut every possible corner. Judging by your comments I'd even suspect they messed up the UI since I found ICS to be beautiful on the Galaxy Nexus and I thought it had a very unified design.

Basically you get what you pay for.

 

[Eug]

Laptops, phones, and tablets of various sizes is the reason why I do transcoding. I know some prefer their own methods, but once you go WHS, you'll never go back.

Well this does offer advantages but it doesn't work on a plane, and it's not a viable solution on the road either since 3G reliability in many city downtowns is suspect, and such streaming eats thru "unlimited" plans in no time.

At home I don't care, because I just watch on my Blu-ray player... which happens to support NTFS out of the box.

 

[JD50]

The whole point of applications is to make our lives easier, not geekier. A truly consumer oriented store would probably want to ban apps requiring rooting altogether.

BTW, I'm not talking about "open". I'm talking about consumer-focused, since this is largely what this thread is about. (Openness vs. not is different discussion.)

Ummm....wow, ok, not quite sure how to respond to that.

People use these "geekier" apps because THEY find them useful. Just because YOU don't find them useful, you want them banned entirely? Wow.

I think you might just be a little too cool for Android, you should probably just stick with Apple products.

 

[JD50]

What I'd envision for an ideal Android tablet:

1) Buy tablet.
2) Get movie.
3) If for on-the-road use, put movie on external SD card.
4) Enjoy movie.

I can do that on my $200 Kindle Fire, except I don't have to mess with an SD card.

1. Rent or buy a couple of movies from Amazon.
2. Download them before my flight.
3. Watch movies on the plane.

Most consumers don't burn movies to an external storage device either, so that point's moot if you're gonna go down that path. But if you really wanna go there, just buy one of the several mainstream Android tablets that have SD card slots.

 

[dagamer34]

Moaning that you can't copy 5GB movies to a medium that can't handle file sizes that large is even more cumbersome.

It just doesn't take that long on a decent system to rip a movie to a manageable size for viewing on a device with a screen resolution of 800 x 480. Hell, the most basic MP4 rip using iPod Touch/iPhone settings would look perfectly fine on that.

Just transferring several gargantuan 5-6GB files to even the fastest microSD card probably takes quite a while as well, and then you have what, 4 or 5 movies on even the biggest cards? So much for that entire library.

This so-called 'problem' probably doesn't rate too high on any tablet developer's must-do list.

I was commenting on the fact that it takes time to rip a 100 movie collection then transcode it to an MP4 file that can easily be transferred to a tablet. Heck, it's probably faster just to download the "ready made" MKV file using Bittorrent.

 

[Zaap]

I was commenting on the fact that it takes time to rip a 100 movie collection then transcode it to an MP4 file that can easily be transferred to a tablet. Heck, it's probably faster just to download the "ready made" MKV file using Bittorrent.

Maybe my point was more subtle.

Logically:you're not going to be taking your 100 movie collection *anywhere* at 6GB a pop, unless of course transferring 600GB to microSD cards isn't in any way time consuming. (Yeah, sure.)

So ripping the *same* 5 or 6 movies that you'd take with you anyway, that actually can be played on the device (and make no perceived difference quality wise) doesn't actually take that much time, and makes more sense than grousing about Android for not catering to a far less likely and less logical 'solution'.

 

[Eug]

Ummm....wow, ok, not quite sure how to respond to that.

People use these "geekier" apps because THEY find them useful. Just because YOU don't find them useful, you want them banned entirely? Wow.

I think you might just be a little too cool for Android, you should probably just stick with Apple products.

I didn't say they should be banned completely. However I'm saying there is a philosophical disconnect here if a number of apps on Google's store require rooting. The argument here isn't what's good for you and me, two geeks on AnandTech, but what's good for Android as a commercial consumer-oriented platform.

Most consumers don't burn movies to an external storage device either, so that point's moot if you're gonna go down that path. But if you really wanna go there, just buy one of the several mainstream Android tablets that have SD card slots.

Now we have gone full circle, since this was my original criticism. Most mainstream tablets with SD card slots do not support large file sizes, even in ICS, even though the units themselves may be advertised as having 1080p playback support.