No, there's a huge difference between a right and a privilege. Marraige/civil unions are privileges with defined legal restrictions/benefits. I thought that the people against gay marraige are trying to retain the traditional definition of marraige as a male/female relationship. Gay couples want the benefits of being married. Gay civil unions would make most of America happy.
If I'm crazy I'm sorry.
Anyway, this is getting off topic for the thread.
It's not a difference in rights, it's a difference in the name. Gay people want the rights, they don't care about the name. Straight people care about the name, they don't care about the rights. This is in general, obviously this doesn't cover everyone.
well a civil union affords them the same legal rights that marriage does except it's not called marriage and they're not 'husband and husband', it's all just semantics over the name of it.
You have to understand two things:
1) Bush doesn't "hate" gay people, he is just against their way of life.
2) Neither Bush nor Kerry will be able to make gay marriages a reality, so it's about who makes the most sense on other issues.
BTW, I'm not happy with Bush myself and would be happy to vote a Democrat in if they would propose a suitable candidate. John Kerry is a lunatic. Try again.
Note that word "personally." As in, "IMO." This is all about your opinion.
You can end this thread right now because the answer to your question is, not everyone believes in universal health care like you do, Ameesh, and not everyone believes that going into Iraq was the wrong thing to do (whatever the reasons). Neither Bush nor Kerry will make gay marriages or civil unions a reality, so it comes down to looking at the other issues, at which point you're really just asking why Republicans like a Republican, which everyone can agree is a pointless question to ask.
(this should have been in P&N anyway, not in OT)
END THREAD HERE
Wow, a very good argument. It's like regular people can't get a bris, but the can get a circum... circule.. snip. It's like bris is only reserved for Jewish people.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
I don't find the idea of log cabin Republicans strange, but in the context of our present administration I find the idea of a gay Republican something of a contradiction. IMO there is no sound, non-religious reason to support a constitutional amendment prohibiting gay marriage but allow civil unions, and so the whole matter ceases to be about anything other than a religiously-based rejection of the homosexual lifestyle. Whatever one thinks of gay rights (and I am all for them), this would be a stunningly stupid precedent to set constitutionally IMO, and indicative of a deeply disturbing trend in modern American politics.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,525
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This is what's wrong with the two party system.
A person can be for everything a party stands for, except one issue, and completely ignores everything except that one issue.
I've met vocal Democrats that when asked what party issues they support, they focus on one social issue, yet when they elaberate on other issues they are far more conservative than liberal.
In fact, it is this very thing that has the vast majority of black voters snowed. If you ask a lot of black folks about individual issues, you'll find many of them are quite conservative either fiscally, or socially, or both. Ask them why they vote Democrat and they say "civil rights." It really makes one wonder. I guess the hearding mentality is still a bit too strong in humans
A person can be for everything a party stands for, except one issue, and completely ignores everything except that one issue.
I've met vocal Democrats that when asked what party issues they support, they focus on one social issue, yet when they elaberate on other issues they are far more conservative than liberal.
In fact, it is this very thing that has the vast majority of black voters snowed. If you ask a lot of black folks about individual issues, you'll find many of them are quite conservative either fiscally, or socially, or both. Ask them why they vote Democrat and they say "civil rights." It really makes one wonder. I guess the hearding mentality is still a bit too strong in humans
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,525
- 20,172
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Any rational person can see that a Constitutional Amendment of this type has a snowball's chance in hell of passing.
The right loves to pander to the religious-right... yet very little gets passed in their favor. The religious right's best victories have been small local governments, and even the laws those have managed to pass have been thrown out by the courts.
I used to be a very strident atheist who was all up in arms about the RR... until i took a step back and looked at the situation objectively.
DT4K
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2002
- 6,944
- 3
- 81
It would have been moved by now if the OP wasn't a Lifer.
I'm curious, how many posts do you need to have before you can start ignoring the topic area and posting whatever you like in whichever area you like?
On the topic though, no, I don't find it strange at all.
I think Bush's stance on gay marriage is completely without any non-religious justification, but I won't be voting for Kerry.
There are gay republicans just like there are pro-life democrats.
If you agree with one candidate on 90% of the issues and you agree with the other candidate on 10% of the issues, who are you going to vote for?
The answer seems rather obvious to me.
yeah. i like black people, but i don't think they should be able to vote or sit at the front of the bus.
you know that thing between your ears? i think it stalled, you need to drop into posting neutral until you can get it started up again.
:roll:
DT4K
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2002
- 6,944
- 3
- 81
If you think it's not possible to be opposed to gay marriage without hating gay people then you are the one who needs to clean out your ears and open your mind. As I said, I think gay people should have the same rights to marry as everyone else. And I think the idea of a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage is totally wrong. But assuming someone "hates" gay people simply because they disagree is silly.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
For the last time, gay marriage is NOT a civil rights issue.
Gays can vote, sit in the front of the bus (if they so choose), use the same bathrooms and restaurants as straights, and work the same jobs. Gays have the same marriage rights that everyone else does. And gay males in the US are the wealthiest large demographic in the world.
So kindly do not pass the bullsh!t about the poor gays being discriminated against, or that for one to be opposed to gay marriage means that one hates gays. That is simply a very false and inflammatory argument.
Considering the poverty and hardship that black persons suffered before adequate civil rights, and the affluence of the average gay male in the US today, comparing gay marriage to the Civil Rights movement is an insult to every black person in the US.
sitting at the front of the bus is the beggining of civil rights not the end. why would support trying to forcibly segrate a community on purpose?
Originally posted by: Vic
No, 'Lil John is an insult to every black person in the US. Get it straight.
No, 'Lil John is an insult to every black person in the US. Get it straight.
If you bothered to do any research at all you would have seen that as someone pointed out the group is seriously considering whether or not they will back Bush, however with that said why one cannot fathom there are "gays" who are also republican seem rather small minded IMHO...maybe they realize, or at least those who never plan on "marrying" realize that the introduction of a rather large high health cost demographic into a system that previously didn't provide for "free" benefits to partners would jack individuals already staggering medicare bills..gotta remember, with this move you are giving a whole bunch of people, who studies have shown have much higher medical costs due to their lifestyle and who traditionally had to pay for their own health care, free benefits which will ultimately raise costs for everyone across the board.
Why this wasn't posted on politics and news is beyond me.
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