I DO NOT CONSENT! (my claim to defend with my life)

[Zorkorist]

The people aren't the means of production. Factories, business, etc are.

Plus nobody owns the people anyway.

You don't understand socialism, which this clearly isn't.

It sure would be nice if it had some socialism in it though.

I've never seen a factory run itself.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Hell, I've never seen a Factory produce anything.

People are the means of production.

-John

 

[MotF Bane]

The people aren't the means of production. Factories, business, etc are.

Plus nobody owns the people anyway.

You don't understand socialism, which this clearly isn't.

It sure would be nice if it had some socialism in it though.

Means of production is the people, not the factories. You fail.

 

[jpeyton]

In fact, I haven't found a time when the government EVER acted in my best interest.

 

[flavio]

Means of production is the people, not the factories. You fail.

Really? Multiple people get this basic fucking thing wrong? Pathetic.

"Means of production (abbreviated MoP; German: Produktionsmittel) refers to physical, non-human, inputs used in production including factories, machines, and tools; along with both infrastructural capital and natural capital. This includes the classical factors of production minus financial capital and minus human capital. They include two broad categories of objects: instruments of labour (tools, factories, infrastructure, etc.) and subjects of labour (natural resources and raw materials). People operate on the subjects of labour, using the instruments of labour, to create a product; or, stated another way, labour acting on the means of production creates a product.[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means_of_production

 

[JoshGuru7]

In many ways western fear mongering is worse than it was in USSR. The Russians knew that much of what they heard was bullshit. People would not be fleeing USSR in hopes of getting to western Europe or USA if they believed the media and honestly thought the west was a terrible place. There wouldn't be a Berlin Wall to keep people from escaping; truly brainwashed people would not want to escape in the first place.

I know you're intentionally exaggerating a bit here, but that's a little ridiculous even for hyperbole.

there's a significant number of people who are deathly afraid of socialism and they don't know why. They're afraid of Marxism but they can't clearly explain what that even means (I don't know either). This is what brainwashing looks like.

Very few bother to understand the economics behind capitalism, but they know that Cuba and the USSR didn't fare very well on standard of living comparisons under communism while the US fared a lot better. It's perfectly rational to argue for status quo when the status quo appears to be good and you really don't need to play the "brainwashing" card to explain it.

Marxism really revolves around the idea that profits are "surplus value" which increase the inherent costs of production and drive the costs up to the consumer. The goal is to make everything more for affordable for everybody by getting rid of the lost production that is stolen by capitalists from laborers. When prices are lower then the standard of living will be correspondly higher.

Check out The Turning Point: Revitalizing the Soviet Economy by Nikolai Shmelev and Vladimir Popov for an economic perspective of the USSR during the cold war from a couple of soviet economists with no political axe to grind other than suggesting improvements for their own country.

 

[Jaskalas]

You are sounding so distraught over a health care bill. we are living way better lives than many many on this planet so consider yourself lucky with or without this bill.

As a nation we've created the kind of tyrannical centralized body that we fled from when we left Europe two centuries ago.

The distress comes from the loss of ones nation. Each continued take over of the people by their ruling class is another stark reminder that the blood spilled for our freedoms have been for naught.

Republicans give us Patriot Acts. Democrats give us Entitlements. Who needs human rights once you've got those?

 

[Taejin]

moron train is coming to town! woo woo!

 

[AzureNightmareX1]

moron train is coming to town! woo woo!

And you're the engineer driving the damn thing. Congratulations!

 

[Taejin]

And you're the engineer driving the damn thing. Congratulations!

Lies

 

[AzureNightmareX1]

Lies

Only liars deny accusations.

 

[umbrella39]

No problem Rock Hydra, just leave the USA, renounce your citizenship, find some country more to your liking, and don't let the exit door hit you on your Butt.

But if you choose to stay, you have to play by the rules. You can't pick and choose what benefits you accept and what liabilities you reject.

This. Wake up OP.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Wouldn't it be great if Medicare covered everyone of every age and had an option to opt-out? People who want socialized medicine would be a part of Medicare. People who want nothing to do with socialized medicine (spidey) could opt out and get a credit on their taxes. Actually, we should have that for schools too. In Sweden they are called education vouchers.
edit: The school voucher means you can go to any private or public school and X amount is covered by the government. I do not want to give the impression that you're allowed to opt out of paying education taxes. That would just be stupid.

That "public option" was on the table at one point. Unfortunately Obama is a horrible president and it's no longer on the table even though the democrats have a larger majority than Bush had while he was doing crazy shit and starting wars.

The ignorance is strong in this one...

 

[flavio]

The ignorance is strong in this one...

Care to explain what you find ignorant exactly?

 

[santz]

So, now that socialism is gripping tighter and tighter on U.S. Citizens, repeating the 60-some year mistake that the UK claimed themselves that they imposed. I am now moving forward with my plans to disassociate myself with the UNITED STATES. No longer will I contract with a business so pervertedly corrupted as to force it's constituents into a nationalized SCAM. In fact, I haven't found a time when the government EVER acted in my best interest. Rarely has my account (readockets) been credited for the revenue collected by the debtors. They always offered me benefit privileges which ended up bleeding me out of money over the lifetime of the contract without significant returns. As a creditor to the UNITED STATES, this appalls me. Tyranny has ground its muddy boots into my couch for the last time. now it's time to "bust some legs" so to speak and kick this corporation to the curb, and it'll be me screaming "Shoulda never gave you *****'s money!" So, with my ranting out....I refuse to publicly insure myself, and they can jail me all they want, ha ha ha. I'll just work out and eat off everyone else's dime and have barely a care in the world. But know that I and a hell of a lot of other people aren't going without asserting thier rights given to all men in GOD's kingdom. The Constitution for the United States of America is now openly shat on (and the Magna Carta soon to be meaningless, I fear), so it's time to write a new one. Write YOUR constitution....and live by it. I am urging people who are tired of this police state/nanny state, who are tired of being subjects of the Queeen of England (now publicly traded), and are willing to protect those rights with their life, to research their rights, disassociate with their person, and live peacefully among other men. We are granted a great privilege to be born in a place where NOWHERE ELSE in the world would even dream to make a country like the one planned in the late 1700's. These people were FLEEING centralization and persecution. So I ask people now....where are you going to run to or are you going to stand your ground and take back sovereignty?



Cliffs:
I DO NOT Consent to healthcare
If you don't want it, neither should you (maybe do a little understanding of how things are)


Oh...and I wanna clear something up I keep hearing about Seatbelt codes, vehicle code, and income taxes. If you have a SSN, you are OBLIGATED to follow said rules, to the letter, or you are committing a FRAUD of CONTRACT. You grant corpus juris (maritime jurisdiction) to the governing body appointed by the party providing the benefit privileges.

All law = commerce
commerce = contract
without contract, there is no case....period.



Anyone else here researching these things? I would like to discuss peoples' ideas here about their dissension/secession?

lol u say the govt. does nothing for you. why dont you go stay anywhere outside USA and see what that country's govt does for you.

Be it UK, or Iraq, China or India. What USA has provided its people( safety, security, standard of living, and now universal health care, no other country can match it. Many have the same privileges but not the same quality of privileges.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Its like Pee Wee's Play House. We are given a secret word and when someone utters it, we're supposed to run around and scream like a crazy person.

Most excellent analogy!!! That is dead on accurate

"The secret word is 'Socialism' "

 

[zCypher]

What happened to the OP? lol

 

[2Xtreme21]

"Remember guys, the NAZIS were socialist! So were the soviets! And the terrorists! Therefore, if we enact this "socialized health care" bill, we are submitting to the Democrats and Obama's communist/anarchist/islamo-fascist agenda."
- Republicans.

 

[yottabit]

To the OP, you are right, America has never done anything for you. Have fun "disassociating yourself", defending your own land, trying to hunt food for yourself, trying to heal your family members on your own, provide yourself your own transportation, geeze what a shitty country. I wish I lived in someplace that had more freedom.

I'd recommend you take a vacation to North Korea, then come back and tell me you don't like America. Of course you wouldn't be able to come back, but that's part of the joke.

Just trying to put things in perspective... this is still a great country. We have a long ways to go to become a real tyranny.

 

[shiner]

Here's a post that makes as much sense as the OP:

A little cornbread in the washing machine set to 425 degrees causes the fuel injection system to produce strawberry cupcakes iced perfectly with the tears of tap dancing midgets who drink paneling nails and sing songs about their love for 15K SAS drives running a SQL database containing all the knowledge of a retarded 3rd grader in North Dakota. Amen.

 

[shiner]

What happened to the OP? lol

His brain assploded

 

[yottabit]

What happened to the OP? lol

He disassociated himself. He's probably busy looking for a non-American ISP that shares similar moral values as him, but that he can still use in America, so that the way he is living his life can be in alignment with his moral values.

Just don't expect to see him online again anytime soon.

 

[ShawnD1]

I've never seen a factory run itself.

-John

I have. I was part of the night crew at a drug manufacturing plant and almost everything was automated. All humans had to do was clean parts and add chemicals to the storage tanks.

 

[Pens1566]

Contact your State Legislators and Governor. Demand they fight unconstitutional laws of the federal government. Let them know that you and others are prepared to fight for state's rights against tyranny.

Demand they call a constitutional convention to stop what the federal government is doing. These are our rights as free men and free states. Guaranteed by the ruling document of our country. Do your part.

Needs more revolution ... B-

 

[Daverino]

Cliffs:
I DO NOT Consent to healthcare
If you don't want it, neither should you (maybe do a little understanding of how things are)

Oh bullcrap. You get your "I don't have health insurance" ass hit by a car and end up in the ER you're getting healthcare. I suppose I could say 'I DO NOT Consent' to you getting free care on my dime and let you bleed out from superficial wounds. But that's not the country I want to live in and that's not the type of people that Americans are.

So let's be honest. Everyone gets free healthcare in the US already. Everyone who pays taxes and has insurance already subsidizes the 32 million without insurance. This includes the 'I DO NOT Consent' crowd.

And generally speaking, the 'I DO NOT Consent' crowd tend to change their tune really quickly when they find out they have leukemia.