I changed my view on illegal immigrants.

[sportage]

Legalize them. Employ them. Tax them.
Right now were fudging on the first part, and leaving out the latter part.
The middle part is doing just fine since everyone loves cheap labor.
Just ask Mitt Romney.

 

[michal1980]

Legalize them. Employ them. Tax them.
Right now were fudging on the first part, and leaving out the latter part.
The middle part is doing just fine since everyone loves cheap labor.
Just ask Mitt Romney.

all those working farms will surely benefit the national bottom line.

How stupid can you be.

A real immigration policy might be to selectively legalize people. Those that have a positive benefit to the country can stay, and maybe become citizens. Those that cannot, I say we might give them the benefit of staying. But they could never become a citizen.

 

[Vic]

wrong:

http://www.politifact.com/texas/sta...arter-claim-40-percent-nations-illegal-resid/

From your own link:
" By email, Frank Bean, director of the Center for Research on Immigration, Population and Public Policy at the University of California-Irvine, suggested that because the cited percentage is rooted in data for the 1990s, it may well be low. "Since then," Bean said, "the pool of persons" who are "candidates to overstay their visas has grown immensely. *Even if the rate at which persons on visas overstay them has remained constant, the raw numbers of those doing so could have increased, and done so disproportionately enough to make the 40 percent figure rise. *Unfortunately, we have no way of estimating this with accuracy."

 

[Vic]

Education, talent, entrepreneurship, and wealth. That is how you describe the impoverished peasants we get, who count themselves fortunate to even read / write their own language?

Pardon, I come from California with first hand accounts of the "wealth" the foreign invasion brings. I do not value it as you do. We only "need" them for dehumanizing jobs that should pay a living wage yet offer them !@#$. I fear the only "wealth" to be found is in cheap labor, but I would not see any under our country suffer as such.

Do you count me as mistaken, for rejecting their role in our society as cheap labor?

I repeat the question: would you prefer to live in one of the countries that these people are emigrating from?

Immigration is perhaps the best problem a country can have. And hardly every immigrant is poor. Not even close. If I count you as mistaken, it's that you believe that bullshit. Along with the bullshit that they can be stopped from coming.

 

[michal1980]

I repeat the question: would you prefer to live in one of the countries that these people are emigrating from?

Immigration is perhaps the best problem a country can have. And hardly every immigrant is poor. Not even close. If I count you as mistaken, it's that you believe that bullshit. Along with the bullshit that they can be stopped from coming.

immigrant does not equal illegal.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/14/iv-social-and-economic-characteristics/

Illegals are poorer, and less educated then both US citizens and legal immigrants.

 

[werepossum]

I repeat the question: would you prefer to live in one of the countries that these people are emigrating from?

Immigration is perhaps the best problem a country can have. And hardly every immigrant is poor. Not even close. If I count you as mistaken, it's that you believe that bullshit. Along with the bullshit that they can be stopped from coming.

We have enough immigrants that we are becoming an amalgam of those countries, so that decision is being made for us.

 

[Vic]

We have enough immigrants that we are becoming an amalgam of those countries, so that decision is being made for us.

This is something new? Before the Mexicans, it was the Italians. Before them, the Irish, and so forth.
Would you argue that America is a worse off country today because of the immigrants of the past?

Here's another way to look at it. Consider how many children who grow up in small towns and rural areas move to big cities looking for opportunity when they become adults. Does this benefit the small towns they come from? Of course not. And while the influx of people does put a strain on the cities, it is well worth it.

 

[xj0hnx]

your being dishonest in what you are posting!
That is nowhere near the truth.

You are taking everything out of context to suit your own dishonest needs!

He has jumped through every hoop that they have asked him to jump through. Nowhere does it say he has not taken the time to apply or pay the fees.....

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/02/justice/california-immigrant-lawyer/index.html

Sergio Garcia's parents brought him to the United States from Mexico nearly two decades ago. He's been waiting for a green card ever since.

Garcia was born in Mexico in 1977 and taken to California by his parents when he was 17 months old, according to court documents.

He remained there until 1986, when he and his parents returned to Mexico. Eight years later, at age 17, Garcia again returned to California with his parents and without documentation, though his father had obtained permanent resident status in the United States.

That year, Garcia's father filed an immigration visa petition on his son's behalf, which federal immigration officials accepted in 1995. But, 19 years later, the visa has not been granted, even though Garcia has lived in the state since 1994.

"Because the current backlog of persons of Mexican origin who are seeking immigrant visas is so large, as of the date of this opinion -- more than 19 years after Garcia's visa petition was filed -- a visa number still has not become available for Garcia," the Supreme Court's ruling said.

...

"He does have an immigration application pending," she said. "It's more a result of the broken immigration system that we currently have that he's been waiting 19 years."

Bullshit, there is something left out of this tripe. "Backlog of persons of Mexican origin" HA, that's got shit to do with it. AND as Nehalem pointed out, the time to apply is BEFORE you illegally enter the country.

 

[JTsyo]

The way I see it there are too many illegals here to have any realistic chance of deporting any substantial fraction. Heck, more are probably coming than we deport each year. It'll cost too much to fund the deportation. Offering those here amnesty is the only thing that's going to work but first we have to secure the border. If we start offering amnesty and still allow the current rates of illegal immigration then things will just get worse. Cost wise it is much cheaper to secure the border than to hunt down and deport all that make it through.

 

[nixium]

Bullshit, there is something left out of this tripe. "Backlog of persons of Mexican origin" HA, that's got shit to do with it. AND as Nehalem pointed out, the time to apply is BEFORE you illegally enter the country.

It looks like they followed the law pretty well.

The only problem (if any) is that he didn't file for a visa while entering the country. I'm not even sure one is needed because he was under 21.

The real problem is this. After a legal green card petition has been filed for him, it takes him 19 years and counting to get the green card. I'm not sure how this can be thought of as reasonable, especially if his parents otherwise have permanent residency.

The visa less entry has nothing to do with it. Even if he had entered the country legally the backlog stays the same.

BTW, the backlog is one way in which the immigration system is broken. Everyone has to abide by the backlog - family based or employment based. So according to this logic (and the latest visa bulletin) Someone who got an MS degree in Harvard from China would have to wait four years, whereas someone with a Bachelor's degree from any of the "axis of evil" countries would get it in 6 months.

http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_6228.html


For a world power, having an immigration system like this is embarrassing.

I'm against illegal immigration but this guy deserves this ruling.

 

[BoberFett]

I don't see why this is depressing. Immigration is good for a country, not bad. It brings in education, talent, entrepreneurship, and wealth. Immigrants start businesses and buy property.
Or would you prefer to live in one of the countries these people are emigrating from?

You're serious? You believe our current immigration policy with Mexico benefits the US?

 

[ThinClient]

I'm part of the get-the-fuck-out crowd. If you can't come here legally in the first place, you're showing contempt for our laws and are more likely to flip the bird to other laws, too.

 

[Vic]

You're serious? You believe our current immigration policy with Mexico benefits the US?

Not at all. The border controls are costly and interfere with free trade while the notion of "illegal" immigration inhibits personal freedom and effectively creates a second class citizenship.

 

[nixium]

I'm part of the get-the-fuck-out crowd. If you can't come here legally in the first place, you're showing contempt for our laws and are more likely to flip the bird to other laws, too.

Read my post above. It's not clear cut. Even if he'd done everything right it would take 19 years+ for him to get residency. What do you propose he does in the meantime? Go on the dole? Why should someone educated not get a chance to practice those skills?

This is not your average border hopping/visa overstay illegal. It's someone who will get a green card, just take forever to get it.

 

[werepossum]

This is something new? Before the Mexicans, it was the Italians. Before them, the Irish, and so forth.
Would you argue that America is a worse off country today because of the immigrants of the past?

Here's another way to look at it. Consider how many children who grow up in small towns and rural areas move to big cities looking for opportunity when they become adults. Does this benefit the small towns they come from? Of course not. And while the influx of people does put a strain on the cities, it is well worth it.

From the viewpoint of the Native Americans, absolutely. Can you argue that the nation became better for those who were already here during the initial flood of immigration? Their cultures were absolutely destroyed. We're a polyglot nation, but not since the 17th century have we faced such a concentrated cultural immigration wave. Italians, Irish, Germans, these groups were all small compared to the extant population. By contrast, Hispanics are now the largest minority and are projected to become a plurality within just a few decades. Only our initial wave of European immigration in any way compares.

Even as late as World War I we had soldiers coming in who spoke little or no English. Between the wars we made a concentrated effort to make sure all Americans spoke English, so that by WWII this was extremely rare. Now however we're seeing two factors coming together, a relatively very large wave of Spanish-speaking (and to a lesser extent, Portuguese-speaking) immigrants (Mexico, Central and South America) and a conscious decision to not integrate these people. (Or indeed, ANY immigrants.) This will maximize disruption to our culture. None of this is accidental.

 

[ThinClient]

Read my post above. It's not clear cut. Even if he'd done everything right it would take 19 years+ for him to get residency. What do you propose he does in the meantime? Go on the dole? Why should someone educated not get a chance to practice those skills?

This is not your average border hopping/visa overstay illegal. It's someone who will get a green card, just take forever to get it.

I couldn't possibly give a shit.

 

[Vic]

From the viewpoint of the Native Americans, absolutely. Can you argue that the nation became better for those who were already here during the initial flood of immigration? Their cultures were absolutely destroyed. We're a polyglot nation, but not since the 17th century have we faced such a concentrated cultural immigration wave. Italians, Irish, Germans, these groups were all small compared to the extant population. By contrast, Hispanics are now the largest minority and are projected to become a plurality within just a few decades. Only our initial wave of European immigration in any way compares.

Even as late as World War I we had soldiers coming in who spoke little or no English. Between the wars we made a concentrated effort to make sure all Americans spoke English, so that by WWII this was extremely rare. Now however we're seeing two factors coming together, a relatively very large wave of Spanish-speaking (and to a lesser extent, Portuguese-speaking) immigrants (Mexico, Central and South America) and a conscious decision to not integrate these people. (Or indeed, ANY immigrants.) This will maximize disruption to our culture. None of this is accidental.

People made all of these same arguments back then too.

 

[OutHouse]

Immigration is perhaps the best problem a country can have.

Yea I'm sure turkey is overjoyed wirh the Syrians

 

[Vic]

Yea I'm sure turkey is overjoyed wirh the Syrians

Those are refugees not immigrants.

 

[werepossum]

People made all of these same arguments back then too.

Probably so. Does not invalidate them though. That a three foot wave did not swamp the village as feared does not mean that a thirty foot wave will also fail. Just ask a Cherokee.

 

[xj0hnx]

It looks like they followed the law pretty well.

The only problem (if any) is that he didn't file for a visa while entering the country. I'm not even sure one is needed because he was under 21.

The real problem is this. After a legal green card petition has been filed for him, it takes him 19 years and counting to get the green card. I'm not sure how this can be thought of as reasonable, especially if his parents otherwise have permanent residency.

The visa less entry has nothing to do with it. Even if he had entered the country legally the backlog stays the same.

BTW, the backlog is one way in which the immigration system is broken. Everyone has to abide by the backlog - family based or employment based. So according to this logic (and the latest visa bulletin) Someone who got an MS degree in Harvard from China would have to wait four years, whereas someone with a Bachelor's degree from any of the "axis of evil" countries would get it in 6 months.

http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_6228.html


For a world power, having an immigration system like this is embarrassing.

I'm against illegal immigration but this guy deserves this ruling.

Abiding by the backlog is fine, but there's no way it's 19 fucking years, there is something missing from that story. We had a couple guys in my unit get their citizenship, and even had one of the ceremonies in Iraq, a couple of the guys were from Mexico, and it had taken one a couple years, and the other several months, but there is no almost two decade "backlog".

 

[Vic]

Probably so. Does not invalidate them though. That a three foot wave did not swamp the village as feared does not mean that a thirty foot wave will also fail. Just ask a Cherokee.

So you would prefer to live in a mud hut with a 30 year (if you're lucky) life expectancy like the Cherokee did before the European immigrants arrived?

 

[werepossum]

So you would prefer to live in a mud hut with a 30 year (if you're lucky) life expectancy like the Cherokee did before the European immigrants arrived?

Of course not, but I would prefer American culture to Mexican/South American culture.

 

[CanOWorms]

This will maximize disruption to our culture. None of this is accidental.

That's a huge benefit to this country. Our culture is toxic. Millions of Americans openly ask for the end of times and the elimination of the federal government!

 

[Tango]

Build up Mexico. Lol.

Its the 13th wealthiest nation on earth. Look it up.

To put it in perspective, what most of us consider extremely well off nations in Europe (Sweden, Switzerland etc.) rank in the low 20‘s. Do we need to build those up too?

You are confusing GDP and GDP per capita.

Switzerland (~$79.000) and Sweden (~$55,000) have higher GDP capita than the United States, whereas Mexico is near the mid-bottom of the list (~$9,000).