I can't take this programming class much longer....

[Deeko]

I'm in an Advanced Programming Techniques class. The first half is unix, then java, the perl. Thank god after the midterm tomorrow this Unix sh!t is over. I could have learned to like Unix...I can assure you this professor had turned me off to it forever. I'm paying $1500 to be given assignments and teach myself how to do them on google. If you ask her how to do anything, all she'll say is "use the man page" which is rarely any help to the unix newb. Look at this latest part of an assignment.

2. Write, as a script, a "safe" delete command. Filenames passed as command-line arguments to this script are not deleted, but instead gzipped if not already compressed (use file to check), then moved to a /home/username/trash directory. At invocation, the script checks the "trash" directory for files older than 48 hours and deletes them.

Ok. Nothing exceedingly difficult here. What's the problem? We never learned that the file command even exists, let alone how to use it. When I read the man page, it says of an "extension" option....well, it doesn't tell you how to use that option, if you type "extension" it looks for a filename with that name. We also never learned how to implement unix commands into a script like that. If it were c++, I would redirect the output to a temp file, read that file and store it in a variable, thus getting my input from the command(this is assuming I knew hew to use the command). How does one do that with a script? Hell if I know.

This is ridiculous. i can't wait till we move on to java which I already know so i don't have to put up with this sh!t anymore.

 

[Heisenberg]

unix = WORST OS EVER

Err...no. You just haven't learned how to use it yet. The learning curve is much steeper than the pretty point-and-click GUI OS's, but it's far more powerful.

 

[KLin]

I'd say it's an instructor issue and not an OS issue. She shouldn't be teaching the class if she doesn't know the first thing about the material.

 

[notfred]

Why does any of that reflect on unix at all? What if she had told you do do the same thing on windows?

 

[Deeko]

She knows unix. she just won't teach it.

How does this reflect on unix? Trying to teach yourself how to do complex, inane sh!t on unix is the most frustrating, aggrevating thing I've ever done, and with every assignment I find myself hating the OS more and more. Maybe I wouldn't hate it if I'd been taught it properly....but thanks to this ugly b!tch I will be a Windows programmer for the rest of my life...

 

[cchen]

I took a very similar class last semester. I did quite well in it.

I can understand your frustrations, but thats the intent of the class. When you go into the real world you might be thrown into a project with an OS you aren't familiar with, software you aren't familiar with, as well as an obscure programming language that you've never even heard of.

And you know what? You gotta deal with it. The way to deal with it? Search the internet. Every assignment that I had, whether it was unix shell scripting, perl, javascript.... you could find something online that would help you, if you searched hard enough.

 

[Ornery]

"I'm paying $1500 to be given assignments and teach myself how to do them on google."

There's the part that would send me off. Any way to make her answer to somebody for that?

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"I'm paying $1500 to be given assignments and teach myself how to do them on google."

There's the part that would send me off. Any way to make her answer to somebody for that?

Thats the intent of a class like that... if a programmer can't find what information he needs by looking in books or searching online...... :disgust:

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Deeko
She knows unix. she just won't teach it.

How does this reflect on unix? Trying to teach yourself how to do complex, inane sh!t on unix is the most frustrating, aggrevating thing I've ever done, and with every assignment I find myself hating the OS more and more. Maybe I wouldn't hate it if I'd been taught it properly....but thanks to this ugly b!tch I will be a Windows programmer for the rest of my life...

So, not only are you qualifying something as horrible out of your own ignorance, you are also blaming someone else for that ignorance? That's extremely pathetic.

 

[Deeko]

I could understand that idea if this were an advanced class. its not. Its an entry-level unix class. man pages can be helpful to people that understand unix, but to those of us that have never used it before, they are very cryptic and hard to comprehend. I'm supposed to be TAUGHT unix in this class, not taught to teach it to myself.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: Ornery
"I'm paying $1500 to be given assignments and teach myself how to do them on google."

There's the part that would send me off. Any way to make her answer to somebody for that?

Thats the intent of a class like that... if a programmer can't find what information he needs by looking in books or searching online...... :disgust:

No kidding. It seems a lot of people expect to have someone to hold their ignorant hands all the way through a task.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Deeko
She knows unix. she just won't teach it.

How does this reflect on unix? Trying to teach yourself how to do complex, inane sh!t on unix is the most frustrating, aggrevating thing I've ever done, and with every assignment I find myself hating the OS more and more. Maybe I wouldn't hate it if I'd been taught it properly....but thanks to this ugly b!tch I will be a Windows programmer for the rest of my life...

So, not only are you qualifying something as horrible out of your own ignorance, you are also blaming someone else for that ignorance? That's extremely pathetic.

Oh really? Listen douche, this is a CLASS. If I wasn't ignorant on the subject, I wouldn't be in the class. That's the purpose of college, to LEARN. You aren't supposed to go into a class knowing everything about it. You're trying to tell me a teacher can't shape your view on the subject? My brother decided to switch from majoring in history/education to math/education because of ONE high school trig teacher. If the teacher is giving me a terrible experience in Unix, how does it NOT make sense that that will give me a negative view on the subject?

 

[kranky]

Does your library have a book on shell script programming? That would help a lot.

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: Deeko
I could understand that idea if this were an advanced class. its not. Its an entry-level unix class. man pages can be helpful to people that understand unix, but to those of us that have never used it before, they are very cryptic and hard to comprehend. I'm supposed to be TAUGHT unix in this class, not taught to teach it to myself.

well the class is titled "Advanced Programming Techniques." And from your description of the class, I dont think Unix is the focus of the class..... it just seems like exposure to the unix os and some scripting, as an introduction to some of the techniques and other programming topics that you wouldn't normally be exposed to

"unix shell scripting" in google - 79 pages of results

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Deeko
She knows unix. she just won't teach it.

How does this reflect on unix? Trying to teach yourself how to do complex, inane sh!t on unix is the most frustrating, aggrevating thing I've ever done, and with every assignment I find myself hating the OS more and more. Maybe I wouldn't hate it if I'd been taught it properly....but thanks to this ugly b!tch I will be a Windows programmer for the rest of my life...

So, not only are you qualifying something as horrible out of your own ignorance, you are also blaming someone else for that ignorance? That's extremely pathetic.

Oh really? Listen douche, this is a CLASS. If I wasn't ignorant on the subject, I wouldn't be in the class. That's the purpose of college, to LEARN. You aren't supposed to go into a class knowing everything about it. You're trying to tell me a teacher can't shape your view on the subject? My brother decided to switch from majoring in history/education to math/education because of ONE high school trig teacher. If the teacher is giving me a terrible experience in Unix, how does it NOT make sense that that will give me a negative view on the subject?

[edit]Bah, I'll drop it.[/edit]

 

[Deeko]

The class was just altered this year. It used to be called "unix". Now they put java and perl in the end, and changed the name. The first half is just teaching you unix.

 

[Pandamonium]

Give the man a break.

He paid to take an introductory level class. If the course instructor is incompetent in that capacity (to instruct), he's got every right to be upset. Don't be so quick to judge someone's intelligence when it's clear he's simply venting.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Deeko
The class was just altered this year. It used to be called "unix". Now they put java and perl in the end, and changed the name. The first half is just teaching you unix.

So what are you really expecting? Do you want her to write the script for you? If she told you precisely how to do everything, then how in the hell would it be an assignment?

It seems there is a lot of bitching related to this so-called informational deficiency. Neophytes are upset that the precise class required for the assignment wasn't discussed in their Java class, or they're upset that samples weren't given. That's half the damn point of being a programmer. There are plenty of brilliant programmers out there who were self taught, and part of the job is to be able to find answers to solutions that haven't been regurgitated pedagogically in some class.

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: xjedimasterx
Give the man a break.

He paid to take an introductory level class. If the course instructor is incompetent in that capacity (to instruct), he's got every right to be upset. Don't be so quick to judge someone's intelligence when it's clear he's simply venting.

because the teacher refuses to hold your hand, you'd call that incompetent? in class like calc 1, yes, i'd agree. in a class like the OP's, i would not.

 

[Ornery]

I'll be damned if I'd take that kinda shlt at $100.00 per hour! Make her earn it Deeko!

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: xjedimasterx
Give the man a break.

He paid to take an introductory level class. If the course instructor is incompetent in that capacity (to instruct), he's got every right to be upset. Don't be so quick to judge someone's intelligence when it's clear he's simply venting.

"Advanced programming techniques" is an introductory class?

I maintain that part of the point is being able to solve problems, and if you haven't developed the faculties required to solve problems without a known solution (to you at least), then the classes leading to this advanced class were deficient.

 

[esun]

It's funny some of you guys are comparing this class to a job. The idea of a class for you to learn; the idea of a job is for you to perform. Obviously, if the teacher is not teaching, learning is not going to happen by itself. That's why we have school in the first place. Heck, if what some of you are saying is true, then everyone should just stop attending school after learning how to use Google (maybe age 10 or so) and learn everything else independently. One of the reasons education in this country sucks is because people have such low expectations of teachers, allowing them to get away with stuff like this.

 

[virtuamike]

If shell scripting is considered advanced programming then I'd strongly consider going to a different school.

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: virtuamike
If shell scripting is considered advanced programming then I'd strongly consider going to a different school.

its not "advanced" but for those who have never touched unix before, it probably is to them

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: esun
It's funny some of you guys are comparing this class to a job. The idea of a class for you to learn; the idea of a job is for you to perform. Obviously, if the teacher is not teaching, learning is not going to happen by itself. That's why we have school in the first place. Heck, if what some of you are saying is true, then everyone should just stop attending school after learning how to use Google (maybe age 10 or so) and learn everything else independently. One of the reasons education in this country sucks is because people have such low expectations of teachers, allowing them to get away with stuff like this.

You might very well be right, but that's not with what I am personally taking issue. It's sad for someone to just throw their hands up and say something sucks because of a deficiency ostensibly not of their own. It seems so many people can't simply learn something on their own; they have to have someone pontificate for a few months for them to grasp it, and then they only do so if they explain absolutely everything. What happened to being self-sufficient? What happened to libraries? If your teacher isn't explaining things, then supplement. If the textbooks they used are not explained in a manner that is lucid to you, then supplement.

You say it's sad when teachers can't explain the minutiae of everything; I say it's sad when students can't be expected to learn anything on their own.