I can't seem to get definition (especially abs) @ 170lbs/6'2/<10% body fat. Why?

[DisgruntledVirus]

I'm trying to figure out what I need to do differently to get more "ripped" so to speak. I don't want to be a huge hulking guy as that isn't useful for running marathons which is my primary form of exercise.

My stats:
25
6'2
165-170
<10% body fat per BodPod (8% is what it reported at which is +/- 2% of hydro)

My diet:
-Breakfast veggie omlette (equivalent of 2 eggs, green+red bell peppers, musrooms, onion, cheese)
-Mid morning snack greek yogurt+granola+fruit (usually strawberries)
-Lunch usually salad bar (spinach+various veggies that are typical of salad bars) OR avacado turkey burger on whole grain bread with fruit and cous cous
-Afternoon snack is usually a bananna with some nut butter or other fruit
-Dinner is pretty varied, and depends. Usually has a salad or mixed frozen veggies

My exercise:
-As of now, just running 30+ miles/wk 4 days
-Want to incorporate weights/resistance, but unsure of what workouts I should be doing
-How well do resistance bands work? I have those at home, or access to equipment at work/school.

Any help/input would be appreciated. I think my diet is about where it needs to be (could stand to add some more veggies/fruits though), but exercise needs tweaked for non-run days to do upper body and other workouts. I'm just unsure of where to start. And am I correct that is what the issue is most likely?

 

[blinky8225]

Run less and lift more. If you're at <10% body fat and don't look ripped, you must be pretty weak. Focus on squats, deadlifts, bench press, and chins. If you can squat and deadlift twice your body weight, you'll looked pretty ripped at 10% body fat. Perhaps, the measurement is wrong as well. Get calipers to double check.

What is your primary goal? Is it to get ripped or run marathons fast? If it's the former, you really need to change the way you exercise. Also, you could use a lot more protein in your diet.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Run less and lift more. If you're at <10% body fat and don't look ripped, you must be pretty weak. Focus on squats, deadlifts, bench press, and chins. If you can squat and deadlift twice your body weight, you'll looked pretty ripped at 10% body fat. Perhaps, the measurement is wrong as well. Get calipers to double check.

What is your primary goal? Is it to get ripped or run marathons fast? If it's the former, you really need to change the way you exercise. Also, you could use a lot more protein in your diet.

Thanks for the reply.

I wouldn't say I'm "weak" although I'm also not as strong as I was back in HS when I was actively lifting.

The measurement is actually just as accurate as calipers, if not slightly moreso depending on where you're looking (http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwfit/bodycomp.html and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10702771 with the second one having more weight behind it IMO).

Primary goal is to run marathons. I would rather have a faster marathon time than a totally jacked body, thus I don't want to bulk at all. I understand that my weight will increase with additional muscle mass, but I can live with that if I am happy with my body definition. Also, I can't drop running if I want to do marathons as I'm not much above the minimums I need to do mileage wise to train.

 

[Dallascisco]

I see a lack of protein in your diet.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

So for lean muscle mass estimating at 155 lbs (10% of 170 and rounding up) I should be eating 155 grams of protein/day correct?

 

[blinky8225]

Primary goal is to run marathons. I would rather have a faster marathon time than a totally jacked body, thus I don't want to bulk at all. I understand that my weight will increase with additional muscle mass, but I can live with that if I am happy with my body definition. Also, I can't drop running if I want to do marathons as I'm not much above the minimums I need to do mileage wise to train.

Hmm, you're in a bit of a pickle, then. I carry around 8-10% body fat depending on the measuring technique, and I have a very well-defined 6 pack (in fact, if the lighting is perfect, you make out an 8 pack). It's really surprising to me that you wouldn't already be pretty ripped at the same body fat percentage as me. My workout is pretty much all lifting, however, with a secondary focus on running, so I won't be running marathons anytime soon, but I can still do 10 miles.

You may want to consider this method of training: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-train-for-a-marathon/#axzz1qFkfa2m4. The guy qualified for the Olympics in marathon running and finished 4th in the Hawaii Ironman. The sprints will probably be very helpful. Sprinters are almost universally ripped. Also, it cuts down on the junk miles, which will let you incorporate some lifting into your routine. For what it's worth, I've heard that if you hit a plateau in distance running, a heavy lifting program can help you break through that plateau.

If you start lifting, and you're still not ripped, your problem is probably diet related. Again, you lack protein. Also, maybe your abs aren't showing because of bloat. Gluten intolerance and dairy intolerance are more common than you think. You never really know until you eliminate them for at least 2 weeks.

 

[Ventanni]

I ran into the very same issue a while back, as I am primarily a runner first, weight lifter second. Long distance running burns an obscene amount of calories, and your body will naturally convert just about anything into feeding those endurance levels, including your protein. Any remaining protein will be used to maintain your leg muscles, which doesn't leave a lot left for the rest of your body.

 

[billyb0b]

dude i'm the same height as you and float between 170-175 lbs. I'm 30. Just like others say, lift and suck down some protein. I run too but mix in some heavy lifting and protein and i have some mass and great definition (esp abs)

 

[RavenSEAL]

Run less and lift more. If you're at <10% body fat and don't look ripped, you must be pretty weak. Focus on squats, deadlifts, bench press, and chins. If you can squat and deadlift twice your body weight, you'll looked pretty ripped at 10% body fat. Perhaps, the measurement is wrong as well. Get calipers to double check.

What is your primary goal? Is it to get ripped or run marathons fast? If it's the former, you really need to change the way you exercise. Also, you could use a lot more protein in your diet.

+ 1

 

[Lamont Burns]

I would guess you're in fact NOT <10% BF. However since you are a runner you might just have zero LM in this area, which genetics can also be a real pain in the butt.

Without seeing your entire quad to see if you have striations which a person with <10 and a runner would have, it's all conjecture.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I would guess you're in fact NOT <10% BF. However since you are a runner you might just have zero LM in this area, which genetics can also be a real pain in the butt.

Without seeing your entire quad to see if you have striations which a person with <10 and a runner would have, it's all conjecture.

I can post pictures if that would help.

 

[surfsatwerk]

I can post pictures if that would help.

This pleases me.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

This pleases me.

You're a chubby chaser!?!?!? HOT!

 

[surfsatwerk]

You're a chubby chaser!?!?!? HOT!

 

[melchoir]

Higher bf% than you think, that's really the easiest and best explanation.

Either you have the muscle or you don't, and if you don't, you need to be even leaner for definition to show.

 

[blinky8225]

I'm guessing you look like the guy on the right. You may find this page helpful:
http://www.leighpeele.com/body-fat-pictures-and-percentages

 

[RbSX]

I'm guessing you look like the guy on the right. You may find this page helpful:
http://www.leighpeele.com/body-fat-pictures-and-percentages

Bingo.

There's runner/cyclist 10% and then there is resistance sport athlete 10%.

People don't understand the difference in methods.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I'm guessing you look like the guy on the right. You may find this page helpful:
http://www.leighpeele.com/body-fat-pictures-and-percentages

That's kind of a terrible picture though. On the left is, I believe, Shawn Crawford, an Olympic gold medalist in the 200m. On the right is some Joe Schmo who likely doesn't compete at such a level. Although I agree that muscle mass plays a huge component in aesthetics so 6'2", 170lbs is a bit light to have the "ideal" muscular body. I'm 5'8", 158lbs and I don't even have that body. I'd say it's time to bulk while completing a heavy weightlifting program.

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/07/30/magazine/803BODIES_3.html

^ Link to Shawn Crawford pic. It was used in a series of pictures comparing body types of elite athletes in an array of sports. Also, if you notice, it says his body fat percentage was measured at 4%. That's not fair comparing somebody who's actually probably around 10% body fat to somebody who's 4%, an elite athlete, and muscular.

Also, I'd like to point out that some research shows an AVERAGE of about 5% error in bod pod measurements (up to 15% error), as opposed to DEXA scans. Hydrostatic weighing used to be the gold standard, now DEXA scans are.

Article for your thought:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=175

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I took pictures this morning weighing 168.8, and will upload them tonight.

 

[surfsatwerk]

I took pictures this morning weighing 168.8, and will upload them tonight.

<.<

>.>

 

[Malfeas]

There is no need for pictures. You are simply running too much, your body is eating its own flesh. Your body adapts to the stresses you expose it to, and right now your body is looking exactly how you are treating it. Do what others have said, cut back on the running, and look into a beginner linear weightlifting program. How often do you run marathons? You can cut back on running until about a month out from a marathon and emphasize running over weightlifting, and then as soon as it is over switch back to a weightlifting emphasis.

 

[Miramonti]

'Ripped' refers to seeing the defining edges between muscles and muscle groups, which requires low body fat, which you have, but also muscularity. 6'2"/170 is pretty thin. Nothing to be ashamed of, you're probably a good runner, but if you want more noticeable muscles, you have to spend more time on them with weight training (and some good protein supplement imo), and less time running.

/edit: actually, I don't think you need to reduce your running, just do weight training on the major muscle groups on your days off. It will go a long way for your body type to give you a more toned look and round out your shoulders, chest, and back etc. imo. You'll definitely need to increase calories and protein if you do. If you want 'ripped' tho, you have to hit the weights harder to build more muscularity.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Bingo.

There's runner/cyclist 10% and then there is resistance sport athlete 10%.

People don't understand the difference in methods.

Yup this is basically where I'm at (on the right) and want to get more towards the picture on the left.

That's kind of a terrible picture though. On the left is, I believe, Shawn Crawford, an Olympic gold medalist in the 200m. On the right is some Joe Schmo who likely doesn't compete at such a level. Although I agree that muscle mass plays a huge component in aesthetics so 6'2", 170lbs is a bit light to have the "ideal" muscular body. I'm 5'8", 158lbs and I don't even have that body. I'd say it's time to bulk while completing a heavy weightlifting program.

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/07/30/magazine/803BODIES_3.html

^ Link to Shawn Crawford pic. It was used in a series of pictures comparing body types of elite athletes in an array of sports. Also, if you notice, it says his body fat percentage was measured at 4%. That's not fair comparing somebody who's actually probably around 10% body fat to somebody who's 4%, an elite athlete, and muscular.

Also, I'd like to point out that some research shows an AVERAGE of about 5% error in bod pod measurements (up to 15% error), as opposed to DEXA scans. Hydrostatic weighing used to be the gold standard, now DEXA scans are.

Article for your thought:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=175

So where would I need to be most likely (at 6'2") weight wise to get to that point? I'm guessing closer to 180 if it was just muscle gained. Also, what would be the way to get there without sacrificing running?

DEXA is most accurate, you're correct. I had forgotten about it. I think that 15% off on individuals is off though... Based off studies I've looked at. But I could be wrong.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

'Ripped' refers to seeing the defining edges between muscles and muscle groups, which requires low body fat, which you have, but also muscularity. 6'2"/170 is pretty thin. Nothing to be ashamed of, you're probably a good runner, but if you want more noticeable muscles, you have to spend more time on them with weight training (and some good protein supplement imo), and less time running.

/edit: actually, I don't think you need to reduce your running, just do weight training on the major muscle groups on your days off. It will go a long way for your body type to give you a more toned look and round out your shoulders, chest, and back etc. imo. You'll definitely need to increase calories and protein if you do. If you want 'ripped' tho, you have to hit the weights harder to build more muscularity.

Thanks, this is actually what I'm going for. I don't want to look stocky or really "ripped." I want defined muscles.

What I really am looking for is what workouts will accomplish the edit you made suggestions. Also, can they effectively be done with resistance bands or do I need to actually go to a gym (which I have access to, just don't want to deal with really)

 

[Miramonti]

Thanks, this is actually what I'm going for. I don't want to look stocky or really "ripped." I want defined muscles.

What I really am looking for is what workouts will accomplish the edit you made suggestions. Also, can they effectively be done with resistance bands or do I need to actually go to a gym (which I have access to, just don't want to deal with really)

Resistance bands can be a great place to start imo, and I'm sure a google will show you tons of ways you can use the ones you have to tone the major muscles/groups. I'd also recommend pullups, pushups, and situps, and also fwiw some shoulder shrugs to round the shoulders to the neck (good bang for your buck here. )

If you get more motivated along the way, you'll either outgrow the bands or just want to get more out of your efforts, and then you'll probably want to take advantage of the gym access you have and hit heavier weights.