No, I do not think it is okay to be detained and questioned for expressing a viewpoint.
If the police want to call me and ask me if I want to talk about why I expressed a view point and I can say "No thank you" and be on my way, that's fine and that's exactly what happened in this situation.
Anyone who forms an opinion on this matter without hearing the students presentation is an idiot.
/end thread.
/end thread.
RocksteadyDotNet
Diamond Member
- Jul 29, 2008
- 3,152
- 1
- 0
Jeez, you idiots need to calm down.
How about getting all the facts before saying this was out of line.
Maybe the kid made an ambigous statement like "I've got guns im my room right now and the goverment can't do shit about it."
And the teacher thinks he's talking about a room on campus.
If that was the case I can see why she might call the cops.
Or maybe she is just a douche and wanted to punish a kid she disagreed with.
The point is non of you know all the facts. So STFU.
How about getting all the facts before saying this was out of line.
Maybe the kid made an ambigous statement like "I've got guns im my room right now and the goverment can't do shit about it."
And the teacher thinks he's talking about a room on campus.
If that was the case I can see why she might call the cops.
Or maybe she is just a douche and wanted to punish a kid she disagreed with.
The point is non of you know all the facts. So STFU.
"Anyone who forms an opinion on this matter without hearing the students presentation is an idiot.
/end thread."
it's funny how even the slightest scent of anti-gun sentiment comes out, and the gun dogs are all over it like flies on shit, without even having the slightest idea what went down in that classroom
/end thread."
it's funny how even the slightest scent of anti-gun sentiment comes out, and the gun dogs are all over it like flies on shit, without even having the slightest idea what went down in that classroom
No shit. Hey guys, you know there's 26 other amendments to the US Constitution, right? Perhaps you should consider defending them as fervently as the 2nd?
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
- 38,416
- 4
- 0
Seriously... Look at all the pressure to redefine and restrict the 19th Amendment. We must defend a woman's right to vote!!
:roll:
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Lifer
- Jun 3, 2002
- 10,518
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Huh? How is carrying a loaded weapon not dangerous, you need to be babied on common sense or what?
rofl, welcome to 1776 buddy. Americans call the cops to report everything from murder to loud parties. There is nothing illegal about it. Inappropriate? Sure, if the guy just gave a neutral speech, then it was inappropriate to report him. Maybe the prof is hypersensitive to the Virginia Tech shootings, it's possible he overreacted. But it also wouldn't surprise me if he insinuated he had brought weapons on campus before (I don't know if it's permitted or not there). Or perhaps the guy just seemed like a wacko nutjob.
No, it really isn't. There is nothing illegal about what they did. It's barely inappropriate considering a stash of weapons was involved.
The term one uses is irrelevant, he had weapons, and I did mention them as registered.
I said it was a reasonable possibility, and it is. I could be wrong.
It was inappropriate if all the facts were presented. I just don't believe for a second that a prof would call the police for a pro-gun speech. It's possible, just not likely. It's not like this report has video of his speech, we don't know the exact content or how he actually spoke. I mean, if he was laughing manically while stroking his beard and displaying a classic "shifty eyes" mannerism, perhaps then you'd think sending the cops over there just to make sure is appropriate? :laugh:
Last time I checked suppressing speech was a first amendment issue, in fact I think I made the point earlier that what was wrong was having the police question someone because he expressed a belief in an idea. Yes, I read the thread because it had to do with guns, but I would like to clue you in on something, I am upset because people are ok with walking over the 1st amendment only because it had to do with guns. It does not matter if its the evil terrorists and the 4th amendment, or the evil guns rights people and the 1st, none of these amendments should be ok to throw away just because people are scared.
Also, I would be fine with the teacher forbidding him to talk about guns. Because I believe a teacher has the right and responsibility to control what goes on in their class. However, to involve the police, a government agency, in what amounts to intimidation of a student because of his viewpoint is wrong.
Again, I need to restate this, I only have the evidence given in the articles, some peolpe would like me to reserve judgement until I have all the facts, which would be great if I had access to all the facts somehow. However, other people seem to be willing to invent facts to justify the schools actions, and I think I can at least say that I feel going with the information known is at least slightly more reasonable than inventing information to make a judgement.
First
Lifer
- Jun 3, 2002
- 10,518
- 271
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Is this a serious question? No one can help you if you can't see the difference between being questioned about possessing firearms and being questioned about who you voted for. Clearly the former is a public safety issue, the later is not. I mean, you do realize that police routinely ask for proof of registration of guns when they visibly encounter individuals with weapons? You do realize this is pretty sane, standard policy, correct?
How is riding around in a steel encased shell, on top of a container of volatile chemicals that readily combust when exposed to sparks, that is driven by a large number of explosions in a small aluminum container not dangerous? Hmmmm, let me think that one through, gee I think it is not dangerous because I can look around and see millions of people doing it every day and none of them blow up. Lets take that brilliant logic and apply it to this question you posed? Millions of people carry weapons every day. Since they are so dangerous and its common sense, I am sure that you can find me some wonderful stories to back up your assertion that allowing concealed carry permit holders to carry their weapons on campus is dangerous. Please, find me ACTUAL REAL LIFE EXAMPLES, don't resort to low brow demeaning stereotypes of college students, if its dangerous you should be able to demonstrate the danger with real facts.
Yes, if there were other circumstances such as he made a threat, it would be justified, however I tried to do some searching, and I found a few other articles on the issue, and there is never any mention of a threat. Merely that people felt uncomfortable. Furthermore the actions of the school did actually result in a feeling of intimidation.
Just because he talked about guns does not make it ok to use the police to intimidate someone. Oh, and if you don't think the police calling you and asking you to come to the station is intimidating, would it be ok if we required every voter to go to the police station?
Extra linkage
The police did not encounter a person with a weapon and ask to see his registration, they received a call from a school, called him into the station looked up his records and then questioned him about where he kept the items in question. Because he gave a speech.
Try this little trick, replace "right to carry a gun" with "legalize marijuana." Would it be ok to call every person who gives a speech on legalizing weed into the station so they could be questioned about any possible illegal drug usage?
I think the disconnect comes because you think that he made threats, which if he did makes this all ok. If he did not make threats, all he did was express a viewpoint, than you can replace the viewpoint with any other viewpoint he might make, and the exact same treatment from the police should still make sense. I seriously doubt that you feel if he had given a speech about how we should adopt communism you would think it was ok for the police to call him.
Edit: Also, It is normally considered voter intimidation to have the police stationed outside of a polling place, so I believe the comparison should hold some water as it the police have been used to intimidate people into non-voting in the past.
Statistically people who legally carry concealed guns are involved in very few crimes.
Whenever we get morons like Ward Churchill spouting bullshit in academia we hear about schools are supposed to be about freedom of ideas and the ability to express those ideas without fear. Yet, when someone exposes a conservative idea they get the cops called on them. This is intimidation without a doubt by a professor with an agenda. As others have said if this student would have talked about legalizing drugs there would have been no problem at all.
And in your mind, it seems that every gun owner is a sinner. You do not have all the facts either.
Answer my question from earlier, by the way.
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
- 0
It was directed at kneejerk31 for his choice to stab all liberals because he didn't finish CC...
One of the first replies here was from him and it was just fcking retarded
And NOPE.. all are not sinners.. but people jump all over this story like they know what the fuck is going on and anytime it might involve a citizen who is concerned about gun use ... all the gun rights people are willing to call in thee cavalry without even knowing the facts..
the prof went to TWO HIGHER UPS AND then to the police.. THE POLICE CHOSE to follow through on it..
Why is it so hard for people to even respect some peoples fears of others gun use? Have you ever met a gun owner is a fcktard.. shit.. we had a CIC who was eternally punchdrunk
In regards to the first part, your comment is just as foolish sounding as his. After all, there was nothing to indicate Wahlberg's voting preferences, and not all supporters of CCC are neocons or conservatives.
For the second part, should we respect irrational fears? Never touched a gun, never even see one except on a cop's hip, your only experience being the news stories which are never positive about guns... you've been told to fear guns, and/or you fear the unknown. I consider that an irrational fear. Now, of course, we don't know the story of all of those students... maybe Jimmy in the front row had his father shot in front of him when he was six, that's at least a rational cause for fear of firearms.
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Lifer
- Jun 3, 2002
- 10,518
- 271
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I cannot help you if you do not see the danger of carrying a loaded weapon. You're seriously out to lunch if it does not occur to you that it's dangerous, even just the potential threat of a weapon is disconcerting in the extreme on a college campus (notice I am not referring to concealed weapons on the streets). And no, driving a car serves a whole other purpose, transportation. Carrying a concealed weapon onto college campuses is just stupid, it doesn't happen often and there's really basically zero reason for it beyond paranoia.
Feeling intimidated isn't against the law and, frankly, it's a reasonable price to pay if the prof honestly thought the guy was even just a little bit disturbing. The upside is that he saves lives, the downside is a gun-nut complaining.
Are you honestly splitting hairs over being called into a police station to show proof of gun registration and being cornered by the police in a public area to show proof of gun registration? Seriously, you want to go down that road? :roll:
Awful comparison. Short of forcibly injecting someone with marijuana with a needle, a highly uncommon occurrence, no clear thinking person can compare that relatively harmless drug/non-threat to someone carrying a concealed, loaded weapon. Even knowing someone is carrying a weapon on a campus should scare the hell out of sane people. This isn't the 1770's.
No, your analogies were just terrible, didn't make any sense. It is commonly accepted practice to drive cars, it provides an irreplaceable form of transportation (as does public transportation), and people accept the risk of those things. People do not commonly accept the risk of a student carrying a loaded gun to class. And this is just a wild guess, but I'm pretty sure most universities, conservative or liberal in affiliation, don't view students with loaded weapons on campus the same way they view students with automobiles and weed. Just a wild guess. :laugh:
You can't conceal the belief communism in the form of physical matter and use it to kill or threaten people the way you can with a gun. Again, your analogies are just awful.
Lord almighty.
Thankfully the gun-grabbers in this thread are not even supported by the most left-wing nutjobs this country has to offer in congress (thankfully Dennis Kucinich has no power). Nanci Pelosi shot down the most recent attempt to curb a fundamental American right, so that should tell you something.
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